How long are these guys doing the high deca low test protocol? This is very interesting!
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About 17 days in. Impressions that started days 1-3 have stuck and are getting more dominant.
- Flatter emotionality (i still like)
- Flatter sex response (i still like)
- Muscle is becoming more apparent on my upper body
- Fat % seems to be holding steady, but Ive curbed the last week of eating 30 snickers funsizes before bed… so lets see.
- Im having trouble with carpal tunnel symptoms because of my work; started in September but is not getting better. Fingers go numb at night and my grip is weakening at work… no bueno. I have some significant cubitus valgus at the elbows and might need an osteotomy to straighten my arms.
- weed is starting to hit me really hard. I use it to calm down but now I cant use it before work or Im useless. If this just ends up in using less weed Im cool with that.
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What do you mean exactly with flatter sex response?
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I have found the same thing. I’ve been experimenting with THC gummies as a last ditch effort to get more sleep. My sleep time goes way up, but I don’t feel refreshed at all during the day. It’s like I’m in a brain fog all day.
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Ditto. I’ve been much happier since quitting.
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I dont get “hits” of attraction or desire, or any sharp physiological responses to wanting sex. I cerebrally find a person or situation is conducive, which can cause some anxiety, like walking into a fight unarmed believing you’ll win… but once the actual behavior starts, the erectile response and sexual focus are actually more persistent. The entire thing feels slower, less up and down, and more intentional compared to an adhd-like model where I was much more easily “taken with” the desire to do something up until I was doing it, then easily distracted or discouraged midway. Hope that’s a bit more articulate.
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Convergence of the weed, impulsiveness, and transition narratives last night.
*Impulse is down on all things
*Weed is stronger
*Sex is flatter
=
Took some RSO dab and…
3 hours of sex with no orgasm. Like the orgasm would literally arrive like the BTTF Delorean and vanish as it hit me. Wild!
Instead of wigging out, I think it’s a cue to stop a lot of self-soothing and self-stimulation. Orgasm has always been more difficult to reach for me in sex if Im masturbating as well during the day/week. Self-soothing that way has always been a frequent impulse. Im going to see if letting the old boy off the hook around the house helps my tango time.
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This was my experience as well. Multiple times I was sure I was gonna blow, and then I fumbled it on the 1 yard line.
One of the few reasons I stopped cranking it tbh. It helped for me, at least.
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Needed this reply! Lol
I think at my old set points the impulse relief was useful or “necessary” or made some kind of sense. Now Im just doing it because Im used to it I think. Im thinking some dissatisfaction with new compounds is related to previous behaviors created from previous set points/ regimens. Maybe Ill like my new behaviors AND my outcomes better if they can conform cooperatively to a new setup instead of demand the compound regimen conform to all my behavior.
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I guess I’ll throw in some more context.
I started with 100mg test 200mg NPP weekly. Libido increase, took longer to bust, no ED symptoms.
Bumped to 100 test 400 NPP, same as above.
Was tired of being so oil-rich that I was a US invasion risk, so I moved to Deca at 100 test 600 deca. Started taking so long to bust that I couldn’t do it when fucking. was quite frustrating for both me and my wife, to the point that sometimes I would stop and just go to bed without finishing. Mind you, my sex drive was up to the point of fucking 5x+ a week, if my wife wasn’t too sore after 2+ hours of rough sex. I think we peaked at 9x? you get the point.
Did that for about 6 weeks and started getting some pretty crazy mental sides. Intense jealousy and mild paranoia (with nothing that would have warranted either). I dropped dosage down to 400mg/wk and it did not stop.
2 weeks at 400mg/wk with no mental reprieve and I bailed on the blast. Took a few weeks for the intrusive thoughts to go away, and I felt like shit for 2 weeks straight once I’d stopped blasting. Extremely unmotivated, slacking in school and at work, stopped lifting (the most unheard of thing here).
Anyways, I tried NPP again about 2 months later - just a 100mg shot to see how it felt (dumb, but whatever) and all the shitty symptoms came back, intrusive thoughts and struggling to climax. At least with NPP they cleared out in like 3 days.
I hope your outcome fares better than mine did, because I felt amazing on nandrolone but felt like I was in withdrawal when I stopped it. Experimenting with Masteron now.
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When I have time, I want to read through all of the replies and your progress. I’ve recently taken a fascination with progesterone, but haven’t gone about implementing it in much of a scientific way. Ideally you’d want your levels tested beforehand, which usually aren’t tested in men. Age, alcohol use, genetics, and steroids can lower progesterone. Tren and deca are progestins, and there is suspicion among some that they interfere with the receptors as well as reduce production, which is what gives guys gyno and deca dick since progesterone actually blocks prolactin from activating mammary glands.
Progesterone also reduces the number of estrogen receptors, which can make you less estrogenic. In 3 weeks of taking a few mg a day, my face and body leaned out notably. My sex drive shot up. I decided to counter it with more tren as an experiment. Ultimately I increased tren to over 800mg a week, but bp and other things kinda got excessive. Mood was very pleasant, though, and normally I won’t go above 200mg. Tren tanks mood, races my heart, makes me want to tell people to f off, kills my sleep. My sleep was also amazing except at 800mg. I’m back to 600 and feel great.
At any rate, lots of things can make a man store fat more easily such as low progesterone, which reduces estrogen receptors in the body at proper levels, and also affects metabolism, excess aromataze enzyme which actually increases as you store more fat, etc. Progesterone also increases glycogen storage in the liver, which can improve energy levels. I’ve noticed my energy and mood improve in the day, and my sleep improve at night.
Anyway, I’m going to read through this whole thread when I get a chance. I only read the original post so far, and just wanted to throw this out there.
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Appreciate that. Thank you. Ignore anything not related to nandrolone if you like. I dont care or expect others to care about whatever else I spew.
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Completely different update: 2ndary sex chars,
Across 7 years of varying protocols, I regularly notice the hair from mid-shin to ankle, on the insides of my thighs, and across my stomach change in thickness or even presence. Sometimes my bodyhair on the legs looks like capris.
Right now my legs are fully covered in thicker, softer hairs and my stomach’s vertical line from chest to pubis is now a wide swath. Hair on forearms is thicker and longer.
Misc: carpal tunnel continues to wreak havoc. Voltaren helps reduce symptoms at work but I cant grip well or articulate my fingers under load. Gonna have to get a couple wrist braces and sleep with them, methinx
Perhaps relevant.
Appears to show an even more gradual absorption/elimination progression for subcutaneous administration of deca. Maybe subcutaneous nandrolone decanoate is a setup for an exceedingly long experiment? Should I consider switching to IM?
You’ll have a slightly longer duration of the drug in your system, but it will take weeks to clear either way. But much difference between the two, so you might as well stick subq and enjoy the flatter curve and lower estrogen.
If you really wanted to bail on this, NPP would have been the ester you wanted - but it’s too late to unring that bell.
Carpal tunnel is somewhat common from what i recall. I know i got it during my run.
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Thanks. I’m definitely not going to bail unless I cant work. Did your CTS resolve while on the nandrolone or only post cessation?
I had it before and still have it now, it worsened while taking it but got a little better once I stopped. Couldn’t tell you if it’s worse than before or not.
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My beard recently changed from red to dark brown (my hair is also dark brown). I’m not sure if it’s from tren, progesterone, or something else. I really noticed it a few weeks in with the progesterone.
I don’t think that I have carpal tunnel yet, but I’ve stopped doing forearm exercises, and now use grips for deadlifts. I still do pull-ups without assistance, but try to be gentle on my forearms. Used to crank a lot of wrenches and screw drivers, plus insistence on not using grip assist when lifting.
How old are you? Androgens can cause facial hair to change for some. Mine thickened up, as well as got darker (some light hairs turned dark, and also the follicles seemed to get thicker which makes them appear darker).
I’m 44. Been cycling in general for over a year, and have noticed increased body hair and thicker beard. Color did not change until very recently.
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I’ve read through most of this. Very interesting. Some have mentioned increasing B6 for increased prolactin, and I believe that NPP, deca, and tren are progestins, which can attach to progesterone receptors, possibly messing with normal progesterone activity, and the general pituitary gland and testicle suppression would also reduce progesterone. I wish that there were more studies on this in men. Progesterone blocks prolactin.
On tren, (and back when I used deca), I’m having the same difficulty orgasming. It was worst at 800mg, but is pretty decent at 600 with my also taking 3mg of progesterone a day. Mood is good. Sleep is good. Men supposedly naturally produce 0.75mg a day, but the product I’ve bought is about 3mg per drop of vitamin E oil. I tried 6 and 9mg a day, which is nowhere near female doses, but it reduced the water in my muscles too much. They looked good, but smaller. Focus during the day was great, as was mood, and sleep was great at night. I’m not sure how adding this to your plan would affect you. It wears off in a day or two, though. I buy the product made by Forefront Health.
An alternative regarding your issues with not being able to lean out, being estrogenic, etc., is boldenone, which for me did not negatively affect orgasms like tren or deca will. At TRT doses, I found that a ratio of 2/5 with testosterone worked well, so I’d pull in 20mL of bold and 30mL of test E twice a week. I find that the ratio is decent at higher doses, too. Some say that boldenone only really shines at very high doses for building muscle, but when I increase boldenone, it’s as if I over-dosed on an AI–sore joints, maybe depression, low sex drive. I can’t imagine how some run it high.
The dude (Derek?) on More Plates More Dates said that some tests that weren’t sensitive enough which showed that boldenone aromatized half as much as test into estridol, but that a more sensitive test showed that it changed into very high levels of estrone. I tried to research what effects estrone has on the male body, but didn’t find much.
At any rate, it’s an interesting alternative, but it’s best to stick to your plan long - term for a while to see how it really affects you. There are so many ideas and experiments out there that others have tried, and when you read through all of them, it’s hard to stick to one thing. I guess that boldenone increases red blood cell count a bit more than other steroids, but not necessarily as much mixed in a TRT dose. My doctor said that my RBC was “elevated,” but didn’t seem too alarmed.
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