Has anyone got a review for his Arms Race book?
I’ve got to chime in here. I do not understand all the hype about Poliquin at all. Some of you guys seem to worship him as though he is some sort of training deity. Perhaps you have been training for only a few years and haven’t had exposure or the opportunity to spend time researching and reading about the history of the strength game. Polquin’s programs that some of you mentioned here e.g., 5x5 training, 5/4/3/2/1, 1/6, etc. are NOT Poliquin’s innovation. Reg Park popularized 5x5 training back in the 50’s, Poliquin’s version is slightly modified from Park’s. 21’s, 1 1/2 reps, etc. are NOT recent innovations. These methods had been around years before Poliquin or King started writing about them again.
Take some time and read some old-time strength training books by Park, Paschall and other authors and you’ll see what I mean. I don’t mean this as a flame, I just want to point out that a lot of the current “innovations” you read about by highly publicly regarded strength coaches have been around a long, long time.
Gunnar, many of us know that these programs have been around for many years. John McCallum was talking about these things since the 50’s and 60’s.
The point I’m trying to make is that you have a description of all these set/rep schemes in one book. So it’s easy to read and follow. Many have complained that the book is nothing more than other articles that Poliquin has written. This is true. My point is that it is now in one place as an easy reference point. Believe me, there are many other books I recommend above this one. But it does come in handy when trying to figure out the best set/rep combos to use in your training.
I think Poliquin is still one of the best strength coaches in the world. Just looked at all the athletes he’s trained and what diverse sports they’re in. If someone follows him closely & reads every article he writes, I think it’s natural to see some of his stuff more than once. I too was a little disappointed when I saw in the Principles a bunch of stuff I’d seen in MM2k, but there was still some new stuff. As for him lifting routines off others, he does say that he reads a lot, but he doesn’t list all his sources. The rationale behind wave-loading & 1-6 was known to Angel Spassov in the 80’s, but how would we have known about it? I think Poliquin did a lot to expose people to different kinds of training. Dan Duchaine, for example, didn’t take training seriously until he met him.
Nate Dogg, I know there are a few people here that know about these programs, including yourself. I’ve read your posts concerning McCallum’s writing, among others, and you have a good appreciation for these types of works as a source of continuing training knowledge. It is good to have a description of the set/rep schemes in one book as a one-stop reference guide. And it is also good that people “re-discover” training programs like 5X5, etc. by reading Poliquin, et al. But, there seem to be many more newbies here, or people who have only been training for a couple of years that would find it beneficial to read some of these older works and realize where the current crop of “world class” strength coaches got their information from. It’s a matter of giving credit where credit is due.
One example that springs to mind is a recent thread topic on bent-presses. From reading some of the posts it's easy to see that a number of people may believe this is some sort of new, exotic exercise and not realize that someone like Arthur Saxon was bent-pressing over 300lbs. back in the early 1900's. This is a great exercise that is being "re-discovered" but there is seldom mention made of some of the former strength athletes that were responsible for popularizing the movements. I just like to give credit where credit is due and offer some respect for some of these old-time lifters that a lot of people don't know about. I liken it to a professional baseball player who has respect for the game and players that came before him like Ruth, Gehrig, etc. and what the contributions these individuals made to the game.
The prices on his books and what you get looks like a coloring book. I have Manly Weight Loss and its thinner than a pancake and has cartoon like pictures. The ads make me want to get this book but I remember what I got thhe first time. The information can be found on this site and it would just be redundant. I like Poliquin, but his books arent so great.
I agree, give credit where credit is due. Coach Davies may be making the bent side press popular again (it’s good that he realizes the value of it and is getting others to try it!). But we must remember that the old timers, like Saxon, were some of the original users of that exercise!
i just accepted a couple of years ago that anything poliquin writes is geared to those who just don’t know. we’ve all been there. i was so pro poliquin about three years back, but it didn’t take long to grow out it. jd has the idea…siff, zatsiorsky, verkhoshansky…those are the guys. i still have my poliquin’s principles from christmas ‘97–but i also have like a million copies of the old MM2K boxed up somewhere. i’m just a frickin’ packrat. what can i say?
jason
austin, tx
I have a question for all the Poliquin disciples out there; what kinds of gains have you guys made from his stuff? How much stronger are you, how much bigger are your muscles? And don’t bullshit either, I have seen alot of you jump on every post recommending some routine, so you can’t be too happy.
I do not know what the big deal is w/poliquin, he may help some athletes but what he specialises in has NOTHING to do w/building muscle. the guy also likes to lie, he says his arms are 19" (and I know the size of his arms don’t matter but that he LIES does) has anyone seen the cover of his book on arm training? if his arms are 17.5 I would be suprised. the other point is he promotes a volume aproach to training yet I’m looking at an article where he says volume NOT intensity leads to overtraining, what gives, and yes I know you guys know I believe in HIT but the point is the guy will say or do what it takes to make a buck.
hetyey: I don’t think he’s full of shit. He’s strength coach/consultant for tons of world & olympic medalists, sure that’s only a part of the equation, but it still matters. What he specializes in is strength training, which has everything to do with building mucscle; if you’ve got some goal, a strength coach (who’s been in the buisness for 20yrs) would know how to help you. If you think he’s lying about his arms, go to one of his seminars, he’ll measure them for you. He also seconds virtually every source when it comes to rep/set selection & I think overtraining can occur with an excess of either volume or intensity or both. I’m not a total Poliquin freak (really!) & I know about all the other authors others have mentioned & like them he’s just another source for info.
natey, I believe knowledge IS power so I think it is great to read diff. opinions. you made one of my points for me, HE IS A STRENGTH COACH! he is NOT a “muscle building coach” i do think he can help ATHLETES I just don’t see where programs that are usualy based on NOT increaseing size have anything to do w/bodybuilding. also I have heard tooooo many times about how nasty,rude,condesending,ect. he is when HE thinks a question is stupid or is from a newbie. I guess part of it is that I have heard very little good things about the MAN, but I just don’t think bodybuilders shoud train like athletes because there is NOTHING athletic about bodybuilding.
All these comments about Poloquin training Olympic athletes - who? I have bought a lot of books and magazine and until recently I never figured out, I have bought into the promotional crap.
Hetyey have you ever seen the picture of Poliquin doing scott curls with 185 and with fat grips. His arms are fucking huge. And have you not ever read about how his athletes improve their bodycomp as well as their performance. You might make better progress if youd be a little more open minded. Jorge if you had really read his stuff he tells you the athletes he has trained. I watched the damn bobsledders in the winter olympics. Why dont yall bust on people who arent worth a shit? Poliquin is a very knowledgeable trainer. If you knew half as much as him youd be better than 90% of trainers around.
ATTN Natey, Goldberg.
My question still stands, how much muscle have you guys gained following Poliquin’s routines? If you can’t say “A whole bunch” then what the fuck are his books good for? If you think clientel makes a trainer, there is an interesting article on cyberpump (titled Training to Muscular Failure: Does it “Teach” Failure?) which points out that HIT NFL teams have a winning record against non-HIT NFL teams. What does that tell you?
Football players, & any other athletes would never want to go to failure because, with all the other stuff (running, etc) they do, they’d overtrain & not improve & maybe get injured. Any good strength coach/consultant would be cognizant of this (like Poliquin is). I’ve said before that I’m going for size, but doing it the hard way (low reps heavy weight) so of course I haven’t gained a lot of weight, but using 1-6 & 1-2-3 wave loading (which Poliquin didn’t invent but introduced me to) my squat has gone up 80lbs. When he shoots apart someone’s idea, he’s always got serious scientific & empirical stuff to back it up. I don’t know why you guys are so down on him, if I coached 9 athletes to medals at one Olympiad, I’d think I was pretty good. Either way you look at it, you can’t argue with the results he’s got, unless of course you’ve coached 10 or more athletes to medals.
I used Poliquins methods exclusively while in high school and was way stronger than anyone around. Then when i got to college, i used his five day rolling split and went from 205 with 12%bf to 225 with 9%bf in twelve months. I think that comes out to 23.75 lbs of lean body mass which i think is a whole bunch. Im now 230 with 9%bf and can dunk a basketball with 2 hands. Hows that?
Just a note, some have cried that credit should be given where credit is due. I agree. And if you read ANY of Poliquin’s work he always credits someone with an idea here, or a program there, etc. If someone labels GVT or the “1-6” principle his, they are wrong in believing that it is solely his brain child, but who has made such training programs popular to the masses? Charles Poliqiun. Also, in my readin of such people as Zatsiorsky, Bompa, etc. etc., Poliquin’s practical application of training theory is right on. So I say stop kissing butt, but stop hating a succesful coach who honestly paved the way (by his writing) for people like King, Tate, Staley, etc. Before Charles in MM2K the only quality training info outside of books by Siff, Zatsiorsky, Bompa, Hartmann and Tunneman, Kramer and Fleck etc. was an occasional article by Bill Starr in a muscle mag.
Do you really think that no football players train to failure? The Washington Redskins started to failure training in 1982 and have won 3 superbowls since. Where they over trained and injured as a result? How can you prove that training to failure (in and of it’s self) produces negative results? Lot’s of guys (myself included) have gained lot’s of muscle training lot’s of different ways. If you pay $$ for a book and say it’s good, and that the author is smart, then there should be some real results. If a guy trains a half dozen NHL players (Bure, Mogilny, Sundin, and Jagr tear up the league and they don’t even workout!), what the hell does that prove? Skepticism saves money on snake oil.
This is my last post. Pavel Bure was the strongest player on the Canucks when he was playing there so don’t tell me he doesn’t work out. Virtually every strength training authority says that athletes have to use decreased weight room volume because of the other things they’re doing. I paid $$ for the book, I think the author is smart & I got some serious results. What’s your point? He trains elite athletes who get medals at the Olympic games so what the fuck do you think that proves?