PhilaSCS Nandrolone Fall 2023

I also thought about just adding masteron or proviron, but 99% of my 7 years on TRT was with testosterone so I want to see if the dht derivative can deal with the estrogen permanently. Even if my bloodwork comes back low estrogen, there’s no guarantee raising it with more nandrolone would offset the increased likelihood of worse side effects, and right now these particular side effects can not be allowed to worsen on long ester. Its a shame because, the chill the joints the muscle the water drop and even the sexual mindset are all great. I can say Ive learned a lot of significant shit about how my body responds to hormones, how androgenic and anabolic effects (like libido) actually feel, and after bloodwork I’ll have a good reflection on what those responses and feelings meant.

Something personal: I went through my entire athletic career after the injury that affected my axes. I hated every minute of it, was never in a good mood, always anxious, got hurt all the time, no libido, etc… Ive noticed a lot of guys here seem to see their TRT progress through physical exercise. My relation to physical training lifestyles is a warm one now, but I associate training heavily with being stressed and unhappy and hurt. My goal with hormone experimentation is to find a slightly supraphysiological replacement cocktail (between cruise and blast levels) that makes me feel more in touch with and more able to perform the things I want with my body. I want to use a bit higher doses to make sure I actually understand the effects I’m feeling away from the nuanced context of the experiences I feel them in. If I hit on a good protocol, I’ll start training again and looking at more long-term dosing strategies. But whatever protocol has me feeling my best self will be what I train on, not a giant cycle of the best tissue builders or water droppers or aggression producers, etc…

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I strongly identify to this statement : performance at a high level is correlated to stress, social distancing, mental distress, at least for me and those around me (in the gym).
I am glad to hear that your relation with PT is a warmer one now and I hope you’ll find a way to fine tune that even more.
I used to think that performance and stress go hand in hand, but that’s just a belief, not science.

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I spent the morning trying to track down what I recently saw that gave me this idea. I remember seeing someone say that Deca doesn’t have the right chemical parts to become true bioidentical estrogen. If I remember correctly, they linked studies but I didn’t want to read them at the time.

That said I can’t find it, so I’ll just keep quiet. File this one under “some guy heard something on the internet once.”

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Cool, thanks for the honesty. I’m not saying it doesn’t exist, i just haven’t seen it or heard about it.

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This book seems to have references backing up that claim (603 to 606),is someone able to get access to it please?

image

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/agricultural-and-biological-sciences/nandrolone

Blood drawn today; will get results in a few days.

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I can’t recall of I have asked already - but how does proviron effect you in contrast to Masteron? I realize they are both DHTs … curious to hear how they effect you and how you use them

I haven’t used proviron so i cannot personally contrast the two. What i can do is copy/paste the profile of Proviron written elsewhere. I hope it helps.

Proviron Mesterolone

Pharmaceutical Name: Mesterolone

Chemical structure: 1 alpha-methyl-17 beta-hydroxy-5 alpha-androstan-3-one

Molecular weight of base: 304.4716

Active Life: 8-12 hours (effects last about 24 hours)

Anabolic/Androgenic Ratio (Range): 100-150/30-40

Mesterolone is an oral androgen primarily prescribed to treat sexual dysfunction, lagging libido and/or impotency in men. To a lesser extent it has also been used in an attempt to increase sperm count in some individuals with varying degrees of success (1). It can be run for long periods of time due to the fact that it is not a 17 alpha alkylated compound. This enables it to not be quite as toxic since its not alkylated in the same fashion, but at the 1 position, which reduces hepatic breakdown. However, the anabolic effect of mesterolone is not strong enough for it to be used for muscle building purposes (1).

Since mesterolone is not used for anabolic purposes for the most part, there must be other reasons why steroid users administer this compound. First, there is some evidence that by using this compound when cycling testosterone, it may actually increase it’s potency. It appears that the mesterolone will attach to the sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) and albumin. This leaves a larger percentage of free testosterone to conduct anabolic actions.

Mesterolone can also be used for it’s action as an anti-aromatase. It is because of this function that many users will use it when stacking other compounds that may partially convert to estrogen. Mesterolone will bind to the aromatase enzyme. This in turn does not allow other steroids to interact with the enzyme and form estrogen.

Some competitive bodybuilders will also add mesterolone to their pre-contest preparation as many believe that it will improve muscle density and hardness. This could be attributed to the ability of the compound to decrease water retention and reduce the amount of circulating estrogen in the body, similar to many other androgenic compounds. However, as discussed earlier, there are several other drugs that could be substituted for mesterolone that are much more effective for this purpose.

Many steroid users who have had adverse reactions to testosterone, or otherwise do not wish to use testosterone in their cycle, will often add mesterolone to their cycles for it’s ability to increase the libido of a user. Often times when a user does not include testosterone, or simply not enough testosterone in relation to the other compounds that he is using, libido will be reduced and including mesterolone may help alleviate this. Obviously, the dihydrotestosterone effect of the compound plays a key role in this process (2).

Use and Dosing of Proviron

The majority of male users will find that dosing in the range of 25 to 100 milligrams per day of mesterolone will be enough to achieve their desired results. Females most often remain at about 25 milligrams per day, but many have experimented with levels far higher. Due to the active life of the compound, splitting the dosage of the drug so that it can be taken twice per day is beneficial, but the effects of the compound should remain for a full twenty four hours so it is not completely necessary (3).

Due to the fact that many other compounds are available that are much more potent and effective than mesterolone for the same purposes, it is seemingly unnecessary to increase a user’s dosage far higher than 100mgs per day. Instead one would most likely be better served to switch compounds are try a much more potent drug if the desired results are not achieved.

Side Effects and Risks while using Proviron

Mesterolone is an oral alkylated steroid. If used throughout a longer cycle it may elevate liver values slightly. However, this would be far less than would be expected with a 17-alpha-alkylated steroid. Its not quite as toxic since its not alkylated in the same fashion, but at the 1 position, which reduces hepatic breakdown. This change in the alkylated position would be due to the fact that the 17-alpha position reduces the affinity for sex hormone binding proteins thereby decreasing the ability of the compound to free testosterone (3), obviously something that would make the drug far less effective for it’s intended purposes. It is because of all of this that liver toxicity should be of little concern to the user running mesterolone even if it is for long periods of time, keeping in mind that other compounds still pose a threat.

The main concern with the compound is the possibility of androgenic side effects. Usually in male users these side effects will only appear if a user is administering rather large doses of the drug. An individual may encounter the typical side effects of oily skin, acne, exacerbation of male pattern baldness if the condition already exists, and body/facial hair growth. As should be expected with a compound in which dihydrotestosterone plays such a major role, prostate problems are also not uncommon with users. Women should also be aware that virilization symptoms are also a possibility with use of the compound. Deepening of the voice, menstrual irregulation, and other symptoms could all occur (1,3).

References

  1. Llewellyn, William, Anabolics 2004, 2003-4, Molecular Nutrition, pp. 140-1

  2. Schulte-Beerbuhl M., Nieschlag E., Comparison of testosterone, dihydrotestosterone, luteinizing hormone, and follicle-stimulating hormone in serum after injection of testosterone enthanate or testosterone cypionate. Fertility and Sterility 33 (1980) 201-3.

  3. Rea, Author L., 2002, Chemical Muscle Enhancement: Bodybuilders Desk Reference

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Test: (low-high unit) - lol

Testosterone: (264-916 ng/dl) - 34.2

Free Testosterone: (5-21 ng/dl) - 3.14

Prolactin: (4.0-15.2 ng/Ml) - 21.2

Sensitive E2: (8-35 pg/mL) - 7.7

SHBG: (16.5-55.9 nM/L) - 7.1

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Any reason Masteron would NOT be “indicated” similarly?

Thank you for posting your results, sounds like you’d have to take 600-800mg of Deca To get enough estrogen. Your prolactin also has my eyes wide.

I recently added 20 mg of testosterone a week and it altered the mood of this thing pretty dramatically. I think it shot my estrogen pretty high because I have been crying in situations that doesn’t really warrant it. When I first added it for a couple of days I felt like I was the king of productivity, but that was a honeymoon. I’m going to lower it a little bit more and then get tested in a couple of weeks to see where my estrogen and DHT are.

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Lol same boat. First day after the bloods I pinned 50mg test cyp. Immediate complete dead dick, no ability to even comprehend sex, bloated, flipped out on my girlfriend’s brother.

First off, your girlfriend’s brother probably deserved it.

After that I want to report something a little weird.

During my NPP experiment I used estrogen gel to make sure that I had enough estrogen in my body. I’ve had plenty of periods of low estrogen with aromatase inhibitors and it’s really not a good place for me. I get super anxious and my joints hurt and it just feels awful. So I used my joints as the metric to determine how much estrogen to apply and eventually completely overdosed myself because my joints were always a little achy. I got labs done and my estrogen level was in the 80s when it should’ve been in the 20s or 30s. I totally backed off of the gel and haven’t had labs since then to know my numbers, but I feel better.

Anyway, what was so weird was that high estrogen for me always included a lot of emotionality and spiral thinking, really obsessive spun up thoughts and crying. On NPP without Test, using so much estrogen gel I was probably up in the 80s for a couple of months and never once got emotional. Never cried once. (BTW, I work in hospice, so there is plenty of real shit to cry about.) I kept waiting for the estrogen-emotion-storm to arrive to figure out when I’ve had too much estrogen gel. It never happened and I eventually got to feeling like my gel from Thailand was bunk until I got it tested and it was in the 80’s.

So that brings me to when I added testosterone and immediately turned into an emotional person again. NPP always felt a little too emotionally distant and even robotic. I added a tiny bit of testosterone and now I’ve been crying like I said in my post earlier. So what I’m writing here for is to share that there is some relationship between estrogen and testosterone which produces this emotionality. Not that I have anything at all figured out, but NPP always felt really flat and almost robotic. I didn’t hate it because I was also not anxious, but Test + NPP has led to this weepy mess.

Not sure where I’m going to go from here, but I am certainly starting with much lower Test. Might add Mast later on to up the DHT and perhaps lower the Estrogen from aromatization.

I’d love to hear where you go from here. You’ve been a big help.

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My dude, anything you think you felt from 20mg extra test is pure placebo.

Even if it weren’t, you wouldn’t 'feel’a difference for 2-3 weeks unless you’re pushing propionate.

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I’m sure there’s a reason but i don’t know it. Probably the same reason why docs cannot prescribe NPP but Deca is fine.

That’s really interesting.

What’s the rationale for the ratio and NPP heavy mix? What did they say it feels like compared to regular ass TrT

Going to let the deca fade out and move ahead with test and masteron. Will have weekly estradiol draws for a month once I start and more labs if I find a spot worth settling on.

Higher estrogen is actually favorable when using AAS, as long as you don’t reach excessive levels. It decreases the risk of having a poorer lipid profile, helps lubricate the joints and decreases the risk of heart attack.

In fact, nandrolone increases the aromatization of testosterone into estrogen.

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It can lower estrogen a bit too much, which counters its potential positive effect on libido.

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Thank you. Curious also on the aromatization statement re: nandrolone. Much discussion of nandrolone paints it as a low-aromatizer that heightens estrogen reception. Are you saying when combined with testosterone it actually enhances estradiol conversion?
Edit: and youre faster than me on my own thread. Thanks.