[quote]debraD wrote:
I only ever crash from sugars when I’m not doing anything, like if I get into some dessert after lunch and I’m sitting at my desk. If I go for a walk within 20 minutes of eating it, I don’t have any effects. I just assumed the exercise was affecting my blood sugar / insulin and managing things more effectively.[/quote]
Interesting point.
S
I can see this being useful for a fatloss diet, as for gaining mass, it contradicts the info and studies i’ve read. I have no problem with pre-workout carbs, especially if glycogen storages are not topped up. But why you would avoid carbs workout is beyond me, as they seem like the optimal thing to be ingesting. Resistance training increases glucose uptake by muscle cells, and NOT fat cells, which is why I avoid carbs early in the day (when both muscles and fat cells are most receptive to insulin and carbs).
However, especially if you’re training in the evening, when glucose uptake into BOTH fat and muscle cells is low. By throwing resistance training into the mix, you’re getting the biggest bang for your buck by eating carbs post workout. (little effect on fat cells, but big on muscles). If you eat enough carbs during that period, you’re glycogen storages should be full enough, and provide you with plenty of energy for the next days workout without ingesting any pre-workout carbs. I do not disagree that carbs blunt the fat burning process, but i guess it all depends on when u’re training. I personally choose to burn fat in the morning and build muscle in the evening, as I feel it is the most efficient way of doing things.
[quote]Fulldeplex wrote:
Interesting… Do you change the amount (120 grams) of PreWO carbs when your in a fat loss fase?
[/quote]
It’s the absolute LAST place I take carbs from as a contest draws nearer. Even a couple of weeks out, I’m still having my FINiBARs Preworkout. Admittedly not always 3 (on days where I’m not hitting weights, but only doing some interval work I usually stay at 100g for the day), but ALWAYS some carbs before.
S
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]Fulldeplex wrote:
Interesting… Do you change the amount (120 grams) of PreWO carbs when your in a fat loss fase?
[/quote]
It’s the absolute LAST place I take carbs from as a contest draws nearer. Even a couple of weeks out, I’m still having my FINiBARs Preworkout. Admittedly not always 3 (on days where I’m not hitting weights, but only doing some interval work I usually stay at 100g for the day), but ALWAYS some carbs before.
S[/quote]
Thanks for the info Stu! I apreciate it.
Last one: Did you ever tried to go months without carbs? (like this Mark McManus mentions) What was your experience?
Edit: I know you said you ‘ALWAYS’ take carbs before, but you somehow reached the conclusion that preWO carbs work better than no carbs before, so I assume you tested it a while back.
I already posted this study in this thread, but I think I need to clearify. IMO it is an interesting study when viewed in combination with the Pasquale’s article. Researchers found that one week of low carb/high fat eating produced a more anabolic hormone profile than high carb/lower fat. This result was found eventhough insulin dropped like a rock. The muscles produced significantly more IGF-1 on low carb/high fat. The subjects did not exercise.
see: Endocrine Press | Endocrine Society
There are some studies that show subjects gaining more muscle on a low carb diet while exercising so I guess there is something to it.
But thanks to the structure of this study you could say that it shows the benefits of the Anabolic Diet, not just low carb. Also there is no reason to conclude anything about PreWO carbs by looking at the results, because the subjects did not exercise.
So…not much to go on, but still interesting IMO, because it does explains how low carb(/high fat) could be more anabolic than high carb.
Additional to last post:
Muscle protein synthesis (only FSR) almost doubled during the low carb week, while breakdown only increased by 20%. This might have been caused by the higher protein content of the low carb diet compared to the high carb diet, but I doubt this because the high carb diet only lasted two days. Too bad it is not clear what the subjects ate before the study…
[quote]MODOK wrote:
Flawed study is flawed.
Don’t know about the study referenced in the OP, but the two studies linked under it both have a tiny n. However, I have no doubt that low carb pwo nd peri- wo formulas are very effective. I know from personal experience. Both protocols produce very good results in whole body protein synthesis. If you read the original studies published in the Journal of Ex Phys that Surge was based on, the P + C drink was compared against a C only drink and water, not against a P only drink. It certainly an individual and a goal-driven decision, but I don’t think you lose anything at all by losing the high GI carbs in your PWO drink. Remember, protein by itself in a vacuum also produces a nice insulin response.
So if you are carb sensitive and/or looking to improve body comp, straight protein peri/post wo is probably the way to go.[/quote]
I agree, a tiny n is a problem in most sports nutrition studies, which is a shame IMO and makes it difficult to conclude anything.
Are you saying that also preWO carbs don’t add to muscle building or am I mistaken?
Im a newb so take anything I say with a grain of salt but I believe everyone is different. I think a balanced meal about an 1hr pre and 1 hr post workout is the best way to go. pre workout pasta and meat or shake. post workout rice and steak or shake. Nutrient Timing is a great resource for all this since thats where the most reliable studies that argue both sides come from. I dont think anyone should be downing a 100g of table sugar pre or post workout but a balanced approach is best. Every bodybuilder eats a standard bb meal pre workout (high protein and high carbs) and does the same post workout. I am fairly lean and respond well to carbohydrates but I cant imagine downing a 100g of glucose in liquid form pre workout. I would probably die.
[quote]Elite0423 wrote:
I would probably die.
[/quote]
For sure. Number 4 leading cause of death in skinny newbs in gyms across the world.
Steer clear of sugar people.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]Elite0423 wrote:
I would probably die.
[/quote]
For sure. Number 4 leading cause of death in skinny newbs in gyms across the world.
Steer clear of sugar people. [/quote]
Thanks for the tip Bonez.
[quote]SkyNett wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]Elite0423 wrote:
I would probably die.
[/quote]
For sure. Number 4 leading cause of death in skinny newbs in gyms across the world.
Steer clear of sugar people. [/quote]
Thanks for the tip Bonez. [/quote]
I’ve been drinking a little over 100g of sugar from a powder sports drinks for a while now, I guess I’m one lucky guy
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Just goes to show…
The first rule of nutrient timing is: total calories and macronutrient composition are more important than nutrient timing.
The second rule of nutrient timing is: total calories and macronutrient composition are far more important than nutrient timing.[/quote]
It makes me so happy to read shit like this. I mean, I’ve slowly come to the conclusion that is the case, at least for myself, but it’s nice to know I’m not crazy and just imagining the results.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Just goes to show…
The first rule of nutrient timing is: total calories and macronutrient composition are more important than nutrient timing.
The second rule of nutrient timing is: total calories and macronutrient composition are far more important than nutrient timing.[/quote]
It makes me so happy to read shit like this. I mean, I’ve slowly come to the conclusion that is the case, at least for myself, but it’s nice to know I’m not crazy and just imagining the results.[/quote]
No, you are crazy and imagine things, you just got lucky on this one.
~
I’ve been getting all my carbs pre-workout and having a protein/vegetable meal about an hour after my lift, its been working great.
[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
I’ve been getting all my carbs pre-workout and having a protein/vegetable meal about an hour after my lift, its been working great.
[/quote]
Likewise. I eat it a little sooner than 60 min, but the composition is the same (+ coconut oil for the quick MCTs based on Bill Roberts’ advice).
[quote]Elite0423 wrote:
Im a newb…I am extremely skinny and I would probably die.
[/quote]
[quote]Fulldeplex wrote:
Edit: I know you said you ‘ALWAYS’ take carbs before, but you somehow reached the conclusion that preWO carbs work better than no carbs before, so I assume you tested it a while back. [/quote]
Ah,… almost missed this -lol.
There were times in the past when I would think that by having a P+F meal before a workout that I would have less fuel readily available for my training, and as such ‘might’ somehow burn more stored energy in the process. What I didn’t realize was that by having a more productive training session, accomplished with a P+C feeding preworkout (whether weights or interval work), I would burn through more stored energy in the long run simply by maintaining more muscle as a result. This is truly where people fail to see the big picture 
S
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]Fulldeplex wrote:
Edit: I know you said you ‘ALWAYS’ take carbs before, but you somehow reached the conclusion that preWO carbs work better than no carbs before, so I assume you tested it a while back. [/quote]
Ah,… almost missed this -lol.
There were times in the past when I would think that by having a P+F meal before a workout that I would have less fuel readily available for my training, and as such ‘might’ somehow burn more stored energy in the process. What I didn’t realize was that by having a more productive training session, accomplished with a P+C feeding preworkout (whether weights or interval work), I would burn through more stored energy in the long run simply by maintaining more muscle as a result. This is truly where people fail to see the big picture
S[/quote]
Thanks Stu, I wondered if you were still going to answer. 
It is funny to see that you and MODOK have different experiences with PreWO carbs, but you both know what your talking about.
So if skipping carbs Post workout id a good thing, how about fat post workout? It seems as if carbs use to be ok after a workout but fat should be avoided.
Any new info on the effects of protein and fat post workout instead of a P+C meal?
I know he’s not BBer but Jim Wendler says he doesnt eat/cant eat for 2-3hours after training.
I read somewhere, not TOOOO LONG ago that vitamins, if taken immediately post workout, would negate the benefits of excersise in relation to free radicals.
But this is stuff i’ve read in the last few months and failed to save links etc so youll have to take my world for it.
H
[quote]bad bowtie wrote:
So if skipping carbs Post workout id a good thing, how about fat post workout? It seems as if carbs use to be ok after a workout but fat should be avoided.
Any new info on the effects of protein and fat post workout instead of a P+C meal?[/quote]
This.