The hcg will allow some size to remain in the testes and let them bouce back faster post cycle is the rather simple explanation.
While using the adex at that dose you will have no gyno fears and bloat minimized with the lower estrogen levels.
I still like the idea of something like 350mg E3D for 8 weeks but what you have laid out will definately work quite well for a first cycle.
Thanks lilguy (and the rest) you have been a great help.
What dosages do you recommend of the HCG during the cycle?
Also is the stasis period actually neccesary if I am only going to be using Test? The 6 week period seems to be included to allow all other steriods to clear out the system before tapering.
If this is the case then it seems I should start the tapering in week 13.
Perhaps someone could clear this up for me.
I used to think the same thing. But since you kept your test levels elevated for a long period (the 12 weeks) the full six week stasis portion is necessary, so the reduction of exogenous test is not a shock to your system. It allows for a slow recovery of your own test, and you typically keep most of your gains, too.
Yes, my reading on the forums bares this out to0. Thanks 5, you’ve been a great help.
I have not been able to find Prisoners original post on this subject. I seem to have a problem with the search engine on this site.
Here’s a link to the thread:
http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=1134619&pageNo=0
Thanks 5. You guys have been fantastic.
[quote]shaun1rsa wrote:
Thanks lilguy (and the rest) you have been a great help.
What dosages do you recommend of the HCG during the cycle?
Also is the stasis period actually neccesary if I am only going to be using Test? The 6 week period seems to be included to allow all other steriods to clear out the system before tapering.
If this is the case then it seems I should start the tapering in week 13.
Perhaps someone could clear this up for me.[/quote]
HCG is simply going to be a matter of preference here. It will help maintain testicular size, but remember you’re injecting roughly 500mg of test a week-- so you’re shut down. It could potentially quicken your recovery, but at the same time the stasis and taper do a great job giving you a thorough recovery. Sounds rather muddled, right?
What I’m getting at is that HCG is not going to be a necessary thing here. It would be a completely different story if you were going to run a 19-nor for an extended period of time, but here you should be safe.
Also, IMO, the stasis period of your recovery is actually the most important. It gets your body to return to normality… don’t rush it-- the period post-cycle is going to be the determining factor in what gains you keep and what you lose. 6 weeks seems to be a long time for a stasis, but take it from me that after having run multiple cycles, the taper gets the job more than well done.
I also recall your plan to run Adex the whole 12 weeks of your cycle. I have mixed feelings on Adex. It does its job very well, there is no doubt of that, but sometimes the sides from Adex affect me more than my cycle itself. I’m not saying don’t take it, but at the same time I am telling you to be cautious.
Other than that, your cycle looks fantastic and I wish a certain rather portly member of this forum would have your common sense…
World
Thanks World
Other than that, your cycle looks fantastic and I wish a certain rather portly member of this forum would have your common sense…
Heh heh. He seems a like complete lunatic to me too. Been following that thread closely.
I am a little concerned about the Adex too. There seems to be so much conflicting info on it. Not sure when and what doses to use it, if at all.
What side effects does it have exactly? What would recommend instead?
Thanks for the help, not just here but on other threads as well. Your posts always seem to contain good commom sense.
Adex…hmm… like I said friend, it works, but some people just react differently to it.
Personally,when I’ve used it my mood swings were pretty intense. I also recall some insomnia and night sweats. To be perfectly honest, it was similar to what I am currently going through on my tren…
Recommended dosing can vary anywhere from ED to E4D with usually no more than .25mg at a time. Doesn’t sound like much, but trust me, .25mg is more than enough.
I said it in one of my earlier posts regarding Adex-- have it, but don’t use it until absolutely necessary in my opinion because of the various side effects.
Also, I never did really finish what I was saying regarding the HCG. Everything I say in the following is assuming you are running a taper to end your cycle. I’ll tell you to stay away from it period, unless of course your boys’ size really matters that much to you. They are bound to shrink a bit on cycle, that’s just a fact of life-- but they do come back post-cycle. Very, very quickly assuming you run a taper with an adequate stasis period.
As others have said, while on cycle HCG will do nothing for you health wise, it will simply make your testicles regain some size. That sounds harmless enough, right? Well don’t forget that with HCG, like any drug, you will build up a tolerance to resulting in larger dosages having to be used and also the fact it will take your body longer to recover its natural testosterone making capabilities. This is due to the fact that your receptors will not respond as well to your body own LH, ultimately resulting in the exact opposite of what you want to accomplish.
Hopefully you understood that slight rambling…
Basically, what I’m saying is this:
1.) cycle looks great
2.) have adex, JUST IN CASE
3.) stay away from hcg
4.) be sure to use the whole 6 weeks of stasis
5.) finsh your taper properly
6.) EAT BIG, LIFT BIG, GET BIG
[quote]shaun1rsa wrote:
Thanks World
Other than that, your cycle looks fantastic and I wish a certain rather portly member of this forum would have your common sense…
Heh heh. He seems a like complete lunatic to me too. Been following that thread closely.
I am a little concerned about the Adex too. There seems to be so much conflicting info on it. Not sure when and what doses to use it, if at all.
What side effects does it have exactly? What would recommend instead?
Thanks for the help, not just here but on other threads as well. Your posts always seem to contain good commom sense.
[/quote]
As far the a’dex is concerned, I think it is indispensable. It is a must have, because of the potential side effects of taking in high levels of testosterone.
More than likely, your body will convert some of the test you’re taking in to estrogen; therefore, the addition of the a’dex.
You will know when your body begins to have excessive amounts of E, as normally the first indication is bloat. Taken in moderation, let’s say beginning with .25mg every third day, you can and will control the bloat. What you will have to do is gauge how much a’dex dosing by the results.
If you notice that the .25mg every third day doesn’t do the trick, then up it to .25mg every two days. And go from there. There’s no need to be intimidated by the a’dex. As a matter of fact, the addition of it can turn a potential nightmare cycle into a fantastic one, with judicious use of it.
The flip side of the dosing is that there are a select few that never need a’dex. Those are the rare breed, though. You need to have it on hand, just in case you are more like the majority.
A’dex typically will counter the negative sides of test. Oily skin, acne, gynecomastia, and water retention to name several.
The only negative side effect I experienced with a’dex was when I was first applying it, I overdosed by starting with .25mg every day, which was a little much. My mood went to crap, But, I scaled it back, and things went back to normal. It could also effect libido if you take too much.
[quote]World1187 wrote:
Adex…hmm… like I said friend, it works, but some people just react differently to it.
Personally,when I’ve used it my mood swings were pretty intense. I also recall some insomnia and night sweats. To be perfectly honest, it was similar to what I am currently going through on my tren…
Recommended dosing can vary anywhere from ED to E4D with usually no more than .25mg at a time. Doesn’t sound like much, but trust me, .25mg is more than enough.
I said it in one of my earlier posts regarding Adex-- have it, but don’t use it until absolutely necessary in my opinion because of the various side effects.
Also, I never did really finish what I was saying regarding the HCG. Everything I say in the following is assuming you are running a taper to end your cycle. I’ll tell you to stay away from it period, unless of course your boys’ size really matters that much to you. They are bound to shrink a bit on cycle, that’s just a fact of life-- but they do come back post-cycle. Very, very quickly assuming you run a taper with an adequate stasis period. As others have said, while on cycle HCG will do nothing for you health wise, it will simply make your testicles regain some size. That sounds harmless enough, right? Well don’t forget that with HCG, like any drug, you will build up a tolerance to resulting in larger dosages having to be used and also the fact it will take your body longer to recover its natural testosterone making capabilities. This is due to the fact that your receptors will not respond as well to your body own LH, ultimately resulting in the exact opposite of what you want to accomplish.
Hopefully you understood that slight rambling…
Basically, what I’m saying is this:
1.) cycle looks great
2.) have adex, JUST IN CASE
3.) stay away from hcg
4.) be sure to use the whole 6 weeks of stasis
5.) finsh your taper properly
6.) EAT BIG, LIFT BIG, GET BIG[/quote]
Absolutely. What World said!
Thanks again.
I will definitely include the A’dex in my cycle, and use it as and when I need it, based on 5’s dosages. .25mg every 3rd day and play around from there. See what dosage works best.
Looks like the HCG is not needed.
I will also definitely use Prisoners taper for PCT. All the anecdotal eveidence points to this being the least painful method with the most kept gains.
What he says makes sense to me.
Some mates at the gym have criticised me for not stacking with some “kick start” drug like DBOL, saying I will be wasting at least 3 weeks of my cycle waiting for the Test to kick in. I just feel that this enough for my first cycle and I should show significant gains anyway.
This site is truly remarkable. Thanks very much to all of you.
I can’t wait to get started.
[quote]shaun1rsa wrote:
Thanks again.
I will definitely include the A’dex in my cycle, and use it as and when I need it, based on 5’s dosages. .25mg every 3rd day and play around from there. See what dosage works best.
Looks like the HCG is not needed.
I will also definitely use Prisoners taper for PCT. All the anecdotal eveidence points to this being the least painful method with the most kept gains.
What he says makes sense to me.
Some mates at the gym have criticised me for not stacking with some “kick start” drug like DBOL, saying I will be wasting at least 3 weeks of my cycle waiting for the Test to kick in. I just feel that this enough for my first cycle and I should show significant gains anyway.
This site is truly remarkable. Thanks very much to all of you.
I can’t wait to get started.[/quote]
It is true on the delay for the test-e to kick in. You are erring on the side of caution, and there’s nothing wrong with that.
You sound to me like you’re going to have a very successful cycle. Keep us apprised.
Thanks 5. Will do.
Will only be getting the gear in about 10 days. So will have to wait until then, but will definitely keep you guys informed.
[quote]Contrl wrote:
Panic attacks? Show me reliable proof that EQ has caused panic attacks in psychologically normal people.
We need to stop throwing around outlandish assumptions around here.
Also, what matters if the HCG would stimulate LH/FSH? I hope you realize that they’ll just continually be suppressed with everytime he administers the Test dosages. HCG E5D is a terrible method. If, and only if, he decides to use it, it should be strictly for regular use to maintain testicular size, not in these sporadic windows.
Draw with an 18g needle, eh? Do you realize that would end up punching holes in the butyl stopper and contaminating his solution? And why in the hell would anyone “zap” their filled syringes in a microwave? I’m not even going to get into how foolish that is.
Please refrain from giving bad advice.[/quote]
So what advice would you give, little Mr. Steroid Guru?
I simply state the HCG method will maintain testicular mass, if you don’t like it, what do you recommend?
I’ll admit the E5D method is probably a bit dated, but has worked for me. Some use an EOD protocol with lower dosages, i.e. <250iu EOD.
There are many different qualities of stoppers, mine do fine with 18ga needles. With the high benzyl alcohol content of most drugs, I seriously doubt you run any risk of “contamination”. Furthermore, the vast majority of you guys are using HOMEBREWED drugs!
You can warm up a syringe in the microwave briefly, or as I do, screw on a sterile, capped needle and run the syringe under hot water for a bit to facilitate flow. Nothing is exposed to the water, thus no contamination.
Either give the OP some worthwhile advice or STFU.
Better yet, acc to your stats perhaps you should go workout and take some roids rather than attacking my post trying to help the guy.
[quote]Radjxf wrote:
Contrl wrote:
Panic attacks? Show me reliable proof that EQ has caused panic attacks in psychologically normal people.
We need to stop throwing around outlandish assumptions around here.
Also, what matters if the HCG would stimulate LH/FSH? I hope you realize that they’ll just continually be suppressed with everytime he administers the Test dosages. HCG E5D is a terrible method. If, and only if, he decides to use it, it should be strictly for regular use to maintain testicular size, not in these sporadic windows.
Draw with an 18g needle, eh? Do you realize that would end up punching holes in the butyl stopper and contaminating his solution? And why in the hell would anyone “zap” their filled syringes in a microwave? I’m not even going to get into how foolish that is.
Please refrain from giving bad advice.
So what advice would you give, Mr. 194lb expert?
I simply state the HCG method will maintain testicular mass, if you don’t like it, what do you recommend?
There are many different qualities of stoppers, mine do fine with 18ga needles.
Either give the OP some worthwhile advice or STFU.
[/quote]
Mind you, that’s 194lb cut at 67 inches and a year ago. You’re barking up the wrong tree.
My ego aside, advice is precisely what I gave. I’ll grant you the benefit of a reading disability, but gladly invite you to re-read my post. You did not state HCG was simply for preserving testicular mass (mass and size are two entirely different things, by the way), you were attributing some half-wit LH/FSH benefit. I assure you, your butyl stopper is not doing fine with those 18g needles, the problem is you’re not perusing your vials or the inside of your syringes (post drawing up) close enough.
Now kindly do as follows:
[quote]Contrl wrote:
Now kindly do as follows:
B…b…but… We’re supposed to be nice to fucking idiots now Contrl, didn’t you hear?
What if he really kills himself with a meat cleaver because you said so? How would you feel then HUH???
[quote]Contrl wrote:
Radjxf wrote:
Contrl wrote:
Panic attacks? Show me reliable proof that EQ has caused panic attacks in psychologically normal people.
We need to stop throwing around outlandish assumptions around here.
Also, what matters if the HCG would stimulate LH/FSH? I hope you realize that they’ll just continually be suppressed with everytime he administers the Test dosages. HCG E5D is a terrible method. If, and only if, he decides to use it, it should be strictly for regular use to maintain testicular size, not in these sporadic windows.
Draw with an 18g needle, eh? Do you realize that would end up punching holes in the butyl stopper and contaminating his solution? And why in the hell would anyone “zap” their filled syringes in a microwave? I’m not even going to get into how foolish that is.
Please refrain from giving bad advice.
So what advice would you give, Mr. 194lb expert?
I simply state the HCG method will maintain testicular mass, if you don’t like it, what do you recommend?
There are many different qualities of stoppers, mine do fine with 18ga needles.
Either give the OP some worthwhile advice or STFU.
Mind you, that’s 194lb cut at 67 inches and a year ago. You’re barking up the wrong tree.
My ego aside, advice is precisely what I gave. I’ll grant you the benefit of a reading disability, but gladly invite you to re-read my post. You did not state HCG was simply for preserving testicular mass (mass and size are two entirely different things, by the way), you were attributing some half-wit LH/FSH benefit. I assure you, your butyl stopper is not doing fine with those 18g needles, the problem is you’re not perusing your vials or the inside of your syringes (post drawing up) close enough.
Now kindly do as follows:
I’ve yet to see you offer ANYTHING worthwhile to this post, other than attack me from behind your keyboard.
You’ve worked out for what, 5 yrs and you’re giving advice on this forum??
Anyone who can read can see that I simply offered my opinion, and you come back with some roid-raged, short-man syndrome induced personal attack on me???
The OP should thank YOU for completely derailing his thread.
Now march back down to your parent’s basement and send me another useless post…
Rad… why are you destroying this marvelous thread?
Got to order my gear soon and starting to have serious thoughts about adding DBOl to the list.
Thinking on the lines of 30 to 40mg of DBOL ED for the first 4 weeks to go with the Test E.
Can’t help thinking I need to kick start this cycle off.