Porn Addiction

[MattyXL]

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
I think many of us have fantasies that may not be inherently healthy to live out in real life, with pornography I get to indulge in it safely again understanding that this would not be a good choice in reality but as a fantasy with porn as visual stimulation being performed by consenting actors.

Again been jerking off for 25 years and understand the role that porn plays and that there is a clear difference in porn and reality.[/quote]

To that note, I find that my girlfriend, while quite high in libido, does not hold a candle to mine.

Do I cheat on her to satisfy my urges, or do I spank it to a bit of good old fashioned lesbian porn?[/quote]

I believe the healthy choice would be the latter, but if porn is bad you have no choice and would have to choose not being satisfied.

[MattyXL]

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Man it sure as hell seems that anyone disagreeing with the point of view that pornography is not as damaging as they believe it to be gets stonewalled and labeled as someone that will not intelligently debate the topic.

I watch porn, and masturbate to it a few times a week, I have sex with my wife often, I masturbate to my wife often, I masturbate w/o porn often. I watch porn with my wife once in a while, we have a healthy sex life. Porn has been part of my normal behavior since I was 13. I understand what is fantasy and what should be left as so, I understand that porn isn’t reality and treat it as so.

I understand that too much of anything may lead to adverse reactions. Including having no sexual outlet at all, before marriage I have had some sexual dry spells, and I thank god I was able to masturbate to porn and to my imagination because without it I was an asshole.

Why does everything have to be so cut and dry, not much in life is. [/quote]

I’m no expert, but would think the variety you describe “protects” you from letting the “porn circuit” you’ve mapped in your head from getting strong enough to cause you problems, at least for now.[/quote]

Well I would agree if all I did was flog my dolphin and prefer it over actual real sexual interactions then yeah I would be going down a slippery slope.

[infinite_shore]

[quote]Cortes wrote:
Yes. Please.

All I ask is that anyone who wants to pepper us with questions first read the linked pages and get a decent understanding of what this is about.

Also, I guess I still need to further clarify: Go back and look at what I wrote on page one. I did not write anything to the effect that anyone who looks at porn is going to immediately slip down the side of the pitcher plant and never escape. I did not say that.

What I said what that I believe pornography to be inherently unhealthy. I do not believe that there is anything good to be gained from pornography. Can you indulge in it every once in a while and come out unscathed? Maybe. But you can argue the same of cocaine. If I am wrong about this, then I want someone to tell me exactly how they would consider masturbating to hard core pornography to be an inherently healthy activity.

I’m getting a bit tired of having to defend myself against claims that were not made by me. [/quote]

Ok, I agree I wasn’t doing a great job. I went back and watched the video.

The guy’s main premise is that watching Internet porn might result in the following conditions to some degree:

1.) numbed pleasure response to other activities/stimuli
2.) hyper-reactivity to porn
3.) willpower erosion
4.) ED
5.) Mental issues (anxiety, depression etc.)

There seems to be little reason to argue against the fact that if you take it to the extreme (jacking off for 6h a day or so) will lead to some of the above conditions.

However, your main point is that everyone will suffer to SOME extent from these conditions even in low to moderate porn consumption. Correct?

I can’t easily reject that hypothesis but I don’t think you can provide some good, concrete evidence either. Your claim is certainly more extreme than mine and Matt’s.

[MattyXL]

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

There seems to be little reason to argue against the fact that if you take it to the extreme (jacking off for 6h a day or so) will lead to some of the above conditions.

However, your main point is that everyone will suffer to SOME extent from these conditions even in low to moderate porn consumption. Correct?

I can’t easily reject that hypothesis but I don’t think you can provide some good, concrete evidence either. Your claim is certainly more extreme than mine and Matt’s. [/quote]

I agree with this totally

[cstratton2]

its to say in at least the most minor of effects there can be some alterations maybe just not serious enough to pick up on at first… It is like they mentioned about the fish in the water. You really do not know how much or in what ways it effects you until you stop using it yourself, If you are so inclined to see if it had any effect on you then stop looking at it for a while make the necessary changes and adjustments and see if anything changes for yourself, another large factor at play is the fact that you both are older then the current generation that is more severely affected since high speed internet did not exist when you were a young teenager… Either way the only sure fire answer is to stop the activity and find for yourself an answer.

[Dr_Pangloss]

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
There seems to be little reason to argue against the fact that if you take it to the extreme (jacking off for 6h a day or so) will lead to some of the above conditions.

However, your main point is that everyone will suffer to SOME extent from these conditions even in low to moderate porn consumption. Correct?

I can’t easily reject that hypothesis but I don’t think you can provide some good, concrete evidence either. Your claim is certainly more extreme than mine and Matt’s. [/quote]

I agree with this as well, albeit with one clarification. Masturbating in and of itself isn’t harmful, even for that 6th day in a row. In fact, it’s self-limiting as we’re all familiar with. Fantasies, even one’s that would remain unrealized in real life, aren’t a problem. It’s the novelty of immediate access porn that the TED talk addresses.

edited.

[therajraj]

I think there’s an anti-social aspect to porn for some. Exactly why I mentioned it in the shooting thread.

Why go out on Saturday night to talk to the ladies when they are a mixed bag in terms of looks, require hours of courting with no guarantee of sex when you can stay home and rub one out to some of the hottest women you’ve ever seen and then play with your shiny apple products afterwards?

The disincentive is there.

[therajraj]

Is there such a thing as a T-Nation addiction?

I can’t get through a whole day without checking this site Mon-Fri.

[Cron391]

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Is there such a thing as a T-Nation addiction?

I can’t get through a whole day without checking this site Mon-Fri.

[/quote]

x2
A lot of enjoyable things are bad for you, moderation…life is short

[Cortes]

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
“No longer engaging people who aren’t interested in reading the links and just want to spout their preconceived biases.”

Who used to be extremely addicted to porn, genius. I’m glad you assume I’m a saint, though. Thanks.

It seems that your heavy handed bias towards the idea of any porn being wrong comes from personal experience and feeling your own experience will not be genuine to you but to anyone who indulges in masturbating to porn. Your responses to Beefeater were where you chose not to debate with him about the topic is when I believe you were stonewalling. Not only you but the other guy who is agrees with you.
[/quote]

I am biased. So are you. I doubt there are too many taking part in this thread who do not have a fairly strong opinion one way or the other, and that’s fine.

However, the points you are noting are examples of frustration on my part with being charged with answering a bunch of questions that are covered in vast detail in the sites connected to the links that were provided on the first page.

Again, I have not been saying EVERYONE who looks at porn is going to automatically become addicted. For what I hope is the last time here is my point:

1. It is unhealthy in general. So are donuts, but they taste friggin good and not everyone who eats one will turn into a 300lb type II diabetic.

2. This type of porn IS addictive for certain guys, and they DO need help and they DO need to understand what is going on.

Not sure how this constitutes “stonewalling.” When did asking people to do their research and to quit arguing from assumption become “stonewalling?”

And I have been more willing than almost anyone on this thread to engage in discussion about this.

[Cortes]

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]groo wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]groo wrote:

[quote]cstratton2 wrote:
Porn is HORRIBLE for people… It can lead to ED and even makes alot of people have issues getting it on with real life girls… http://yourbrainonporn.com/

[/quote]
So um are there any articles that are peer reviewed on the site? Or even any that aren’t by the admin of the site? Or any that have been submitted to any reputable publication?

C’mon man.

I could start a website and only submit “articles” by me espousing my position. Do you think conclusions that are factual could be drawn from that site?

[/quote]

Why not look for yourself, if you are actually interested in anything other than naysaying. Do you have an argument with the science, or is this just the standard internet fare. NOT PEER REVIEWED SQWAWK! Thosands upon thousands of guys on the forums using the information on that site and finding help and relief from a horrible addiction is not enough for me to acknowledge someone might be on to something because THE PEER REVEIWSSQWAK![/quote]

I looked. I saw no content by anyone other than the site host and personal anecdotes.
Horrible addiction to what? Orgasms?

Let me do a personal case study. When I was in high school I could get hard when the wind blew. After years and years of sex and masturbation well it takes more than the wind but dammit I can still get hard. Thus porn has not hurt me. Thus its not bad.

Is that science? If I get a thousand similar anecdotes does it make it fact?
[/quote]

Let’s speak plainly. Let’s say there are not a thousand, but THOUSANDS upon thousands of guys with these symptoms: erectile dysfunction that typically occurs only after the initiation of sex, who cannot achieve orgasm with another human without extraordinary stimulation, who cannot achieve orgasm through vaginal sex at all, who quickly lose erection after initiation of sex, who masturbate for literally HOURS on end day after day, or for multiple times, whose addiction to porn/masturbation/sex has begun to negatively affect their lives, who have literally lost their families because of this addiction, who have altogether lost interest in sex with real living humans because porn is so much more stimulating and they have become so hyperstimulated that real sex has lost any effect it once had upon them. Who are becoming ever more disassociated from humanity.

And then you give them an answer. You show this LARGE group of mostly (but not all) males that ceasing looking at porn and masturbating can cure them of this problem, give them their lives back, and vastly improve the quality of their self-esteem along with all of the relationships in their lives.

But the science is bad. So fuck all that.

Do I have that right? [/quote]

In answer to Mak’s question. The above ^^^^^ is from page one. Specific answer bolded.

I was not all of those things, but I was enough of them. And there are a lot, A LOT of guys who are this and a more.

Here’s a good quick description of porn/masturbation/sex addiction:

http://candeohealthysexuality.com/brain-science-of-sexual-addiction/

[Dr_Pangloss]

[quote]Cortes wrote:

1. It is unhealthy in general. So are donuts, but they taste friggin good and not everyone who eats one will turn into a 300lb type II diabetic.

2. This type of porn IS addictive for certain guys, and they DO need help and they DO need to understand what is going on.
   [/quote]

Eh, porn is a tool. It can be used in unhealthy ways and it can be used in healthy ways. Instead of saying porn is unhealthy, I think it would be more accurate to acknowledge the myriad ways porn is used.

Even in scenarios where we think of porn as being the problem (the husband furtively beating off to the glow of the monitor while his wife lays awake in the next room feeling unloved), I think there’s room to admit that porn consumption isn’t the cause of the disharmony, but instead a symptom of a deeper problem.

[Cortes]

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:
Yes. Please.

All I ask is that anyone who wants to pepper us with questions first read the linked pages and get a decent understanding of what this is about.

Also, I guess I still need to further clarify: Go back and look at what I wrote on page one. I did not write anything to the effect that anyone who looks at porn is going to immediately slip down the side of the pitcher plant and never escape. I did not say that.

What I said what that I believe pornography to be inherently unhealthy. I do not believe that there is anything good to be gained from pornography. Can you indulge in it every once in a while and come out unscathed? Maybe. But you can argue the same of cocaine. If I am wrong about this, then I want someone to tell me exactly how they would consider masturbating to hard core pornography to be an inherently healthy activity.

I’m getting a bit tired of having to defend myself against claims that were not made by me. [/quote]

Ok, I agree I wasn’t doing a great job. I went back and watched the video.

The guy’s main premise is that watching Internet porn might result in the following conditions to some degree:

1.) numbed pleasure response to other activities/stimuli
2.) hyper-reactivity to porn
3.) willpower erosion
4.) ED
5.) Mental issues (anxiety, depression etc.)

There seems to be little reason to argue against the fact that if you take it to the extreme (jacking off for 6h a day or so) will lead to some of the above conditions.

However, your main point is that everyone will suffer to SOME extent from these conditions even in low to moderate porn consumption. Correct?

I can’t easily reject that hypothesis but I don’t think you can provide some good, concrete evidence either. Your claim is certainly more extreme than mine and Matt’s. [/quote]

NO THIS IS NOT MY MAIN POINT!!!

Look a couple of posts up.

The porn is unhealthy point that you guys are insisting upon beating my over the head with is a side point, but let me ask you a question:

Let’s say you had an 11 year old son. Would you encourage him to watch porn under any circumstances?

[Cortes]

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

1. It is unhealthy in general. So are donuts, but they taste friggin good and not everyone who eats one will turn into a 300lb type II diabetic.

2. This type of porn IS addictive for certain guys, and they DO need help and they DO need to understand what is going on.
   [/quote]

Eh, porn is a tool. It can be used in unhealthy ways and it can be used in healthy ways. Instead of saying porn is unhealthy, I think it would be more accurate to acknowledge the myriad ways porn is used.

Even in scenarios where we think of porn as being the problem (the husband furtively beating off to the glow of the monitor while his wife lays awake in the next room feeling unloved), I think there’s room to admit that porn consumption isn’t the cause of the disharmony, but instead a symptom of a deeper problem.
[/quote]

I agree with enough of this that I do not take issue with it. As soon as I saw your avatar I expected to see a reasonable response and I am happy to say I was not disappointed.

[therajraj]

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

Eh, porn is a tool. It can be used in unhealthy ways and it can be used in healthy ways. Instead of saying porn is unhealthy, I think it would be more accurate to acknowledge the myriad ways porn is used.
[/quote]

You could substitute fast food for porn into this sentence and we’d have a clean bulk vs dirty bulk discussion.

Ha!

[Cortes]

[quote]therajraj wrote:
I think there’s an anti-social aspect to porn for some. Exactly why I mentioned it in the shooting thread.

Why go out on Saturday night to talk to the ladies when they are a mixed bag in terms of looks, require hours of courting with no guarantee of sex when you can stay home and rub one out to some of the hottest women you’ve ever seen and then play with your shiny apple products afterwards?

The disincentive is there.[/quote]

Totally agree with this.

[Cortes]

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Is there such a thing as a T-Nation addiction?

I can’t get through a whole day without checking this site Mon-Fri.

[/quote]

Heh, same here. Uh oh!

[Cortes]

[quote]cstratton2 wrote:
its to say in at least the most minor of effects there can be some alterations maybe just not serious enough to pick up on at first… It is like they mentioned about the fish in the water. You really do not know how much or in what ways it effects you until you stop using it yourself, If you are so inclined to see if it had any effect on you then stop looking at it for a while make the necessary changes and adjustments and see if anything changes for yourself, another large factor at play is the fact that you both are older then the current generation that is more severely affected since high speed internet did not exist when you were a young teenager… Either way the only sure fire answer is to stop the activity and find for yourself an answer. [/quote]

More excellent points.

Try not using porn for one month and see what happens. Since you are completely NOT addicted, this should be the simplest thing in the world, right? Anyone willing to do this?

[groo]

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
“No longer engaging people who aren’t interested in reading the links and just want to spout their preconceived biases.”

Who used to be extremely addicted to porn, genius. I’m glad you assume I’m a saint, though. Thanks.

It seems that your heavy handed bias towards the idea of any porn being wrong comes from personal experience and feeling your own experience will not be genuine to you but to anyone who indulges in masturbating to porn. Your responses to Beefeater were where you chose not to debate with him about the topic is when I believe you were stonewalling. Not only you but the other guy who is agrees with you.
[/quote]

I am biased. So are you. I doubt there are too many taking part in this thread who do not have a fairly strong opinion one way or the other, and that’s fine.

However, the points you are noting are examples of frustration on my part with being charged with answering a bunch of questions that are covered in vast detail in the sites connected to the links that were provided on the first page.

Again, I have not been saying EVERYONE who looks at porn is going to automatically become addicted. For what I hope is the last time here is my point:

1. It is unhealthy in general. So are donuts, but they taste friggin good and not everyone who eats one will turn into a 300lb type II diabetic.

2. This type of porn IS addictive for certain guys, and they DO need help and they DO need to understand what is going on.

Not sure how this constitutes “stonewalling.” When did asking people to do their research and to quit arguing from assumption become “stonewalling?”

And I have been more willing than almost anyone on this thread to engage in discussion about this. [/quote]

However, the points you are noting are examples of frustration on my part with being charged with answering a bunch of questions that are covered in vast detail in the sites connected to the links that were provided on the first page.

On this point only. This is sort of your burden if you are presenting something as fact no matter the subject matter. If you simply want to refer people to a site and not defend or discuss a position on anything you can do that. When you fly the flag for any subject seems a bit weak to say well its all true if you did your reading of sites x,y, and z it makes it so.

Bottom line is his conclusions are derived from research that isn’t specific to internet porn. Much more likely some of these studies would be more applicable to gaming online. That is where a lot of studies were done originally with the intent of making the online gaming more pleasurable and addicting.

And for someone to say something like well common sense dictates this is the case. Eh.
As well the anecdote route.

If we were in a solutions oriented environment…would you ban porn?
Some have made porn to drugs analogy for addiction purposes which seems to not have a lot of matchup if the internet and the easy availability of any type of porn has created a problem including that of greater use, why is this not the case in instances where drugs have been legalized?

I will say I have difficulty viewing this from the position some of the guys on this site and the home site have that almost seems a sort of social anxiety. A couple of the posts talked about how cold women are etc and I think that type of mindset might be more the cause of many problems than anything else.