Pretty well rounded imo… that said if you want to be good at anyone thing then well rounded isn’t the way to go. But you recognized that already.
Imo the schedule above, is good for anyone that just wants to be successful at their weekend pickup basketball game, athletic enough to play with their kids or waterski on vacation w/o thinking about their “bad knee” or if someone says “hey lets do a 5k” they’re not so out of shape they have to reformat their whole life to train for it.
If you want an active lifestyle, non boring workouts, and you’re pretty ok with how your body looks (and are concerned with just keeping low bf) than that’s totally the way to go.
If you have more specific goals then be more specific in your training. But there’s no reason to knock someone’s training or their goals unless they say some shit like THIS IS THE ONLY WAY TO TRAIN!
Or They think they’re going to be a successful bodybuilder and want to put on 50lbs and think that’ll do it. Or they think they can become the next Roger Federer doing that shit.
Crossfit is great, it’s not as “housewife-ish” as people think. IMO for an athlete competing in a sport it’s way too generalized but that’s because the daily workouts are meant for general physical prepardnes.
One can take the same principles and apply it to anybodys training program to target different areas. For example, I really love hybrids that include short, but heavy metcons at the end.
15-12-9 reps for time.
225 lbs deadlift combined with ring dips for example. At the end of the workout I’m on the floor gasping for air; granted I could have done sprints, hill sprints, tabatta, HIIT running to get a similar effect but I just don’t think it’s as fun or varried.
The fact still remains, heavy lifting is the most important aspect of most training programs.
Mjöllnir simply means “crusher,” referring to its pulverizing effect
The Prose Edda gives a summary of Mjöllnir’s special qualities in that, with Mjöllnir, Thor:
… would be able to strike as firmly as he wanted, whatever his aim, and the hammer would never fail, and if he threw it at something, it would never miss and never fly so far from his hand that it would not find its way back, and when he wanted, it would be so small that it could be carried inside his tunic.
[quote]Sagat wrote:
So i think we should raise the standards to 280lbs and 900lb deadlift so i can prove my point
Seriously i hope you see my point: i dont see how a crossfity guy who is 170lbs in great shape, with good lifts for his bw, good running times and doing 40 pullups, etc is more “average” or “mediocre” than one guy who does bodybuilding training and is over 200lbs lean, benching 300 and squating 400 for reps.
Both had great results from their hard work and are light years ahead of average people, but at the same time they cant compare themselves to professional athletes or bodybuilders.
I just dont understand why some people here think the first guy is training to be average and only the second guy has some legitimate goals. [/quote]
Xen Veda and Sagat, I both like your take on this…
I commented extensively on Crossfit in the October edition of “Question of Strength”, so I won’t bother too much again. Instead, I’ll offer some comments from Robb Wolf, (with a pinch of some of my own thoughts), whose ideas and principles are in line with mine…
Ah yes, the New York Times piece. Charles and Mike Boyle must have circulated the same copy, juicy gossip that it is. WHEN is anything reported that is not taken from the sensationalistic angle? Admittedly, a story talking about our geriatric clients who have rehabbed from hip, knee and shoulder replacements is less compelling than the NY times piece. What Charles IS doing however is citing the NY Times as some kind of expert resource and is thus comfortable with any and all points in the article that may be non-factual, inflated or spun for effect. The Rhabdo story is something CF has NEVER shied away from. They publicized rhabdo immediately upon learning of it’s existence and potential to do harm. But again, there’s not much sensationalism in that.
The Level 1 cert involves lecture, hands on coaching and directed training via CrossFit WOD’s. The Front page of CrossFit.com has been an open forum for people to say if they liked or disliked the cert since their inception. The vast majority appear to think the cost of attendance is equal to the return on investment. So this whole “I talked to someone” thing just does not feel right. I have NO DOUBT there have been people who have attended the Level 1 Cert and it was not to their liking. What percentage of folks is this? Gauging the rate of growth of CrossFit it’s apparently quite low.
I attended my CSCS exam back in the day, which consisted of a written test, with no coach to coach interaction, no hands on instruction. I studied for the test while driving. The most challenging element of the exam was remembering to not answer the questions as I would DO things but rather how the NSCA wanted. Benefit? I got insurance through them, other than that, a waste of time.
I’m not sure how a CSCS or ACSM newbie is any better than a CrossFit Level 1 newb. More book learning? Perhaps, but there is ample opportunity for folks to further their education both in and outside of CrossFit. Specialty certs in Olifting, basic barbell, kettle bells, gymnastics. A level 1 cert is, like many other certs a beginning?I fail to see a problem with that.
I suspect the section on scalability, mechanics, consistency then intensity were lacking from the “detailed” notes Chuck was referring to. There exists quite an interesting battery of screening movement in CrossFit circles? they are called “functional movements”. Inability to perform them leads to corrective measures. That there are trainers (both in and out) of CrossFit that are better or worse at this screening and scaling process is without a doubt. Is Charles 100% confident in the abilities of EVERYONE he has certified? This is just ignorance of the CF methodology and holding CrossFit to a standard his own trainees cannot uphold.
[quote]
One reason Olympic shot-putter Adam Nelson could not perform power snatches before I started working with him was that he had adhesions in his rotator cuff muscles - after we addressed this injury with such treatments as Active ReleaseTM, Nelson was able to reintroduce this valuable exercise in his workout and within a month did 286 pounds for three reps. Jim McKenzie, a professional hockey player I’ve trained, went from a 280-pound close-grip bench press to 380 pounds in less than four months by focusing on corrective exercises - and for the first three months of this program Jim did not perform bench presses! [/quote]
Many, many CF coaches refer to Active Release Practitioner and other soft-tissue workers on a nearly daily basis, and to enormous benefit?I guess it’s time to measure Dicks since both appear to be doing the same things. Charles is good at what he does, other people are good at what they do?there is not a monopoly on information good training or results.
[quote]
Focus on a Single Training Protocol. In regards to the concept of specificity, the protocols in CrossFit are not appropriate for developing the highest levels of strength or power or speed. It is doubtful that you will see any elite powerlifters, weightlifters or sprinters using CrossFit protocols as their primary method of conditioning. For example, I’m training Sam Baker, an NFL lineman who needed to dramatically increase his strength and muscle mass. Prior to Baker’s entering the NFL, where he went as a #1 draft pick, in two months my training protocols enabled him to add 25 pounds of solid muscle, reduce his bodyfat by 8.1 percent, increase his vertical jump by four inches and significantly increase his strength. I didn’t accomplish this by having him superset high-rep push-ups with mile runs. [/quote]
Any coach worth a bucket of piss would know that a football player needs more time indexed efforts for conditioning with ample strength and power work. John Welbourn has done exactly this in his training to good success. There has never been a claim that CF would produce a world class Olifter or sprinter?the statement has been “Forging Elite Fitness” and fitness has been defined as “Work Capacity across Broad Time and Modal Domains?” That said, people have used the concepts of intensity, functionality and variation to good effect for GPP. Shocker. Look to Mike Burgner’s use of CrossFit in the off season for his athletes and what Jason Bagwell accomplished with his Powerlfiters.
[quote]
Many sport coaches often overemphasize energy system training with athletes, often to the detriment of other physical qualities. Check out any exercise physiology textbook and look at the studies performed on elite athletes and their VO2 maxes. It is not necessary for a baseball player, or a basketball player for that matter, to have a VO2 max of 70. The promotional materials I’ve read about CrossFit imply that this type of training addresses all the strength and conditioning needs of an athlete, but the concept of specificity suggests that if you try to excel at everything it is unlikely that you will reach the highest levels at anything. This is why we don’t see individuals who can run a mile in four minutes flat and also bench press 500 pounds. [/quote]
Again, for MOST athletes, a generalist program of gymnastics, olifts and smart, time indexed met-can is the goods. Fun to do also, AND this is a big point, CrossFit is a methodology unto itself. Folks do CrossFit for the sake of doing CrossFit.
[quote]
Insufficient Instruction for Teaching Complex Training Methods. It takes more than a single weekend seminar to develop the competency to teach certain types of exercises or be able to adequately prescribe protocols for complex training methods. In this category I would include the classical Olympic lifts, strongman exercises and plyometrics. Often in the strength coaching profession these aforementioned training methods have been criticized as dangerous; but when you look at why athletes become injured from these training methods, it can often be traced to poor technique. [/quote]
The basic movement covered in a level 1 cert are accessible and easy to implement in either a 1-on-1 or group setting. Specialty certs, level 2 testing and internship offers many opportunities to improve one’s skill base. Again, does Charles expect everyone to know everything all at once?
[quote]
Inappropriate Repetition Brackets for Complex Exercises. Although high repetitions and short rest intervals can be used to develop muscular endurance, these protocols should not be used in some exercises. This is especially true with the Olympic lifts, as it is difficult to maintain proper technique when using high reps with these exercises - especially when supersetting them with other multi-joint exercises such as deadlifts. Simply watching CrossFit trainees performing these lifts in videos on their website will confirm this truth. Further, the Olympic lifting movements are most appropriate for developing power; if you want to develop muscular endurance, simpler movements should be used. [/quote]
Oh boy. We can buck hay for 8 hrs, or I can shovel my 30-m driveway for 1.5 hours and that’s ok, but high rep Olifts are dangerous? Mike Burgner seems to think otherwise. Javorek complexes anyone? This is just crap. Hang a sign on something that it is “dangerous” and you have instant credibility.
[quote]
Inappropriate Exercise Order. To achieve specific responses from exercises, the exercise order should be addressed. As shown in the “Linda” workout described earlier, what is the logic in fatiguing the lower back with deadlifts prior to performing power cleans? To activate the high-threshold motor units with power cleans and to perform them with optimal technique, all the sets of the power clean should be performed before deadlifts. Further, combining weight training exercises with sprints places an athlete at a high risk of injury, especially to the hamstrings.[/quote]
Again, this is a lack of familiarity of what CrossFit IS. Linda is not designed as a max-effort, optimized motorunit recruitment workout?it is designed to kick your ass. The technicality while under significant muscular and metabolic load is really something EVERYONE with an opinion on the topic should experience. Again, this seems to belie the potential of doing planned strength work in and around metabolic efforts. Judging a whole fitness program by 1-workout?
[quote]
Endorsement of Controversial Exercises. On one website of a CrossFit affiliate, I saw video clips of athletes jumping onto cars and standing on Swiss balls. I appreciate having a wide variety of exercises to use with clients, but you have to question the logic of using such high-risk exercises in a program. [/quote]
I dislike swiss balls and endo-boards. These guys sound like retards. Finally something to agree on? OHH! Wait?these guys were having FUN! An so now one affiliate defines the programming and technicality of everyone in the movement? This sounds like a line borrowed from Mike Boyle! Perhaps it circulated with the NY Times copy?
[quote]
The principle of individuality suggests that not everyone will response equally to the same workout program, and that for optimal results a workout program should take into account those factors that are responsible for this difference. If you’re an 18-year-old Army recruit about to be deployed to Iraq, then perhaps the CrossFit program might be appropriate for this individual. If you’re an elite athlete trying to reach the highest levels in your sport, a CrossFit approach may not be the optimal way to train.[/quote]
Or perhaps it is. The trophy case is growing, time will tell on this count. Again, it appears to escape Coach Poliquin’s notice that programming can be modified for individual needs. It all depends on the goals and the individuality of the athlete. That the WOD may or may not be appropriate for an NFL lineman is immaterial?the concepts are what matter in conjunction with smart implementation. If people need significant strength work, they get it. As Alwyn Cosgrove likes to say, methods are many, principle are few.
[quote]
Because of these concerns, I cannot recommend CrossFit training, especially for those seeking the highest levels of athletic performance. But in the interest of being open-minded, let’s leave it at this: Despite its many inadequacies, CrossFit is a workout system that is continually evolving. It’ll be interesting to see how the program changes as more athletes, and non-athletes, participate in this program.[/quote]
The take home message I guess is that someday, perhaps, CrossFit will not suck? This is really an unfortunate situation as I think the two camps have much to offer each other. I think Charles would appreciate and actually LIKE the holistic nature of CrossFit. I also think many people in CrossFit could benefit from Poliquin’s knowledge of high-end strength/power training, planning and nutrition.
Ido Portal did a blog post recently on Jack of All Trades. He makes a solid, irrefutable point that one would be best served coming to something like CrossFit with a year of o-lifting instruction and a year of gymnastics instruction, and then layering on significant metabolic conditioning. This is an enviable sequence of events that I think we would all kill to accomplish. The reality is that this is not a reasonable proposition for most CrossFit devotees to DO this. It is possible for coaches to shift focus and help their clients to bring this base up as best they can. In fact this is the criteria by which Glassman (founder of CF) judges coaches in and out of CrossFit?the ability to build this well rounded base. When you see affiliates doing 30 min long WOD’s, day in, day out, you know the instruction and coaching suck. These folks need to get a clue.
Something to keep in mind however is that the folks doing CrossFit are also: running a business, fighting wars, raising children, fighting fires and arresting criminals. They are normal folks doing incredibly hard things amidst friends. I think this is still something that escapes folks like Poliquin, Boyle and the various and sundry haters out there. CrossFit has taken Olympic caliber strength & Conditioning and brought it to the masses. You’d think this would be a good thing?I know it’s a good thing, other folks are slow on the realization of this fact
If it is not what you want, then don’t do it. I own a crossfit facility and train many athletes, military, and regular people there. Most of my people do the regular WODs but I also run other programming including girls for conditioning that I have built. I mix westside barbell stuff, Defranco’s and Rippetoe’s programming. I’m one of those who believes there needs to be more regular strength training with weights as well as gymnastics strength training for optimum performance and that actually a bit less frequent metabolic conditioning is necessary for best results.
If you are interested in this sort of thing check out what they are doing over at performance menu. There are smart, experienced coaches working on these sort of things.
I believe that crossfit is simply the best thing going as far as building conditioning. Is the WOD as posted everyday the best thing for everyone? No, but nobody is claiming it is, including crossfit.com.
[quote]1000rippedbuff wrote:
If it is not what you want, then don’t do it. I own a crossfit facility and train many athletes, military, and regular people there. Most of my people do the regular WODs but I also run other programming including girls for conditioning that I have built. I mix westside barbell stuff, Defranco’s and Rippetoe’s programming. I’m one of those who believes there needs to be more regular strength training with weights as well as gymnastics strength training for optimum performance and that actually a bit less frequent metabolic conditioning is necessary for best results. If you are interested in this sort of thing check out what they are doing over at performance menu. There are smart, experienced coaches working on these sort of things.
[/quote]
Are you sure Herr Glassman will still let you use the name if you do that?
I agree with you- mixing all kinds of things in is the way to go. But I think I get really reactionary any time something is either called “ultra hardcore” or seems like a cult.
Glassman doesn’t care, in fact he encourages it. The cult style people are in everything. Look at HIT, westside barbell, some of the assholes on T-Nation. They are everywhere. What I find is that in real life it is quite different the majority of the time. The internet equation always holds true: regular guy+a computer+anonymous+audience=asshole
i just pray to god one night that he graces
me with one of crossfit chick and that as she straddles me that she not rip my dick off
on the way up, lest i have a shit eating
grin on my face as i enter the gates of heaven, amen! i’m for crossfit if it works…
I was gonna point out the irony of having crossfit bashed on this particular section of the forums. After all there’s a ‘good at everything’ backbone to the concept of MIXED martial arts, too.
But then I saw all the crossfit girl pics and I got distracted.
when I first found crossfit there seemed to be a focus on MMA and its effectiveness as a training method for it. In fact over at Brand X, where they do all the WOD scaling, they have “crosspit” section speicifically based on it. Do any successful MMA fighters use it, out of interest?
[quote]Roundhead wrote:
when I first found crossfit there seemed to be a focus on MMA and its effectiveness as a training method for it. In fact over at Brand X, where they do all the WOD scaling, they have “crosspit” section speicifically based on it. Do any successful MMA fighters use it, out of interest?[/quote]
I don’t know if they use the WOD as posted but I think that a lot of them use the crossfit exercises and drills. The only one that I know of that has really stated he uses Crossfit is B.J. Penn, but I don’t know if he still does or not.
I basically don’t have a problem one way or the other with Crossfit. In fact, I think it’s a great all-around program for someone who wants to get in shape and stay in shape.
That said, the problem that I see with it is the idea that this is the best training for everyone, athlete, non-athlete, housewife, elderly, etc. Maybe not all Crossfitters have this mindset, but I certainly know of a some facilities that do, and it’s quite annoying.
I think it’s great to be passionate about what you like to do, but one should never confuse passion for logic.
This is not for everyone and I’ll leave it at that. It’s great for certain applications, just like the Westside model is for Powerlifting. However, to say that Crossfit works for all is about the same as Louie Simmons coming out and saying how his system works for all, even long distance runners.
That’s my only beef…outside of that, I like all the Crossfit chicks!
[quote]Roundhead wrote:
when I first found crossfit there seemed to be a focus on MMA and its effectiveness as a training method for it. In fact over at Brand X, where they do all the WOD scaling, they have “crosspit” section speicifically based on it. Do any successful MMA fighters use it, out of interest?[/quote]
Currently Vitor Belfort trains at Crossfit Balboa. I personally think Crossfit has its uses. It is great for conditioning and will torch bodyfat like no other. They have also started experimenting tailoring Crossfit to different sports for example Crosspit, Crossfit Endurance, Burgener tailors it for Olympic lifting, and I believe John Welbourne has a program modified for football. An affiliate also worked with a bodybuilder and gave him a workout to prepare him for competition.
However the downside is that it can be hard to balance crossfit with another sport. The workouts are very intense and a lot of times they can drain the athlete so much that it will be hard for him to do other sport specefic workouts. The intensity can also make it hard for people who have never done any serious training.
