PhilaSCS Nandrolone Fall 2023

Pharma TRT
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I’m a strength coach and live in the SEPA/SJ area. I survived an unlikely severe head injury as a child and discovered after a college and semi-professional contact sport stint and a host of injuries that I had some neural/hormonal changes. These were namely sub 200ng/dl testosterone (sensitive assay), outside-range high estradiol (sensitive assay), and consistently pegged TSH at 0.5 miu/l.

Symptomatically, I built strength well, built muscle well, could never get lean, could never develop aerobic endurance, had intense major depression, intense anxiety, angry irritability, no “physically felt” libido, and an erection that only performed if I was literally in love, committed, and 100% carefree. It was less romantic than maybe it sounds, for me anyway.

During this “natural low” span I had numerous injuries to most major joints, and totaled the following in somewhat relevant exercise:

Straightbar Deadlift: 515lbs x 1
Back Squat: 435lbs x 2
Power Clean & Jerk: 295lbs x 1
40yd Dash: 4.68s
Height: 6’0”
Weight: 235lbs
Bodyfat: 15% at lowest (calipers)

I started TRT in my thirties, and it did some things I needed, like kept muscle on without having to hit the gym all the time, but there was never really a resolution of the quality-of-life symptoms at the following doses: 70/100/140/210/280mg per week, all monotherapy. Using an AI produced an exciting effect, even at microdoses. It was the only way I was ever transiently lean or “dry” in my life, but I was never able to get a real handle on any consistent dosage that I could match to symptoms or seasonal bloodwork, and, admittedly, didnt want to spend the money on super frequent labs. So no AI for me for now feels best.

Labwork did, however, show consistently high E:T ratio, which seemed to resonate with the positive response I got fleetingly with arimidex. The bad news: on a sustained washout test cypionate dose of 56mg per week, split into daily doses (were talking tiny shots) my estradiol was out of range high, even with total test measured around 350ng/dl.

Starting today, I’ll be replacing my testosterone with nandrolone entirely for twelve weeks to see if:

  1. it is tolerable
  2. it produces quality-of-life effects better or worse than testosterone
  3. it produces coherent and useful labwork I can use to continue getting perspective on my physiology
  4. if it can be dosed into an appropriate (for me) hrt

My main concerns with nandrolone are obviously cholesterol scores and “deca dick,” but since the origin of the latter might be caused by large doses, withdrawals, or interactions with testosterone and estrogen, I’d like to give it a try as monotherapy.

If I dont like the results after the time is up, or if it becomes intolerable after a few weeks, I will get labwork and anticipate adjusting dose or adding testosterone cypionate back in daily at tiny increments and stop when I notice an improvement.

My job is very physical so my goals are mostly to heal quickly, achieve a reasonable body I’m satisfied with without too much extra physicality, create and be able to participate in a refreshing new training program, function better in my daily life, and enjoy more easily accessible intimacy.

Thanks for any constructive feedback.

Today was day one.

Day 1 - 200mg nandrolone

Too soon to tell. Working through a back injury and a pulled hamstring. Everything hurts. Will continue with daily shots @ 36mg and level to 252mg/wk.

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Just to clarify: you went from 56mg per week Test to 200mg per week Deca, working up to 252mg per week Deca?

Also, was 200 mg Deca today a front load, then tomorrow you are going to daily shots?

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This isn’t TRT.

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Why would you go to these doses? They are not TRT doses. Did your doctor prescribe this?

What was it?

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The amount of Nandrolone you would need to run would be detrimental to your health long term. It’s not that bad on cholesterol on anything, think cardiac remodeling. I understand what you’re attempting as Nandrolone only aromatizes at 1/5 the rate of Testosterone. However, Nandrolone use also has documented reduced cognitive function and impacts neural sensitivity / reward pathways. Summary… I think it’s a bad idea for your health but with a good premise.

Also as @BrickHead states, it’s not HRT.

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I guess I’m not sure why one would(edit) want to deprive themselves entirely of DHT.

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Thank you,

Re: Estradiol, has been in 60-100 range on test cyp doses around 100-150. On 58mg/week was 48 with low test measured. Ill have more relevant bloodwork in two weeks.

Re: not TRT/HRT, that’s fair. I’ve tried a lot of therapies including oxandrolone, supplementation, some peptides, hcg… as far as the doseage, testosterone started producing noticeable effects around 200mg/wk so I’m starting a bit above that with a larger first shot (correct) to “feel” any major differences that might be noticeable early on. Shots will be daily after that, and will try to titrate dose down if I feel successful to smallest effective dose.

Re: doctor, yes under doctor supervision, and yes I’d accept he’s a bit permissive/ thinks on the positive end more than the risk end. As far as risks, I’ll absolutely stop if things start going negative, and my goal is to learn as much as I can during the experiment.

Re: DHT, no argument, if I dont like the absence I’ll have to titrate some test back in.

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Hey keep us posted! If you’re willing to risk the consequences I’m always down to see how a little experiment works out.

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No worries and thanks again.

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I’d love to hear updates as well. I’m currently seeking to optimize on test and if I can’t, down the road, a moderate NPP/low test protocol is something I would consider trying. Curious how you feel right now on the 200NPP with a little test and E2 still in your system.

Because, FWIW, on another board I’m on, there are at least two guys that report having tried every trt protocol under the sun and feeling the best they ever have on 200NPP/60Test per week. They claim it’s “the way they imagined TRT would feel before they got on it”.

It’s not TRT or HRT. I guess you could call what they’re doing “TRT plus” because the test dose is a legit replacement dose. IDK. But if they look and feel 10/10 and keep an eye on health markers, I wouldn’t give a damn what anyone called it.

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Im trying not to post an update for a few weeks, but yes, this is what Im experiencing the first few days.

58mg of test is washing out from a daily plateau. Nandrolone is soft-peaking.

Notes:
So far so good.

  • less water held in face, visceral fat
  • joints feel superlubricated
  • anxiety/drive is pretty flattened across the board. Ill take it over “go go go freak out”
  • orgasms are more intense, sex drive is more consistent, less adhd on-off focus during sex, erection comes on a bit slower but hangs around better. I can “breathe” and exert myself without going into adrenaline mode, or whatever used to happen when Id start exerting myself: intense anxiety and immediate dead dick.

Giving it two weeks to shit the bed somehow, but waking up with morning wood again is awesome. TRT didnt do that at any dose.

I’ve been around long enough to know the first few weeks can be a lot of honeymooning through great expectations and placebo enthusiasm tho. First I want to see how the T washes out completely.

Thank you.

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Ill add Ive slept through the night three nights in a row, which might be the first three nights in a row since I was in college.

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One week without a testosterone shot.

*sleep continues to be restorative and uninterrupted
*ankles continue to function in the morning without walking on my toes for fifteen minutes
*sex drive absent stimulation remains low
*sex drive once engaged or stimulated is higher
*erection continues to be harder and more consistent
*morning wood continues to wake me up
*muscle mass looks like itll settle comparable to 250mg test
*abdomen and face continue to hold less fat/water
*the non visceral fat i have seems lighter and more watery, so my gut is flatter and more even but the “t shirt” around it is fluffier i guess

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This would all be from having lower Test levels. Nandrolone half life is 10 days. You won’t feel it for many weeks.

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You having any difficulty busting? At my peak on Deca 600/wk I was nearly unable to cum from sex. It had to be handjob or BJ - nothing else could make it happen.

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Thanks a lot, can you expand? Reason is I’m coming off a 58mg/wk test dose and would be really interested in how this lower level would be creating the benefits, especially as some of them do seem to be nandrolone-associated, like the flatter drive and lubricated joints. My e2 was still high on this dose, so if the e2 dropping into range is responsible for the sweet spot feeling that would be crucial knowledge. I do believe nandrolone peak absorption is 1-3 days after injection. Ive injected a bit more than 400mg total this week, so I wonder if I wouldn’t feel anything associated with nandrolone yet.

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Not yet. But I even if nandrolone “works” for me it could be because I find a tradeoff in sexual characteristics preferable. Example I might not notice delayed ejaculation because I already had it, though caused by anxiety and distraction. If someone didnt start there, the “flattening” and longer arousal period might be awful.

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I stay on Nandrolone all year, 180mg to 200mg/week. I also take test at 200mg/week. Only side effect is higher estrogen. I actually feel better with the higher estrogen. Arimedex kills my joints. The main purpose for me taking Nandrolone is for severe joint/arthritis. Without the nandrolone, I wouldn’t be lifting weights. It’s been a godsend.

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Again Im only a week or so into the experiment, but one of my favorite changes that’s sticking so far is joint relief. This is the first time in years I can wake up and walk without “warming up” my ankles into walking gait mobility.

Still the specter of dwindling testosterone in the blood that might still be powering some pathways, but ultimately that’s an easy fix if identified. Bloodwork will be really enlightening. It’s worth noting that I’ve done several washouts, and even going without a test shot for two weeks from a maintenance of 1-300mg/wk would send me into wild mental lows and depressive states. There’s been none of that so far, and some to the contrary.

I’m taking a long break from training so just looking at baseline experiences for now.

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I mean, it’s only been a week dude. The half life of your testosterone is like 12 days, so you’re not even at half eliminated yet… I think this is mostly placebo at this point.

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