Poor Recovery From HIIT, Other Options?

I know HIIT is a time-tested, real-deal method of conditioning. That said, it takes the stuffing out of me, and I recover from it terribly. My lifts decrease, I feel like shit, etc. I’ve tried ramping up slowly with a 1:4 ratio and then 1:3, etc. Once I get past 1:4 things go to shit and I’m a mess.

I was using a Concept II rower for that work, but I’ve also done treadmill push sprints (where the machine isn’t on and I push the belt with my feet). Both just gutted me in ways that I don’t think were that great.

I need to add in some conditioning, as I’ve been doing absolutely none for the last 12 weeks. The strength program I’m on has been good and I’m continuing to make progress, but I lift 3x/week for about 45 minutes. That’s just not enough movement to keep me lean/healthy/athletic, considering I work in an office and only get about an hour of walking in my city per week.

When I had a lifestyle that allowed for outdoor cycling, I maintained a much leaner physique and could eat pretty liberally (2-3hrs of cycling weekly). However, I didn’t carry as much muscle and so I looked like I didn’t really lift. I don’t have the opportunity to ride outside like I used to, but I have access to spin bikes and can take spin classes to get that kind of cardio work in.

I’m wondering what your recommendations would be cardio-wise that can help me get in enough weekly movement to stay leaner, feel healthier, and look better naked. I’d also like it to not interfere with my strength work in terms of recovery. Should I revisit HIIT with a gentler set of options or not go as all-out? Should I do more steady-state work? My gym has treadmills, rowers, stair climbers, bikes, spin bikes, ellipticals, battle ropes, med balls, and other equipment to use.

If you are run down and loosing strengthen, your diet sucks.

Also, how many times a week are you doing HIIT?

[quote]JFG wrote:
If you are run down and loosing strengthen, your diet sucks.

Also, how many times a week are you doing HIIT?[/quote]

It may not be diet. I primarily eat lean protein and vegetables and drink a lot of water. I get enough carbs from steel-cut oats, yams, and occasional fruit. I do cheat 2x a week or so but don’t drink much. I have a pretty enormous amount of stress elsewhere in my life (ill family members, work changes, etc) and so I think that tends to hamper my recovery ability.

I was doing HIIT 2-3x/week.

[quote]InCorporeSano wrote:

[quote]JFG wrote:
If you are run down and loosing strengthen, your diet sucks.

Also, how many times a week are you doing HIIT?[/quote]

It may not be diet. I primarily eat lean protein and vegetables and drink a lot of water. I get enough carbs from steel-cut oats, yams, and occasional fruit. I do cheat 2x a week or so but don’t drink much. I have a pretty enormous amount of stress elsewhere in my life (ill family members, work changes, etc) and so I think that tends to hamper my recovery ability.

I was doing HIIT 2-3x/week. [/quote]

Then, it’s your diet.

Work out 3x a week and HIIT 2-3 times a week about 20-30 minutes?!?

Just take a step back, lower the intensity and start working back up. Just like when you stall on lifts. Take a few days off, recoup, start again at 10 minutes and add 5% a week. See how you fare.

[quote]InCorporeSano wrote:
I know HIIT is a time-tested, real-deal method of conditioning. That said, it takes the stuffing out of me, and I recover from it terribly. My lifts decrease, I feel like shit, etc. I’ve tried ramping up slowly with a 1:4 ratio and then 1:3, etc. Once I get past 1:4 things go to shit and I’m a mess.

I was using a Concept II rower for that work, but I’ve also done treadmill push sprints (where the machine isn’t on and I push the belt with my feet). Both just gutted me in ways that I don’t think were that great.

I need to add in some conditioning, as I’ve been doing absolutely none for the last 12 weeks. The strength program I’m on has been good and I’m continuing to make progress, but I lift 3x/week for about 45 minutes. That’s just not enough movement to keep me lean/healthy/athletic, considering I work in an office and only get about an hour of walking in my city per week.

When I had a lifestyle that allowed for outdoor cycling, I maintained a much leaner physique and could eat pretty liberally (2-3hrs of cycling weekly). However, I didn’t carry as much muscle and so I looked like I didn’t really lift. I don’t have the opportunity to ride outside like I used to, but I have access to spin bikes and can take spin classes to get that kind of cardio work in.

I’m wondering what your recommendations would be cardio-wise that can help me get in enough weekly movement to stay leaner, feel healthier, and look better naked. I’d also like it to not interfere with my strength work in terms of recovery. Should I revisit HIIT with a gentler set of options or not go as all-out? Should I do more steady-state work? My gym has treadmills, rowers, stair climbers, bikes, spin bikes, ellipticals, battle ropes, med balls, and other equipment to use. [/quote]

This is something I’ve been doing a huge amount of research into recently.

It may surprise you to know that HIIT isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. There is no significant afterburn and it doesn’t torch calories as is claimed. Although high intensity burns more calories than low intensity duration matters too. Long duration, moderate intensity is easier to recover from and will burn more calories than a few short bursts of intense exercise.

If you can tolerate a half hour steady state workout it’ll probably burn more calories than 10 mins of HIIT. If you can manage to put in a few harder paced (but not intense) intervals into that then better still. If you can manage one short HIIT session and a couple of longer duration - easier paced workouts that’ll probably give you the best of both worlds - good fat burn plus all energy systems worked.

If you want more on this I can PM you a link to a very indepth review of the research - they don’t like us to post links on the forums.

[quote]JFG wrote:

Then, it’s your diet.

[/quote]

Honest question: how does my diet interact with the level of stress in my life? If I’m super stressed and training regularly, am I not eating enough? The wrong things? I’m wanting to understand your thinking but it’s hard without more specifics.

[quote]susani wrote:

This is something I’ve been doing a huge amount of research into recently.

It may surprise you to know that HIIT isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. There is no significant afterburn and it doesn’t torch calories as is claimed. Although high intensity burns more calories than low intensity duration matters too. Long duration, moderate intensity is easier to recover from and will burn more calories than a few short bursts of intense exercise.

If you can tolerate a half hour steady state workout it’ll probably burn more calories than 10 mins of HIIT. If you can manage to put in a few harder paced (but not intense) intervals into that then better still. If you can manage one short HIIT session and a couple of longer duration - easier paced workouts that’ll probably give you the best of both worlds - good fat burn plus all energy systems worked.

If you want more on this I can PM you a link to a very indepth review of the research - they don’t like us to post links on the forums.
[/quote]

I’m very deconditioned at the moment and have been doing the following on my elliptical:

  • 5 min warm-up
  • 5 * 15 sec fast/ 45 sec slow HIIT (this gets my heart rate up to the mid-high 150’s, or 96% of my maximum heart rate)
  • 20-25 min warm-down (until my heart rate gets below 120)

So I’m doing 30 min of cardio with my heart rate elevated quite significantly (even though the last 20 min is at a very easy pace). Would 30 min of moderate cardio be better than this? I really feel awful after these sessions and would be happy to swap out HIIT for 30 min of moderate cardio instead, but it seems to me that I’d probably get more benefit from the HIIT until my conditioning improves.

I’d appreciate it if you would send me the link you mentioned when you have a moment (I’m not allowed to send PMs for some reason).

[quote]InCorporeSano wrote:

[quote]JFG wrote:

Then, it’s your diet.

[/quote]

Honest question: how does my diet interact with the level of stress in my life? If I’m super stressed and training regularly, am I not eating enough? The wrong things? I’m wanting to understand your thinking but it’s hard without more specifics. [/quote]

It has everything to do with it.

Maybe you are not eating enough. Eat 2000 calories, use 2500 calories. You will feel run down and loose strength. Because your body is not getting what it needs.

Not eating the right foods. Only you will know that. Extreme case, Coeliac. Your body reacts to wheat instead of ingesting and giving you energy. Same with intolerances (milk for example).

Not enough variety. Don’t think daily, weekly is fine. You need the minerals and vitamins also.

Timing of food. I feel awful on IF diet. Not eating for 16 hours just doesn’t do it for me. I felt run down and sick for one month. Also, things like working out and then doing HIIT first thing in the morning on an empty stomach… That is overkill and your body will react.

Stress. Either stress eating or letting take over your life. it produces cortisol. Now, this is where you have to do your homework as I could probably type a few pages. Lots of good articles here. Diet is important here as you want to minimize cortisol “damage”.

Etc, etc etc.

Diet is what makes your body grow. Bad diet, no growth. Good diet, your body is happy, responses well to change, repairs itself in a timely fashion, not sick as often, feel energetic, etc.

That is all I’m going to say.

Good luck

[quote]InCorporeSano wrote:
I know HIIT is a time-tested, real-deal method of conditioning. That said, it takes the stuffing out of me, and I recover from it terribly. My lifts decrease, I feel like shit, etc. I’ve tried ramping up slowly with a 1:4 ratio and then 1:3, etc. Once I get past 1:4 things go to shit and I’m a mess.
[/quote]

I know exactly what you mean. Like you, I respond very poorly to max-effort HIIT work–I just can’t seem to recover from it.

I am having success with ‘gentler’ variants of HIIT. I do interval-based conditioning work 1/4; one workout alternates KB swings and hanging knee raises, and the other alternates light leg-press and crunches. These workouts last 20-25 minutes, and while challenging, do not leave me with that exhausted, overtrained feeling like I used to get from all-out HIIT.

I do steady-state LISS as well, running 60 min 1/4. Along with my diet, the running and conditioning work allow me to remain fairly lean.

tl;dr If all-out HIIT doesn’t feel right, don’t do it. Lots of other methods for getting/staying lean.

[quote]OldFatGuy2 wrote:

[quote]susani wrote:

This is something I’ve been doing a huge amount of research into recently.

It may surprise you to know that HIIT isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. There is no significant afterburn and it doesn’t torch calories as is claimed. Although high intensity burns more calories than low intensity duration matters too. Long duration, moderate intensity is easier to recover from and will burn more calories than a few short bursts of intense exercise.

If you can tolerate a half hour steady state workout it’ll probably burn more calories than 10 mins of HIIT. If you can manage to put in a few harder paced (but not intense) intervals into that then better still. If you can manage one short HIIT session and a couple of longer duration - easier paced workouts that’ll probably give you the best of both worlds - good fat burn plus all energy systems worked.

If you want more on this I can PM you a link to a very indepth review of the research - they don’t like us to post links on the forums.
[/quote]

I’m very deconditioned at the moment and have been doing the following on my elliptical:

  • 5 min warm-up
  • 5 * 15 sec fast/ 45 sec slow HIIT (this gets my heart rate up to the mid-high 150’s, or 96% of my maximum heart rate)
  • 20-25 min warm-down (until my heart rate gets below 120)

So I’m doing 30 min of cardio with my heart rate elevated quite significantly (even though the last 20 min is at a very easy pace). Would 30 min of moderate cardio be better than this? I really feel awful after these sessions and would be happy to swap out HIIT for 30 min of moderate cardio instead, but it seems to me that I’d probably get more benefit from the HIIT until my conditioning improves.

I’d appreciate it if you would send me the link you mentioned when you have a moment (I’m not allowed to send PMs for some reason).
[/quote]
What you are doing looks good. Keep doing it, you will most likely reap far more benefits doing what you are doing than doing 30 min of steady state.

[quote]EyeDentist wrote:

[quote]InCorporeSano wrote:
I know HIIT is a time-tested, real-deal method of conditioning. That said, it takes the stuffing out of me, and I recover from it terribly. My lifts decrease, I feel like shit, etc. I’ve tried ramping up slowly with a 1:4 ratio and then 1:3, etc. Once I get past 1:4 things go to shit and I’m a mess.
[/quote]

I know exactly what you mean. Like you, I respond very poorly to max-effort HIIT work–I just can’t seem to recover from it.
[/quote]

This is interesting. I’ve seen bio mechanical issues, diet issues, timing issues, lack of conditioning issues, etc, but never what you are describing.

Nothing wrong with other methods (I prefer complexes), but I’ll have to look deeper into this when I have time. thank you for making me think about this.

[quote]OldFatGuy2 wrote:

[quote]susani wrote:

This is something I’ve been doing a huge amount of research into recently.

It may surprise you to know that HIIT isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. There is no significant afterburn and it doesn’t torch calories as is claimed. Although high intensity burns more calories than low intensity duration matters too. Long duration, moderate intensity is easier to recover from and will burn more calories than a few short bursts of intense exercise.

If you can tolerate a half hour steady state workout it’ll probably burn more calories than 10 mins of HIIT. If you can manage to put in a few harder paced (but not intense) intervals into that then better still. If you can manage one short HIIT session and a couple of longer duration - easier paced workouts that’ll probably give you the best of both worlds - good fat burn plus all energy systems worked.

If you want more on this I can PM you a link to a very indepth review of the research - they don’t like us to post links on the forums.
[/quote]

I’m very deconditioned at the moment and have been doing the following on my elliptical:

  • 5 min warm-up
  • 5 * 15 sec fast/ 45 sec slow HIIT (this gets my heart rate up to the mid-high 150’s, or 96% of my maximum heart rate)
  • 20-25 min warm-down (until my heart rate gets below 120)

So I’m doing 30 min of cardio with my heart rate elevated quite significantly (even though the last 20 min is at a very easy pace). Would 30 min of moderate cardio be better than this? I really feel awful after these sessions and would be happy to swap out HIIT for 30 min of moderate cardio instead, but it seems to me that I’d probably get more benefit from the HIIT until my conditioning improves.

I’d appreciate it if you would send me the link you mentioned when you have a moment (I’m not allowed to send PMs for some reason).
[/quote]

What you’re doing sounds great apart from the bit about feeling awful afterwards. That suggests you may be going a bit hard for your current fitness levels.

I think one thing to remember is that we aren’t all made the same way. Recovery rates can vary for lots of reasons (not least lack of conditioning) and some are most definitely built for endurance rather than speed and vise-versa. The good news is that you can build very good fitness levels AND stay lean on pretty much any combination of the two.

You also need to remember that what works best will depend upon your current fitness levels. Things may well change in the future.

If you don’t have decent strength endurance for say, kettle bell swings, but have good VO2 max and a high lactate threshold then your muscles will tire long before you get any kind of aerobic or anaerobic workout.

If you have very good strength endurance for a certain task you may well be too efficient and unable to get your heart rate up high enough to get a good conditioning effect.

In the running world the standard advice is to start out on the low intensity long duration stuff. Get a decent amount of conditioning under your belt before starting to introduce higher intensity workouts. You tend to get the opposite advice from the strength training world. The liklihood is that people are giving out advice based upon their own experiences - so based upon their particular body type. You need to try both and see what works for you.

If you recover best from steady state then I think perhaps a good idea is to start out building up tolerance for half an hour to 45 minutes of steady state running, cycling, rowing - a good mix. If you’re not very fit that will initially burn a fair number of calories. Over time try to get faster - so keep putting in the same or more effort. As much intensity as you can manage yet still recover well. Then perhaps add in some fartlek type intervals. If you’re running maintain a very comfortable pace then every so often have short burst of more intense running. As much as you can manage and still recover well. Gradually over time you’ll get fitter and eventually you’ll manage the HIIT stuff no problem at all. You’ll have the best of both worlds.

Those that don’t cope well with the long duration stuff (such as me!) can attack it from the other angle. Start out on HIIT but once a week try to do at least one longer duration workout where you keep pushing either pace or volume until you get where you want to be.

I’ll dig out that link (need to search for it again as it was deleted from where I posted it on here). I’ll get that to you ASAP. But the bottom line from that review of the research was that there is more than one way to skin a rabbit. Long duration lower intensity has more potential to burn calories simply because you’ll be able to keep it up for longer. But HIIT has other benefits that you won’t get from ALL low intensity training.

With both fat loss and fitness ALL high intensity/low volume can get you most of the way there (if you’re able to do it properly); ALL lower intensity/higher volume can get you most of the way there (if you’re able to do it properly). The very best results will come from some combination of the two (exact ratios being individual specific).

HIIT is high intensity intervals not all out intervals. I would just back off a bit and see if that solves the problem.