[quote]Cortes wrote:
Try not using porn for one month and see what happens. Since you are completely NOT addicted, this should be the simplest thing in the world, right? Anyone willing to do this? [/quote]
I would try it, but after January 1.
Because that’s when my subscription to I Feel Myself.com runs out. Also, Bang You Later.com. I’d hate to waste the money.
[quote]groo wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]MattyXL wrote:
“No longer engaging people who aren’t interested in reading the links and just want to spout their preconceived biases.”
Who used to be extremely addicted to porn, genius. I’m glad you assume I’m a saint, though. Thanks.
It seems that your heavy handed bias towards the idea of any porn being wrong comes from personal experience and feeling your own experience will not be genuine to you but to anyone who indulges in masturbating to porn. Your responses to Beefeater were where you chose not to debate with him about the topic is when I believe you were stonewalling. Not only you but the other guy who is agrees with you.
[/quote]
I am biased. So are you. I doubt there are too many taking part in this thread who do not have a fairly strong opinion one way or the other, and that’s fine.
However, the points you are noting are examples of frustration on my part with being charged with answering a bunch of questions that are covered in vast detail in the sites connected to the links that were provided on the first page.
Again, I have not been saying EVERYONE who looks at porn is going to automatically become addicted. For what I hope is the last time here is my point:
It is unhealthy in general. So are donuts, but they taste friggin good and not everyone who eats one will turn into a 300lb type II diabetic.
This type of porn IS addictive for certain guys, and they DO need help and they DO need to understand what is going on.
Not sure how this constitutes “stonewalling.” When did asking people to do their research and to quit arguing from assumption become “stonewalling?”
And I have been more willing than almost anyone on this thread to engage in discussion about this. [/quote]
However, the points you are noting are examples of frustration on my part with being charged with answering a bunch of questions that are covered in vast detail in the sites connected to the links that were provided on the first page.
On this point only. This is sort of your burden if you are presenting something as fact no matter the subject matter. If you simply want to refer people to a site and not defend or discuss a position on anything you can do that. When you fly the flag for any subject seems a bit weak to say well its all true if you did your reading of sites x,y, and z it makes it so.
[/quote]
Sure, I hear you. But when the entire thread is based upon one of these links to begin with, is it too much to ask that someone at least devote the 15 damn minutes to watching the video at hand so that we can have an honest discussion about it?
No. I think from our time on PWI you should know that I’m no book burner. In fact, I’d be willing to bet that I have a more open-minded idea about drug use in general than a few of the people I’ve been arguing with. I am not ANTI-everything by any means. I just think that there are a lot of pitfalls that well meaning people happen to fall into, and this is often exacerbated by popular bias and common “knowledge.” I want people to know what they may be getting themselves into, because there is no shortage of porn glamorization, but I’ll bet this is the first time a lot of guys have even heard about this being an actual, real problem for a fairly large community of people.
If pornography affects dopamine release and saturates those receptors in the same or very similar manner to real sex, then drug analogies are perfectly apt.
I am very happily married and have nothing but the highest opinion of women and people in general. You’d be hard pressed to find a bigger people lover than I am. Again I think you know this about me, having known me for a while on that soul-baring PWI. So while you may have a point here, I don’t consider myself to fall under its umbrella.
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
Try not using porn for one month and see what happens. Since you are completely NOT addicted, this should be the simplest thing in the world, right? Anyone willing to do this? [/quote]
I would try it, but after January 1.
Because that’s when my subscription to I Feel Myself.com runs out. Also, Bang You Later.com. I’d hate to waste the money.
[/quote]
Lol. Ok doc. Let me know if you make a New Year’s resolution out of it.
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
Try not using porn for one month and see what happens. Since you are completely NOT addicted, this should be the simplest thing in the world, right? Anyone willing to do this? [/quote]
I would try it, but after January 1.
Because that’s when my subscription to I Feel Myself.com runs out. Also, Bang You Later.com. I’d hate to waste the money.
[/quote]
I’ve done it.
After the porn-free month passes, the first few times you look at porn you cum bucket loads.
What if i watch people fucking in real life?
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]groo wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]MattyXL wrote:
“No longer engaging people who aren’t interested in reading the links and just want to spout their preconceived biases.”
Who used to be extremely addicted to porn, genius. I’m glad you assume I’m a saint, though. Thanks.
It seems that your heavy handed bias towards the idea of any porn being wrong comes from personal experience and feeling your own experience will not be genuine to you but to anyone who indulges in masturbating to porn. Your responses to Beefeater were where you chose not to debate with him about the topic is when I believe you were stonewalling. Not only you but the other guy who is agrees with you.
[/quote]
I am biased. So are you. I doubt there are too many taking part in this thread who do not have a fairly strong opinion one way or the other, and that’s fine.
However, the points you are noting are examples of frustration on my part with being charged with answering a bunch of questions that are covered in vast detail in the sites connected to the links that were provided on the first page.
Again, I have not been saying EVERYONE who looks at porn is going to automatically become addicted. For what I hope is the last time here is my point:
It is unhealthy in general. So are donuts, but they taste friggin good and not everyone who eats one will turn into a 300lb type II diabetic.
This type of porn IS addictive for certain guys, and they DO need help and they DO need to understand what is going on.
Not sure how this constitutes “stonewalling.” When did asking people to do their research and to quit arguing from assumption become “stonewalling?”
And I have been more willing than almost anyone on this thread to engage in discussion about this. [/quote]
However, the points you are noting are examples of frustration on my part with being charged with answering a bunch of questions that are covered in vast detail in the sites connected to the links that were provided on the first page.
On this point only. This is sort of your burden if you are presenting something as fact no matter the subject matter. If you simply want to refer people to a site and not defend or discuss a position on anything you can do that. When you fly the flag for any subject seems a bit weak to say well its all true if you did your reading of sites x,y, and z it makes it so.
[/quote]
Sure, I hear you. But when the entire thread is based upon one of these links to begin with, is it too much to ask that someone at least devote the 15 damn minutes to watching the video at hand so that we can have an honest discussion about it?
No. I think from our time on PWI you should know that I’m no book burner. In fact, I’d be willing to bet that I have a more open-minded idea about drug use in general than a few of the people I’ve been arguing with. I am not ANTI-everything by any means. I just think that there are a lot of pitfalls that well meaning people happen to fall into, and this is often exacerbated by popular bias and common “knowledge.” I want people to know what they may be getting themselves into, because there is no shortage of porn glamorization, but I’ll bet this is the first time a lot of guys have even heard about this being an actual, real problem for a fairly large community of people.
If pornography affects dopamine release and saturates those receptors in the same or very similar manner to real sex, then drug analogies are perfectly apt.
I am very happily married and have nothing but the highest opinion of women and people in general. You’d be hard pressed to find a bigger people lover than I am. Again I think you know this about me, having known me for a while on that soul-baring PWI. So while you may have a point here, I don’t consider myself to fall under its umbrella. [/quote]
No the last point for certain wasn’t addressed at you. I just saw a few posts over the last night where people seem to bemoaning the coldness of women and the difficulty of meeting them.
That just struck me as perhaps part of the issue for some guys.
Interestingly enough I more or less did this experiment while moving. I cut off my cable/internet for a little over a month, but I’d be a poor control because I think the stressors of working a full time job then coming home for another 8 hours of packing cleaning etc effected me more than not having any porn.
I will say this for certain. I read a lot more when I don’t tv/internet hooked up. Much of what I read anymore hasn’t a lot of value for lack of a better word but I still have a bias thinking that reading is inherently more productive and engaging than tv or the internet, but that is just an opinion.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
Yes. Please.
All I ask is that anyone who wants to pepper us with questions first read the linked pages and get a decent understanding of what this is about.
Also, I guess I still need to further clarify: Go back and look at what I wrote on page one. I did not write anything to the effect that anyone who looks at porn is going to immediately slip down the side of the pitcher plant and never escape. I did not say that.
What I said what that I believe pornography to be inherently unhealthy. I do not believe that there is anything good to be gained from pornography. Can you indulge in it every once in a while and come out unscathed? Maybe. But you can argue the same of cocaine. If I am wrong about this, then I want someone to tell me exactly how they would consider masturbating to hard core pornography to be an inherently healthy activity.
I’m getting a bit tired of having to defend myself against claims that were not made by me. [/quote]
Ok, I agree I wasn’t doing a great job. I went back and watched the video.
The guy’s main premise is that watching Internet porn might result in the following conditions to some degree:
1.) numbed pleasure response to other activities/stimuli
2.) hyper-reactivity to porn
3.) willpower erosion
4.) ED
5.) Mental issues (anxiety, depression etc.)
There seems to be little reason to argue against the fact that if you take it to the extreme (jacking off for 6h a day or so) will lead to some of the above conditions.
However, your main point is that everyone will suffer to SOME extent from these conditions even in low to moderate porn consumption. Correct?
I can’t easily reject that hypothesis but I don’t think you can provide some good, concrete evidence either. Your claim is certainly more extreme than mine and Matt’s. [/quote]
NO THIS IS NOT MY MAIN POINT!!!
Look a couple of posts up.
The porn is unhealthy point that you guys are insisting upon beating my over the head with is a side point, but let me ask you a question:
Let’s say you had an 11 year old son. Would you encourage him to watch porn under any circumstances? [/quote]
Not entirely sure what your point is then.
I tried to actually go into detail about / understand WHY porn “is unhealthy in general” in your opinion. If you are sincere then you need to qualify why it is bad even in low and moderate use. What is it, if not a mix of the factors I mentioned above?
Simply arguing that because watching porn and jacking off is pleasurable (dopamine-mediated) and hence people like to do it on a regular basis, it’s unhealthy seems odd. Why is the pleasure (say dopamine release) I get from it worse than having fun with my friends or going to the gym?
The research only suggests that EXCESSIVE porn use fucks you up similar to EXCESSIVE drug use. Nobody has a problem with that. Sticking with the drug analogy, I think you will have a hard time showing that railing a line of cocaine once every month is actually bad for you (unhealthy).
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
Try not using porn for one month and see what happens. Since you are completely NOT addicted, this should be the simplest thing in the world, right? Anyone willing to do this? [/quote]
I would try it, but after January 1.
Because that’s when my subscription to I Feel Myself.com runs out. Also, Bang You Later.com. I’d hate to waste the money.
[/quote]
I’ve done it.
After the porn-free month passes, the first few times you look at porn you cum bucket loads.
[/quote]
Okay, I just spit beer on my screen.
[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
What if i watch people fucking in real life?
[/quote]
You grow a second dick. d(^=^)b
But you can’t use it. (._.)
I’ll have to get back to this thread tomorrow, guys. Big day at my school tomorrow and I need to get some sleep.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]MattyXL wrote:
“No longer engaging people who aren’t interested in reading the links and just want to spout their preconceived biases.”
Who used to be extremely addicted to porn, genius. I’m glad you assume I’m a saint, though. Thanks.
It seems that your heavy handed bias towards the idea of any porn being wrong comes from personal experience and feeling your own experience will not be genuine to you but to anyone who indulges in masturbating to porn. Your responses to Beefeater were where you chose not to debate with him about the topic is when I believe you were stonewalling. Not only you but the other guy who is agrees with you.
[/quote]
I am biased. So are you. I doubt there are too many taking part in this thread who do not have a fairly strong opinion one way or the other, and that’s fine.
However, the points you are noting are examples of frustration on my part with being charged with answering a bunch of questions that are covered in vast detail in the sites connected to the links that were provided on the first page.
Again, I have not been saying EVERYONE who looks at porn is going to automatically become addicted. For what I hope is the last time here is my point:
It is unhealthy in general. So are donuts, but they taste friggin good and not everyone who eats one will turn into a 300lb type II diabetic.
This type of porn IS addictive for certain guys, and they DO need help and they DO need to understand what is going on.
Not sure how this constitutes “stonewalling.” When did asking people to do their research and to quit arguing from assumption become “stonewalling?”
And I have been more willing than almost anyone on this thread to engage in discussion about this. [/quote]
I gave you the example of what I consider you to be stonewalling when you refused to engage Beefeater in a debate over what he stated. But that’s neither here nor there. From what I gathered from your posts I feel you are stating porn…in any amount is detrimental. I gave my opinion and used my experiences with it to show how it has not adversely effected me or my close relationships and I’ve been whacking off for over 20 years! In fact I believe porn can be used as an outlet to endulge in fantasies that would be detrimental if it occurred in reality.
[quote]MattyXL wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]MattyXL wrote:
“No longer engaging people who aren’t interested in reading the links and just want to spout their preconceived biases.”
Who used to be extremely addicted to porn, genius. I’m glad you assume I’m a saint, though. Thanks.
It seems that your heavy handed bias towards the idea of any porn being wrong comes from personal experience and feeling your own experience will not be genuine to you but to anyone who indulges in masturbating to porn. Your responses to Beefeater were where you chose not to debate with him about the topic is when I believe you were stonewalling. Not only you but the other guy who is agrees with you.
[/quote]
I am biased. So are you. I doubt there are too many taking part in this thread who do not have a fairly strong opinion one way or the other, and that’s fine.
However, the points you are noting are examples of frustration on my part with being charged with answering a bunch of questions that are covered in vast detail in the sites connected to the links that were provided on the first page.
Again, I have not been saying EVERYONE who looks at porn is going to automatically become addicted. For what I hope is the last time here is my point:
It is unhealthy in general. So are donuts, but they taste friggin good and not everyone who eats one will turn into a 300lb type II diabetic.
This type of porn IS addictive for certain guys, and they DO need help and they DO need to understand what is going on.
Not sure how this constitutes “stonewalling.” When did asking people to do their research and to quit arguing from assumption become “stonewalling?”
And I have been more willing than almost anyone on this thread to engage in discussion about this. [/quote]
I gave you the example of what I consider you to be stonewalling when you refused to engage Beefeater in a debate over what he stated. But that’s neither here nor there. From what I gathered from your posts I feel you are stating porn…in any amount is detrimental. I gave my opinion and used my experiences with it to show how it has not adversely effected me or my close relationships and I’ve been whacking off for over 20 years! In fact I believe porn can be used as an outlet to endulge in fantasies that would be detrimental if it occurred in reality. [/quote]
Thing is, I said I DID NOT stop debating with Beefeater. Go back and look at page three. I refused to entertain further discussion about something that was fully covered in the first page. We moved beyond that. If that’s what you consider stonewalling I think your parameters are overly inclusive.
As for the other stuff, we are going in circles, but nobody has answered my question: Would you recommend hard core pornography to your pubescent 11 year old son? If not, why not?
[quote]Cortes wrote:
As for the other stuff, we are going in circles, but nobody has answered my question: Would you recommend hard core pornography to your pubescent 11 year old son? If not, why not? [/quote]
No, and I wouldn’t recommend driving to him either. He’s not old enough.
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
As for the other stuff, we are going in circles, but nobody has answered my question: Would you recommend hard core pornography to your pubescent 11 year old son? If not, why not? [/quote]
No, and I wouldn’t recommend driving to him either. He’s not old enough.[/quote]
So it could be dangerous or harmful?
[quote]Cortes wrote:
Would you encourage him to watch porn under any circumstances? [/quote]
encourage? no.
But, with a boy, the sex & porn conversation is a lot easier than the drugs conversation.
And seeing as there are kids my son’s age out stealing cars, selling drugs and carrying firearms near where I live, I’ll take him home rubbinga few out over that anyday.
That being said:
Porn conversation is about respecting women and how those movies aren’t real life. Don’t act like that (unless she asks for it, but I didn’t bother to tell him that part). Sex is about love and babies, blah blah blah.
The sex conversation is super easy, he sees how much work his sister is, and we gave him a VD book, lol.
Having these conversations with my daughter in 10-12 years, won’t be as easy for me. I think I’ll just chain her to livingroom after age 9, until about 40… 
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
Would you encourage him to watch porn under any circumstances? [/quote]
encourage? no.
But, with a boy, the sex & porn conversation is a lot easier than the drugs conversation.
And seeing as there are kids my son’s age out stealing cars, selling drugs and carrying firearms near where I live, I’ll take him home rubbinga few out over that anyday.
That being said:
Porn conversation is about respecting women and how those movies aren’t real life. Don’t act like that (unless she asks for it, but I didn’t bother to tell him that part). Sex is about love and babies, blah blah blah.
The sex conversation is super easy, he sees how much work his sister is, and we gave him a VD book, lol.
Having these conversations with my daughter in 10-12 years, won’t be as easy for me. I think I’ll just chain her to livingroom after age 9, until about 40…
[/quote]
Right, we tread lightly in these situations because there is something inherently different about them than, say, just watching too much TV or playing video games for too long.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
As for the other stuff, we are going in circles, but nobody has answered my question: Would you recommend hard core pornography to your pubescent 11 year old son? If not, why not? [/quote]
No, and I wouldn’t recommend driving to him either. He’s not old enough.[/quote]
So it could be dangerous or harmful? [/quote]
Sure, but that is the simple answer. It is more because he is not mentally developed enough. Oddly enough my dad started teaching me to drive and I found his porn stash at around this age. He was however both a fantastic and horrible influence.
The first “porn” I ever saw was some old magazines my dad had hidden. I was too young to even know what it was so I made the mistake of asking my dad, then that was the end of the magazines before I even had a chance to use them. Luckily I found his vhs collection but that was about 10 years later, slightly better than dialup internet at the time.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
Would you encourage him to watch porn under any circumstances? [/quote]
encourage? no.
But, with a boy, the sex & porn conversation is a lot easier than the drugs conversation.
And seeing as there are kids my son’s age out stealing cars, selling drugs and carrying firearms near where I live, I’ll take him home rubbinga few out over that anyday.
That being said:
Porn conversation is about respecting women and how those movies aren’t real life. Don’t act like that (unless she asks for it, but I didn’t bother to tell him that part). Sex is about love and babies, blah blah blah.
The sex conversation is super easy, he sees how much work his sister is, and we gave him a VD book, lol.
Having these conversations with my daughter in 10-12 years, won’t be as easy for me. I think I’ll just chain her to livingroom after age 9, until about 40…
[/quote]
Right, we tread lightly in these situations because there is something inherently different about them than, say, just watching too much TV or playing video games for too long. [/quote]
Yes, but we have never made a bid deal out of sex, love, nudity or any of that. It isn’t high on his radar. If boobs were in a movie, we basically ignored it. We went out of our way to make sure that sex wasn’t something he defined his life by, but rather a wonderful activity he enjoyed with someone he loves when he is ready.
Drugs is harder because they are a huge deal, and we need to communicate that he needs to not do it for himself, while not pushing him towards them if he feels rebelious or whatever.
Drugs scare me with my kids, sex & porn, not so much with the boy, with my daughter, sex scares the living shit out of me. More because I don’t want her to have low self esteme, not because I don’t want her to enjoy a healthly sex life.