I 100% agree. We both had huge emotional changes when Testosterone came back in the room. I also wonder if our brain chemistry was a little altered by months without Testosterone and that first week we were just experiencing some big brain shift. I was a sobbing mess. I go years without really crying and after adding 20mg/wk of test I could hardly do my job for a couple of days. You yelled at your GF. I feel fine now, but that was wild.
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Ive become a firm proponent that people with ADHD need to use propionates lol. Masteron is the first prop Ive used, but something I love is actually being able to see/feel effects closer to real time.
I agree the introduction of test back into nandroland was awful for me, but introducing masteron prop and test cyp back at the same time sent me into low E2 mode immediately too, and Im now on that same dose of mast feeling fine. I certainly have always underestimated the time cyp would take and overestimated its daily fluctuations.
However, the sides I was having couldnt wait. Next time on nandrolone will go NPP and not deca.
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My own impatience messes up my clarity about changes too, but I am really sensitive to the emotional stuff and when I see a storm coming I feel like I need to change course. Propionates are a nice quick low risk way to make adjustments without long term consequences. I don’t know if it is true for everyone, but NPP didn’t raise my prolactin. I guess it doesn’t build up in the same way. It would be nice to inject less frequently though if I switched to Deca.
My NPP/Estrogen gel protocol was the first time I felt protective of the protocol I was on rather than wanting to jerk the wheel so to speak. TRT was always a storm, NPP/Estrogen was stable even if it wasn’t perfect.
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I’ve never dabbled with Prop, except NPP but PolyProp isn’t quite the same.
I’m interested in this though, I just never considered running Test Prop as I’m low SHBG and tear through Cyp in a few days anyhow…
Keep in mind that Deca and NPP, while the same drug, will interact differently. I’ll repost from another forum, by someone who understands the chemistry of these things FAR better than I ever will.
Nandrolone IS nandrolone, but NPP is NOT deca. They are very different drugs. Yes, the base hormone is the same. But ignoring the ester ignores the fact that they are completely different molecules and therefore have different pharmacokinetics and therefore different pharmacodynamics.
Boldenone and metandienone (dbol) are the same hormone, but are completely different drugs. The same goes for any drug with the same molecular skeleton, but with different moieties attached (such as an ester or alkyl group).
Even drug products with XR and IR formulations are different drugs. Yes, the active ingredient is the same, but the additives have changed the way the drug acts in the body. They are therefore NOT interchangeable.
In regards to additives, even the carrier oil used to make the injectable form of a steroid changes the way it acts in the body.
NPP does not equal deca. They are different drugs.
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I have believed this for a long time. Id love to know how the changes surface physiologically between test cyp and test prop.
Edit: @mrh1369 I feel the masteron uniquely apart from the test, as well. I know it is responsible for the difference in sexuality, so my next thought would be “would adding mast have worked with nandrolone sans test?”
How does Masteron play with Nandrolone without mom in the room?
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All super good questions. I’m curious too. I wish I could run two experiments at the same time. NPP+Mast and NPP+Test+Mast.
All in good time. I’ll update my NPP experiences every now and again here so I don’t derail your new journal, seems like it’s good to keep that space clean of talk of nandrolone if you’re going to be doing test and mast together there.
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I also wanna say that “mom” (test) has broken the emotional numbness of NPP/estrogen down a bit. I didn’t mind being emotionally flat if it meant not being anxious. a little bit of test has made things less numb for me without being too much. “Mom” is welcome in the room but I am wary of adding too much test and getting back to a place where I’m chasing side effects of too much estrogen with mom in the room. I value both yours and Andrewgen’s suggestions.
You have been aiming for similar goals as me if I understand you. I may be hearing what I want to hear but I see you trying to find emotional balance and a working dick after years of TRT disruption. Hearing that you have confidence in your Mast experience is really inspiring.
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I got my regular doctor bloodwork done yesterday and the results came back today. It is a non sensitive Test and E so I don’t really care about the results apart from trends. The Test was >1500 and I’m taking 20mg/wk and 200NPP.
This might be difficult to explain to my doc. lol.
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Lol so you at least have 1500ng/dl of covert nandrolone floating around.
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The sensitive E2 test thru nelsons company is like $70. I think testing single variables at a time makes sense if you’re not hunting for too many different adjustments to make.
Absolutely. I do all my testing there. This is just a set of labs my doctor runs for my six month check in. I was expecting nearly nothing to register on the testosterone test but boom! NPP spoke out loud.
I started Masteron 50mg/wk injecting E3D today. Will update. I’m excited and nervous. I don’t want to lose this chill, but I would like some DHT signaling in the body.
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Let me know how it feels with the nandrolone base. If it curtails any of the sexual sides Id be quicker to try it again, but I’m loving how masteron alters test-only.
You really do seem to be having a lot of success over there with your new trial. I’m really excited for you. I’m on the fence about dropping the test altogether. One reason is less variables. The next is less injections. The final is to see if “mom in the room” was indeed Test or maybe the DHT test produced. It would be really easy to dial in estrogen with the gel and DHT with Masteron and just leave NPP at 200. Today I just added it on top of my 20mg/wk of Test E. With Mast E and such a low dose I don’t think I’ll notice anything for a few days or injections.
Hope you keep your impassioned sex focus and keep your cool. That sounds like a great place to be.
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“Impassioned sex focus” hahahahahahha
Yes.
Dude. My once-a-week gym habit is paying off way more than I would have expected. I’m getting stacked by my body’s standards. I don’t mean to be taking a mini-cycle’s worth of NPP but my progress in the gym is impressive (for me). Maybe I was always under dosing Test (80mg/wk) to limit the estrogen balancing roller coaster or maybe I’m taking too much NPP. Not a big big problem but I would never have thought 200mg/wk would lead me to get big… but not hating it.
@mrh1369 would this be an option you are able to try?
Since you want to increase e2 and dht via testosterone, why not try a very small dose of 20% test cream on top of your NPP?
Maybe apply like 5-10mg on the scrotum every morning?
DHT will definitely raise with the cream applied on the scrotumn and so will e2.
I’ll keep that in mind. All these injections are a hassle. I’ve heard sexual partners don’t really love the experience of putting Test cream in their faces but that may have been just one preparation of the cream. Have you ever tried scrotal application?
Yes i have used it. But only the higher doses like 50mg twice a day, 100mg twice a day and so on… same result like injections, never got what i expect from trt. Acctually i feel worse on the cream… might be the high dht. And i know what u mean regarding thz sexual partners, but if you only apply like 5-10mg cream that is almost nothing if u see that on your fingertip. So i think the absorption is going to be much better with that small amount.
Hulk I have searched for an alternative TRT protocol as well as I don’t feel bad on regular trt I just don’t feel that good either - like my body clearly soaks it up and it’s much easier to gain mass, but I never get the mood or libido lift.
That said, lately I’ve gone down a few NPP rabbit holes. I see some guys using Deca or NPP solo and stating they really like it. What are the long term drawbacks of going this route, assuming it’s a protocol using lower NPP doses and not a “blast”
If you do NPP solo at a “non blast level” you won’t have any DHT and very very low estrogen. Low E2 symptoms are something most guys around here are familiar with having used AIs. No Testosterone in the body does a thing where libido is gone until you start actually doing sex and then it is okay. Low DHT is more subtle but in my experience makes sex harder to enjoy and feel connected.
The protocol professor hulk is pointing at in his post is where I am landing right now. I tried Masteron but even at very low doses I was getting irritable.
To get enough E2 on NPP or Deca solo, you’ll have to take something like 600-800 which is a blast. Even 200 is giving me the kind of gym performance I’d expect from a three day a week gym habit if I were not taking anything. I’m making gains which are out of proportion to the effort I am putting in.
I’m thinking I will finally take Andrewgen’s advice and take 200NPP and 50mgT and see where that leaves me.