Plan to Avoid Derailing

Bigger Stronger Leaner
1

Hi T-Nation :smiley:

I plan to start a new routine and new diet on June 2nd. I have gone from 180LBS ~12%bf to my current 217LBS ~16%bf in the last year using my old routine and diet so it’s not like im switching all the time. I am 6’2" 22y/o

My basic problem is that i despise preparing food. I hate cooking more than 2-3 meals a day and trying to do this often leads to me saying “fuck it, ill just go buy a chicken burger at KFC” or something to that effect. With this in mind I have designed my diet to really cut down on preparation times etc, which will help me stick to it very strictly.

Goal: to be a lean 225LBS, which will no doubt involve me getting to ~240LBS then attempting my first cut.

What I need from you: critique my diet and make any suggestions you feel appropriate.

Meal 1 (7:00am)- whey isolate, creatine, fruit juice
I’ve been reading a lot about spiking insulin first thing in the morning with fruit juice in order to better absorb the protein and creatine, hence only whey isolate, no fats or lactose to slow down absorbtion

Meal 2 (7:30am)- 10 egg whites with 3 yolks (scrambled), 3 slices brown bread (toasted with butter), cup of coffee)
This is 30 mins after my first meal by which time the whey should have been absorbed.

-WORKOUT- (9:00am)
Meal 3 (during the workout, not after)- whey isolate, creatine, glutamine, vitimin C powder
I’ve read a lot about Vit C minimizing cortisol production, plus it has citric acid to spike insulin again so the protein and creatine can be absorbed.

Meal 4 (PWO, 11:00am)- Beef Stirfry, White Rice
I chose white rice because the body is depleted PWO to help get that glycogen back into the muscle quickly. Beef stifry as opposed to chicken for the extra creatine.

Meal 5 (2:00pm)- Pea Protein (unflavoured), Peanut Butter and Banana Smoothie
I chose pea protein because I can get it cheap, it has 36g protein which makes over 40g for the shake as a whole, and I wanted to vary the protein sources to avoid becoming lactose intolerant. Also because it only requires throwing into a blender, less than 1 minute prep time,

Meal 6 (4:00pm)- Tuna Sandwich using brown bread veggies and cheese
Slow release carb in the brown bread and varying up the protein sources by adding in a fish protein. the cheese is to get the extra calories.

Meal 7 (6:30pm)- Pea Protein (unflavoured), Peanut Butter and Banana Smoothie
See above

Meal 8 (9:00pm)- Cheap whey protein (a mix of isolate and casein) mixed with milk, fish oils and multivitamin
Because of the casein in the shake, the milk and the fats that are present i am hoping that this will slow down absorbtion time and allow a prolonged release throughout the night.

Summary of questions:
-what do you think of the diet generally?

-what do you think about using pea protein bearing in mind it works out about 50c per serving

-is varying my protein sources like this a good idea? sources include
1)isolate from morning and during workout shakes
2)egg protein from meal 2
3)beef protein, meal 3
4)pea protein, meals 5 +7
5)nut protein, meals 5 +7
6)fish protein, meal 6
7)milk protein, meal 8

-i need a suggestion for something to add to meal 4 which is post workout to add some more protein, but it needs to be a protein which can be easily absorbed because that works best with the white rice for the post workout period.

Appreciate any advice guys and my bad about it being so long :slight_smile:

-IrishOak

2

Calories? Macros?

  1. You seem to be overthinking it a bit with the ‘fruit juice to aid absorption’ ‘beef for extra creatine’ etc. The protein will slow down the digestion of the sugars, blunting the insulin spike. Unless you are eating a cow, the amount of creatine is negligible compared to just taking some creatine mono.

  2. Is there any reason you are eating 8 times a day?

  3. Pea Protein is fine but has a strong taste and generally takes a lot more water than whey to mix with.

  4. You don’t need slow release protein through the night

  5. Despite the aforementioned 8 feedings, you only seem to be eating two actual meals per day, plus a sandwich and shakes. Any reason?

Will it work? Assuming adequate calories/macros, of course.
Is it far too complex? Yes

3

I’m not gonna give advice on your diet, but I can give a tip on food prep. Cook in bulk. I buy eggs by the 2.5 dozen, sometimes 5 dozen at a time, and hardboil half of em. I often cook up multiple pounds of chicken, so I can throw it in a stirfry later in the week, or a sandwich. Way I figure it, that kinda prep time adds up to about the same as travel time to KFC. (Im guilty of this too though)

4

[quote]roon12 wrote:
Calories? Macros?

  1. You seem to be overthinking it a bit with the ‘fruit juice to aid absorption’ ‘beef for extra creatine’ etc. The protein will slow down the digestion of the sugars, blunting the insulin spike. Unless you are eating a cow, the amount of creatine is negligible compared to just taking some creatine mono.

  2. Is there any reason you are eating 8 times a day?

  3. Pea Protein is fine but has a strong taste and generally takes a lot more water than whey to mix with.

  4. You don’t need slow release protein through the night

  5. Despite the aforementioned 8 feedings, you only seem to be eating two actual meals per day, plus a sandwich and shakes. Any reason?

Will it work? Assuming adequate calories/macros, of course.
Is it far too complex? Yes[/quote]

Thanks for the fast reply man. I’ll address each of your points in turn.

Calories are around 4000 per day, and easily ajustable by manipulation of the size of the bread/ peanut butter/ rice quantities. not sure total carbs or fats but i have generally structured it to provide slow release carbs throughout the day, fast release carbs post w/o and little to no carbs in the evening, which is where the higher amount of fats comes in from the PB and milk. Protein is 350g per day

1: yeah man the fruit juice is mostly to get me going in the morning because the eggs take a while to prepare and i like to get a shake into me first thing when i get up. forgot to mention that the creatine is in fact creatine monohydrate

2: I think that the 8 meals a day thing is deceptive because meals 1 and 2 are basically at the same time, my workout drink is listed as a meal and a lot of them are just shakes, I just didnt know how else to format it so i could get all the information in.

to answer the “why” i am of the opinion that eating small and often is the best way to go in terms of anabolic effect and minimizing fat storage, and since the preparation times are virtually non existant for many of the meals why not do it if you can?

3: yeah the pea protein will be thrown into a blender with a banana and a big spoon of peanut butter so mixing shouldn’t be an issue

4: why dont i need slow release protein through the night?

5: I would say that i’m eating 3 solid meals a day and not 2 because my tuna sandwiches are a sight to behold, and i feel that they definitely count as a solid meal lol. but only 3 solid meals really cuts down on my prep times, which is the element of diet that i have problems with, and what usually leads to me derailing. i figure if i can stick to a 3 solid meals a day with smart supplementation (as i hope is already evident from my explanation of the meals) then i have a sound chance of really sticking to it and not binging.

I would appreciate any more comments from you about this post as i’ve done my best to address the issues you have raised. thanks again for the reply man

one thing i noticed you didnt touch on was the issue of varying protein sources, do you have any opinions on that?

[quote]mkral55 wrote:
I’m not gonna give advice on your diet, but I can give a tip on food prep. Cook in bulk. I buy eggs by the 2.5 dozen, sometimes 5 dozen at a time, and hardboil half of em. I often cook up multiple pounds of chicken, so I can throw it in a stirfry later in the week, or a sandwich. Way I figure it, that kinda prep time adds up to about the same as travel time to KFC. (Im guilty of this too though)[/quote]

yeah tell me about it man.

i see your point about preparing in advance, i did that for a while where i would carry around lunch boxes with all my pre cooked meals and take them with me to the library or to work etc.

however, knowing myself and my tendencies i will inevitably forget to do the prep one day, which leads to another screw up. the reason i thought up this diet was that it’s easy to follow and prep time is minimal so i can see myself really keeping with it.

i’d also like to know your views about the importance of varying protein sources since you don’t want to comment on the diet per say.

i appreciate the contribution though man and i hope i’ve made my reasoning clear as best i can.

More comments by anyone welcomed

-IrishOak

5

OK, without getting into a large debate over meal frequency since it has been covered before and usually ends up in pointless arguing, there is no evidence that meal frequency has any effect on body composition. However, if this plan suits your schedule then do it. The important point is that it is sustainable long term.

Calories/macros look fine, adjust as necessary depending on gains.

Not sure if I worded the pea protein thing very well. (If you’ve been using it already then you probably know this so ignore the following). What I meant was that a scoop of pea protein in say 300ml of water (random number) will create a much thicker liquid than a scoop of whey in the same amount of water. It’s not difficult to mix in a shaker, just a lot thicker.
Since you are adding it to other thickening stuff (banana and PB) you will probably need a lot more liquid to avoid ending up with a cement-like texture.

The slow release protein issue is similar to the meal frequency issue. Whey protein taken in isolation (on an empty stomach) digests at a rate of roughly 10g/hour. This is the fastest of any protein source (except newer hydrolysates), e.g cooked egg protein is absorbed at 2.9g/hour. So after a day of eating you still have plenty of protein being absorbed.

Varying protein sources is largely personal preference, as long as you are eating quality sources then I doubt there will be any noticeable difference.

The biggest thing is sustainability. Can you realistically stick to this until you reach your goal? There’s also nothing wrong with KFC chicken burgers either as long as they aren’t the entirety of your diet.

EDIT: Fiber. Forgot about this, high protein, lots of eggs and low fiber = an unpleasant time. Make sure you get enough, either in the veg listed or get some psyllium husk powder.

6

[quote]roon12 wrote:
OK, without getting into a large debate over meal frequency since it has been covered before and usually ends up in pointless arguing, there is no evidence that meal frequency has any effect on body composition. However, if this plan suits your schedule then do it. The important point is that it is sustainable long term.

Calories/macros look fine, adjust as necessary depending on gains.

Not sure if I worded the pea protein thing very well. (If you’ve been using it already then you probably know this so ignore the following). What I meant was that a scoop of pea protein in say 300ml of water (random number) will create a much thicker liquid than a scoop of whey in the same amount of water. It’s not difficult to mix in a shaker, just a lot thicker.
Since you are adding it to other thickening stuff (banana and PB) you will probably need a lot more liquid to avoid ending up with a cement-like texture.

The slow release protein issue is similar to the meal frequency issue. Whey protein taken in isolation (on an empty stomach) digests at a rate of roughly 10g/hour. This is the fastest of any protein source (except newer hydrolysates), e.g cooked egg protein is absorbed at 2.9g/hour. So after a day of eating you still have plenty of protein being absorbed.

Varying protein sources is largely personal preference, as long as you are eating quality sources then I doubt there will be any noticeable difference.

The biggest thing is sustainability. Can you realistically stick to this until you reach your goal? There’s also nothing wrong with KFC chicken burgers either as long as they aren’t the entirety of your diet.

EDIT: Fiber. Forgot about this, high protein, lots of eggs and low fiber = an unpleasant time. Make sure you get enough, either in the veg listed or get some psyllium husk powder.[/quote]

thanks again for the reply.

I hear you on the sustainability, thats more or less why i designed my diet the way i did. through experience i know that cooking 5-6 meals daily OR pre cooking all my food in advance and storing it both don’t work well for me. I have had my best results when i only have to cook 2 or 3 times a day and the rest comes from meals that have very minimal prep time. I have tried all of the above foods so i feel good about them. overall i would say sustainability is a key consideration for me.

regarding the pea protein i don’t think i have an issue. i normally drink about 2 litres of water excluding that which i get from shakes, milk or other liquids, so simply taking a bit less throughout the day and putting a bit more water into my pea shake won’t change my overall water consumption.

I had no knowledge of the point you made about the protein absorbtion rates, so thanks for that. would you recommend ditching the early morning whey with juice or just keeping it in for an extra protein boost?

regarding the fibre i know i definitely need to include more of it. however i’m going from the minute eating no veg to adding some to my sandwich meal, so i guess it’s a step in the right direction. i never have watery shits so hopefully that means i dont have a problem but i’m aware it’s always worth adding more, so ill bear that in mind.

thanks again and look forward to more responses