To be perfectly honest with you shaun, I have never have been much a fan of dbol…
Seems to me you have to take far too much with far too many sides to get far too little results…
If you want a kickstart, then use something like anadrol at 100mg a day…
Or an interesting route you could take would be starting your cycle with tren ace…
Just a few thoughts for the day…
[quote]World1187 wrote:
To be perfectly honest with you shaun, I have never have been much a fan of dbol…
Seems to me you have to take far too much with far too many sides to get far too little results…
If you want a kickstart, then use something like anadrol at 100mg a day…
Or an interesting route you could take would be starting your cycle with tren ace…
Just a few thoughts for the day…[/quote]
And I’ll offer the counter perspective, although, this is not coming from personal experience. I’ll refer you to Cortes’ thread, The Dark Side, where on his first cycle, he used Dbol along with test, and had good results. The link is:
http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=1777722
Maybe he’ll chime in here.
I don’t think it is unusual at all to run four weeks of Dbol at 40mg/day. Based off what I’ve read, it’s another “tried and true” first cycle.
Another .02 cents.
[quote]Radjxf wrote:
IMO, at your age (no offense intended) you should minimize the “hard androgens”. Test and dbol together are a bad combo if you don’t like water retention and gyno. Turinabol or Anavar would be a much better choice if they are available and affordable.
With those two, you’ll definately need Arimidex, however IMO the taper is unnecesarry and the dosages are too high. I’d start at week 2-3 with 0.5mg/EOD and adjust from there.
I’d also drop the EQ. OK for strength increases, but causes panic attacks in many.
Lastly, for PCT, in recent years many are getting away from Clomid as a high-dose Nolvadex protocol is just as effective with favorable results and less sides (clomid-induced depression for ex).
Also consider HCG at 500iu every 5 days throught the cycle, seems to help maintain testicular mass and stimulates LH/FSH. Good luck.
Since needles are plentiful and cheap online, I’d draw with an 18ga, and inject with a 25ga. Heat the filled syringe under hot running water or zap in the microwave before injecting. Good luck.[/quote]
You wave your gear??? Also, you realize there are bacteria in tap water right?
Think we might be getting side tracked on this thread here :))
The real issue is what should we kick start this cycle with. DBOL, ANADROL or TREN ACE??
I thought DBOl was a fairly universal product for using in the beginning of a cycle with TEST.
I seem to remember reading on here that ANADROL can’t aromatise. I could be wrong though. Both are 17aa and so side effects will still be an issue either way I think, especially water retention?
Both are known for assisting size and strength with Anadrol better for sides maybe?
I know World is using Tren at the moment on his short cycle and is having huge success with it. Although I have read else where that the side effects of Tren can be quite severe. What the hell is “Tren Cough” anyway??
I thought at 30 - 40mgs ED of DBOL would be strong enough dosage for strength and mass but not too strong a dose as to cause too many sides.
Am I correct im my thinking?
I would be very interested in finding out why World (and I respect his and 5’s opinion a lot)prefers ANADROL and TREN.
Any comments on this would be most welcome.
Tren is something that should be reserved for the more experienced user.
The Dbol at 30-40mg a day, for the first four weeks, is still in keeping with the KISS principle for first cycles.
[quote]5.0 wrote:
World1187 wrote:
To be perfectly honest with you shaun, I have never have been much a fan of dbol…
Seems to me you have to take far too much with far too many sides to get far too little results…
If you want a kickstart, then use something like anadrol at 100mg a day…
Or an interesting route you could take would be starting your cycle with tren ace…
Just a few thoughts for the day…
And I’ll offer the counter perspective, although, this is not coming from personal experience. I’ll refer you to Cortes’ thread, The Dark Side, where on his first cycle, he used Dbol along with test, and had good results. The link is:
http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=1777722
Maybe he’ll chime in here.
I don’t think it is unusual at all to run four weeks of Dbol at 40mg/day. Based off what I’ve read, it’s another “tried and true” first cycle.
Another .02 cents.[/quote]
Thanks 5.0. I was actually just about to say something when I read this post.
I had terrific results from dbol. The effects, for me, were basically immediate, and I did not experience any negative side effects the entire four weeks I ran it (2 weeks at 30mgs ED, 2 weeks at 40mgs ED). I love it and would absolutely recommend it. That said, some people are affected negatively by it, and you could be one, so who knows.
To Shaun, good luck with your cycle, man. Looks like you are going about it the right way. The people that do that end up having very, very good results. If you want to read another good thread, JellyRoll’s My First Time thread is terrific, and inspired me to start my own first cycle.
[quote]5.0 wrote:
Tren is something that should be reserved for the more experienced user.
The Dbol at 30-40mg a day, for the first four weeks, is still in keeping with the KISS principle for first cycles.[/quote]
Yup. I wouldn’t mess with tren yet, it’s about as heavy as it gets, when it come to AAS. Believe me, you’ll experience plenty of results from test and dbol. It’s fun to get those results from the start, too.
Thankes Cortes, 5. I will certainly stay away from Tren right now. Have a few concerns about Dbol at my age, and it’s side effects though.
Thinking that maybe Anavar instead of Dbol might be the answer. With the Test. Seems a little less potential for sides?
Am very interested in your comments. I have had fantastic advice from guys on this thread.
I forgot this is your first foray into the world of AAS. Save the tren for later.
Go with something like drol or dbol.
As far as tren sides go though, the only one I have experienced is a bit of restlessness, but that goes away after a couple of days.
Thanks World. I believe that side effects are worse when getting to my age (nearly 50).
Would be Dbol be too much for me? Maybe Anavar or Turinabol could do the trick?
It’s unusual I think, to do a first cycle at my age, and I don’t want to screw it up. So any advice would be much appreciated.
Thanks to Radjxf for his sound advice too.
Assuming you’re going to run 12 weeks of 500mg/wk, followed by a stasis and taper, here’s my kickstart recommendations.
Anadrol
Very potent, also very toxic if taken for too long or in too great of amounts. To be perfectly honest, you could potentially “feel it” after only one dose of 100mg/day. Your first 3 weeks could have 75-100mg/day. Remember it’s highly hepatoxic, so be sure to take some protection. This might be a time to utilize your Adex as well since anadrol is known to cause a significant bloat and large amounts of water retention
Dbol
Pretty affordable. In my personal experience with dbol, I ran it for 4 weeks at 30-40mg a day and I’ve done that twice-- both to kick off test only cycles. I liked it a lot more than anadrol because of the fact there was nowhere near the amount of water retention or bloat that I experienced with the anadrol. I didn’t even use Adex with dbol and I had less sides than I did with drol and Adex. Pretty good stuff.
Anadrol + Winstrol
My personal favorite. I have used this combo 4 times. Twice for 3 weeks to kick off injectable cycles, and once I ran a 3on-2off-3on oral only cycle. The beauty of combining these two is that it seems to keep side effects to a minimum in me. It’s not going to be as cheap as dbol, but IMO is by far the best thing to kick a cycle off with.
Thanks World.
So the Anadrol and Winstrol combo should be run for the first 3 weeks with my 500mg TEST E running for the full 12 weeks?
Then come off via Prisoner’s stasis and taper method.
Keep the Adex on hand should I need it?
Does that about sum it up?
That sums it up perfectly.
The first few days on that oral combo, you might feel some water retention. It does not last long, so try to hold off on the Adex until at least week 4 is up.
Just remember anadrol is one of the most liver toxic drugs out there and adding fuel to the fire with Adex might not be the wisest move. With my experience thus far, the winny really seems to cancel out the drol’s sides.
In case you can’t tell, I’m really not a fan of Adex, but seriously be careful with it.
Yeah I gathered :))
What do you take for gyno, toxicity? It seems you just like to taper off.
I would be really scared if I didn’t have some AI or AE backup.
What about Dbol and Winstrol for 3 weeks instead? Seems like that should work too?
[quote]World1187 wrote:
Assuming you’re going to run 12 weeks of 500mg/wk, followed by a stasis and taper, here’s my kickstart recommendations.
Anadrol
Very potent, also very toxic if taken for too long or in too great of amounts. To be perfectly honest, you could potentially “feel it” after only one dose of 100mg/day. Your first 3 weeks could have 75-100mg/day. Remember it’s highly hepatoxic, so be sure to take some protection. This might be a time to utilize your Adex as well since anadrol is known to cause a significant bloat and large amounts of water retention
Dbol
Pretty affordable. In my personal experience with dbol, I ran it for 4 weeks at 30-40mg a day and I’ve done that twice-- both to kick off test only cycles. I liked it a lot more than anadrol because of the fact there was nowhere near the amount of water retention or bloat that I experienced with the anadrol. I didn’t even use Adex with dbol and I had less sides than I did with drol and Adex. Pretty good stuff.
Anadrol + Winstrol
My personal favorite. I have used this combo 4 times. Twice for 3 weeks to kick off injectable cycles, and once I ran a 3on-2off-3on oral only cycle. The beauty of combining these two is that it seems to keep side effects to a minimum in me. It’s not going to be as cheap as dbol, but IMO is by far the best thing to kick a cycle off with.[/quote]
Great info, World, very helpful. It seems the dbol is still the simplest route to take.
Dbol would be the simplest, cheapest, and easiest for 4 weeks.
The most effective would be anadrol and winstrol.
As far as what I do to stop sides? I use Adex on occasion for sure. Mainly I alter my diet. If I am feeling like a bloated pig, I’m probably eating like one. So I clean it up.
You’ve probably seen my pictures on here and know that I have a low body fat percentage. That’s not due to cardio-- that’s due to diet, your most powerful weapon in attaining the peak of human physical perfection.
[quote]World1187 wrote:
Dbol would be the simplest, cheapest, and easiest for 4 weeks.
The most effective would be anadrol and winstrol.
As far as what I do to stop sides? I use Adex on occasion for sure. Mainly I alter my diet. If I am feeling like a bloated pig, I’m probably eating like one. So I clean it up.
You’ve probably seen my pictures on here and know that I have a low body fat percentage. That’s not due to cardio-- that’s due to diet, your most powerful weapon in attaining the peak of human physical perfection.[/quote]
Yeah, your physique is awesome. My diet is something I’m still trying to get a handle on.
I also keep forgetting this is your first cycle.
To be perfectly honest, you don’t need a kickstart. Some people front load, I don’t really believe in that either. It seems that the best cycle out there is simply just test. Yo will definitely “feel it” by day 6-8. There’s no sense in using drugs now that you don’t have to.
However, if you can get them cheap… I’d suggest getting them and saving them…
It seems prices are going up and supply is going down… thanks beijing…
Hey World, just going off topic for a second. You really have to come to South Africa man. We have some of the best game farms in the world. I have friends who do bow hunting I can hook you up with. Plus we have some of the most beautiful country in the world, great cosmopolitan cities and the most beautiful women you will see anywhere on the planet.
Plus it is so cheap coming here with the mighty dollar, you can a holiday of a life time.
Let me know if you are keen and I can organise it for you.
World, I have seen your pics and they are awesome. We are going into our winter soon and the timing will be perfect for me to cut for summer after my cycle and taper. Just know I won’t get abs like that though :))