PhilaSCS Nandrolone Fall 2023

Pharma TRT
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Well, nandrolone does convert to estrogen at around 20% the rate of testosterone. BUT it is converted to estrone (E1) rather than estradiol (E2) like with testosterone, and that happens mostly in the liver.

This is relevant because estrone is about 10 times less potent than estradiol. So it is likely not a huge deal, unless you are combining very large doses of nandrolone with testosterone.

BTW, nandrolone doesn’t increase the aromatization of test into estrogen. Rather, the progestin increase from nandrolone increases the sensitivity of the estrogenic receptors, so making the estrogen converted from testosterone more “potent”.

That’s why I believe that the “using more test than deca” is typically not a great approach and low test is better.

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165

Thanks for your input/ time. Followed you for a while.

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I don’t love the effects of adding test to Deca. The emotionality calmed down but I can’t even fathom sex right now. I’m going to continue long enough to test Estrogen and DHT and see if there are any clues there but my next experiment is to head back to my good place with NPP and add small dosages of Masteron to see what replacing DHT will do for the mix.

I’m thinking 200mg/wk of NPP
Small amount of estrogel to replace estrogen. (Pretty sure I have that dialed in from my trial)
Start low maybe 100mg/wk of matsteron.

I will be curious about your experience with test+masteron. I hope you report back.

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So far its going really well. I just dont want to report back anything before week 4 or so. I had great sex the other night. Body is back responding to cialis, orgasm was possible.

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I’m up to 100test 300mast and I couldn’t even tell if I’m on mast, except that my gyno has reduced more than if only on solo test.
libido is always high for me. I actually added 50mg weekly NPP just to delay orgasm because I was turning into a minute man :joy:

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169

This is my dream lol

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Totally off-topic, but I still view this as a male space and SAMA is no longer around.

Jelqing daily helped with sensitivity. So did the BathMate (I have a HydroMax).
Stopping (or at least significantly reducing) masturbation helped a lot too. Hell, if I wanted to nut during sex when on 600mg deca, I literally could not jerk off at any point for at least a day prior.

I think I posted it before, but Sterling Cooper (former pornstar/male sex coach) has a book with some good stuff in it to regain sensitivity and all that.

P5P is pretty much guaranteed to reduce prolactin, which will probably help with orgasm speed. Some data points to B6 working as well, but it’s not as effective as P5P.

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Im taking a daily B complex with 100mg P5P. That dose reasonable to contribute? Also have pramipexole but wouldnt want to be on that daily.

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I’m not sure what the upper threshold is on P5P dosing but 100mg daily is the standard recommended from what I’ve heard. Some more reading on max dosage is probably warranted if you’re still having issues with these things.

If you haven’t done the other things I put in there, like jelqing, kegels, pumping, etc - you sincerely might want to look at those. Why take supplements to fix what you can fix ‘naturally’?

Agree with not wanting to be on Prami daily.

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173

Im interested in jelqing and pumping for potential size benefits, but never heard it affected sensitivity. Im cut, so I always assumed taking the helmet off roughed things up a bit.

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I need some advice y’all. I got some test results back.

Currently taking:
200mg/wk NPP
20mg/wk Test

Feeling good. The sudden dramatic emotionality I got from adding test subsided. I feel less like an emotionless robot than I did with only NPP and estrogen gel. I feel connected to my partner in a way that NPP and estrogen alone didn’t allow.
I like that I have dropped the estrogen gel entirely. It was an hassle. My dick works when asked but not great and my libido is still pretty sluggish. I still am just not that interested in sex mentally.

I pulled two labs from quest.
Sensitive Estrogen: 25pg/ml (reference <29)
DHT: 20ng/dl. (Reference 12-65)

I feel like I am considering four options but i am open to suggestions. My goal is to enhance the mental side of sex and not lose this overall emotional balance.

Option 1) I could stop fucking with protocol for a while and accept that the lower libido may be the cost of a Nandrolone based protocol. After 5 years of shitty experience on TRT, I feel like my emotions are trustworthy. No matter what I tried I was always sliding around from high E to low with all of those consequences.

Option 2) I could throw on 50% more Test to raise both E and DHT a bit. This is simple and would likely raise estrogen to the 40’s and DHT to the 30’s and save from having more chemical components to balance.

Option 3) I could add a small amount of Mast to raise DHT independently and maybe realize some of Masteron’s libido and sensitivity benefits. I’m thinking 50-100mg/week. Yes very conservative but that is my mindset.

Option 4) I could add 50% more Test for a couple of weeks and then add some mast if the libido is still snoozing.

I am most attracted so 3 or 4. But I am also just really curious about Masteron and my DHT is still on the low end.

What do you think? I was surprised that 20mg/week of Test proved to provide this much E and DHT. I know it is VERY conservative but I really just value the level place I have been on NPP.

One more thing. When I tested prolactin on my NPP and estrogen gel protocol a few weeks ago, it was very normal, in the low middle of the range. Some say that NPP doesn’t raise prolatcin as much as Deca. That might have changed but I don’t have endless dollars to lab test everything every time.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

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176

I think the issue with nandrolone is the estro receptor sensitivity. Somebody will probably pair it with the right SERM or something and itll become the #1 stackable on TRT but go figure.

I think there will be a time where I retract a bit and eschew the libido endgame, live alone for a while. When that time comes it’s gonna be nandrolone again.

I’m putting new posts re: mast in the new protocol journal, but early on its very promising for me. I’d be extremely interested in seeing your results with primary nandrolone and secondary masteron, but it seems you’re moving closer to something like @Andrewgen_Receptors protocol. To be honest, my last e2 labs were pretty high, and at 200mg/wk test one way to address that would be to drop test and keep mast the same. If I did that currently, I’d be very close to his protocol too.

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How does your protocol look like now?

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28mg test cyp daily subq in AM
28mg mast prop daily subq in AM

196/196 per week, beginning adjustments not settled yet

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I would bump test to 60-80mg/wk.

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FWIW, I can accurately (not precisely) gauge E2 from the pictured area of my face. Not cutting edge science, but with how much labs costs, worth every penny this doesn’t.

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Thank you all for the advice. I think the smartest next move is to up the Test for a few weeks and see what happens there. If doubling my test doubles my estrogen levels, that would still put me in pretty safe terrtory. DHT could triple and still be in range. Then if I later add Mast, perhaps it would drive E down a bit.

I like this slow steady approach and really appreciate you guys.

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Andrew splits his time between saintly advice and poking bears in the stoneage off-topic tren cave. He’s a universal net positive.

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When I was way overdoing the estrogen gel on NPP, I never got the emotional effects of high E. It was wild. I was utterly calm and my estrogen was in the 80s. That said, my blood pressure was super high. Do you judge your E levels off face puffiness. That’s a good daily indicator. Helpful. Tests are expensive and they take forever.

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Like I said it’s not precise. There’s no way for me to know what number my E2 is at, but it’s accurate. That little fat ridge explodes when it’s “high” is flat when things feel better, and slightly depressed when things feel great. When Ive been rock bottom E2, it loses shape and sags.

I think a lot of estradiols felt effects are mediated through testosterone or offset or changed by presence of testosterone. It’s like having mom in the room. Every other actor changes behavior just a bit.

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