Phil Heath

Training
465

[quote]bugeishaAD wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]bugeishaAD wrote:
I thought it was pretty common knowledge most** pros dabble in SEOs to some degree or another.

**all

inb4 being crucified[/quote]

So, what about natties? If there isn’t a piss test or whatever for SEO, it would seem even more beneficial for a tested guy. But, it kinda violates the whole concept of being a natty. Is it as prevalent there?[/quote]

That’s a good question. I don’t follow natty bodybuilding closely so I’m not sure how prevalent it is in those circles. Stu, Thoughts, or Evan might have more to say.

I’d imagine you lose many of the benefits of the SEO by not being hormonized and having the “extra resources” so to speak to actually fill the space the oil creates with new muscle tissue.

Phil Heath is jacked btw.
[/quote]

Guys who know more can chime in. But if pretty much the highest rung of the ladder according to earlier analogies, surely mentally, very few natural guys would have it in them to jump from: Creatine > SEO and skip ‘everything in the middle’ They would have to be real cray

466

I don’t think it’s out of the question for natties to use it. A little site enhancement come contest day to make the biceps or triceps pop? I don’t think that’s unreasonable at all. Synthol isn’t only used to stretch the fascia and allow for more muscle to fill the gap.

467

[quote]gregron wrote:
We’ve seen this a million times already.

Prof X says something that comes across to some as ill-informed/niave/uneducated/whatever.

Someone will be off put by one of Prof X’s comments and they will think "ah ha! This is my chance to prove him wrong/“call him out” about it… And so the saga begins.

Instead of clearing up the situation by saying (using this current “discussion” as an example) “I understand drug use plays a role in professional bodybuilding, what I am wondering though is if he has made an changes to his routine that he has felt really helped his development.” (said in a non condescending, non-profanity laced manner… You know, they way human beings should speak to one another)

Prof X then proceeds to post in a very defensive manner, questions the other posters intelligence/reading comprehension/mental capacity… Therefor dumping 5 gallons of gas on a smoldering campfire. It could have easily been put out before but not now.

Now the accusing posters buddies all jump in and gang up Prof X. They say how he’s just fat/perma-bulker/can’t do lunges/looks like whatever… Usually bringing up things that don’t even have to do with the involved thread.

Now Prof X’s buddies all jump in and gang up on the other guys gang and say that they are trolling/derailing threads/have no pictures/don’t know what they’re talking about/aren’t sticking to the topic/causing a huge decline in the forums/whatever.

Sprinkle in a few more posts from Prof X that absolve himself from all blame/responsibility in this whole process. A couple more digs at posters without actually saying any names (even though everyone knows who he’s talking about)

Rinse & Repeat a few more times… And there you have it! The way all these threads go.

Just give it a rest. No one here is going to “Win” this. Neither side will see eye to eye. All it is doing is driving these forums down and causing people to not post/not want to post… And it’s BOTH SIDES FAULT.

There is no point to it.

That’s just my take on it… But what do I know?[/quote]
I literally LOL’d

468

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
I don’t think it’s out of the question for natties to use it. A little site enhancement come contest day to make the biceps or triceps pop? I don’t think that’s unreasonable at all. Synthol isn’t only used to stretch the fascia and allow for more muscle to fill the gap.[/quote]

I’ve read stuff about natty’s using SEO’s. From what I could tell in the pics it really didn’t do much for them, at least I couldn’t tell any difference. I think for nattys looking for a boost come constest day an esicclene shot would do a better job getting a muscle to pop. But I imagine that shit would be incredibly painfull, as in incredibly painfull.

469

[quote]DeltaOne wrote:

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
I don’t think it’s out of the question for natties to use it. A little site enhancement come contest day to make the biceps or triceps pop? I don’t think that’s unreasonable at all. Synthol isn’t only used to stretch the fascia and allow for more muscle to fill the gap.[/quote]

I’ve read stuff about natty’s using SEO’s. From what I could tell in the pics it really didn’t do much for them, at least I couldn’t tell any difference. I think for nattys looking for a boost come constest day an esicclene shot would do a better job getting a muscle to pop. But I imagine that shit would be incredibly painfull, as in incredibly painfull.

[/quote]

meh, I’d rather stay naiive on this one. I can’t imagine usage is so common it’s a requirement to compete, even at natty pro level.

470

[quote]jake_j_m wrote:

[quote]DeltaOne wrote:

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
I don’t think it’s out of the question for natties to use it. A little site enhancement come contest day to make the biceps or triceps pop? I don’t think that’s unreasonable at all. Synthol isn’t only used to stretch the fascia and allow for more muscle to fill the gap.[/quote]

I’ve read stuff about natty’s using SEO’s. From what I could tell in the pics it really didn’t do much for them, at least I couldn’t tell any difference. I think for nattys looking for a boost come constest day an esicclene shot would do a better job getting a muscle to pop. But I imagine that shit would be incredibly painfull, as in incredibly painfull.

[/quote]

meh, I’d rather stay naiive on this one. I can’t imagine usage is so common it’s a requirement to compete, even at natty pro level.
[/quote]

Let me ask you this
If being a pro natty bodybuilder was your job, wouldnt you do all you can to have an edge, or at least not be behind what others because they are doing something you arent willing to do?

471

Some people possess integrity, believe it or not, zraw

472

[quote]myself1992 wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:
We’ve seen this a million times already.

Prof X says something that comes across to some as ill-informed/niave/uneducated/whatever.

Someone will be off put by one of Prof X’s comments and they will think "ah ha! This is my chance to prove him wrong/“call him out” about it… And so the saga begins.

Instead of clearing up the situation by saying (using this current “discussion” as an example) “I understand drug use plays a role in professional bodybuilding, what I am wondering though is if he has made an changes to his routine that he has felt really helped his development.” (said in a non condescending, non-profanity laced manner… You know, they way human beings should speak to one another)

Prof X then proceeds to post in a very defensive manner, questions the other posters intelligence/reading comprehension/mental capacity… Therefor dumping 5 gallons of gas on a smoldering campfire. It could have easily been put out before but not now.

Now the accusing posters buddies all jump in and gang up Prof X. They say how he’s just fat/perma-bulker/can’t do lunges/looks like whatever… Usually bringing up things that don’t even have to do with the involved thread.

Now Prof X’s buddies all jump in and gang up on the other guys gang and say that they are trolling/derailing threads/have no pictures/don’t know what they’re talking about/aren’t sticking to the topic/causing a huge decline in the forums/whatever.

Sprinkle in a few more posts from Prof X that absolve himself from all blame/responsibility in this whole process. A couple more digs at posters without actually saying any names (even though everyone knows who he’s talking about)

Rinse & Repeat a few more times… And there you have it! The way all these threads go.

Just give it a rest. No one here is going to “Win” this. Neither side will see eye to eye. All it is doing is driving these forums down and causing people to not post/not want to post… And it’s BOTH SIDES FAULT.

There is no point to it.

That’s just my take on it… But what do I know?[/quote]
I literally LOL’d
[/quote]

Hammer, meet nail, nail, this is hammer.

473

[quote]swhole milk wrote:
Some people possess integrity, believe it or not, zraw[/quote]
+1

[quote]zraw wrote:

[quote]jake_j_m wrote:

[quote]DeltaOne wrote:

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
I don’t think it’s out of the question for natties to use it. A little site enhancement come contest day to make the biceps or triceps pop? I don’t think that’s unreasonable at all. Synthol isn’t only used to stretch the fascia and allow for more muscle to fill the gap.[/quote]

I’ve read stuff about natty’s using SEO’s. From what I could tell in the pics it really didn’t do much for them, at least I couldn’t tell any difference. I think for nattys looking for a boost come constest day an esicclene shot would do a better job getting a muscle to pop. But I imagine that shit would be incredibly painfull, as in incredibly painfull.

[/quote]

meh, I’d rather stay naiive on this one. I can’t imagine usage is so common it’s a requirement to compete, even at natty pro level.
[/quote]

Let me ask you this
If being a pro natty bodybuilder was your job, wouldnt you do all you can to have an edge, or at least not be behind what others because they are doing something you arent willing to do?
[/quote]

Now, more importantly… is there is even ONE pro natural bodybuilder that has it as their full time job? I don’t mean having to train people too.

And no, I would have no interest in that whatsoever. If it’s a respected natty fed it wouldn’t even be an issue anyway.

474

Dont’ the natty’s make only a fraction of what the untested gents do? I think winnings are like 5k or something (maybe that’s just the qualifiers). Its basically impossible to make a living off of that, even if its say 10k, you’d still need to win 4 or 5 shows to make a decent living for normal folks - not including all the meat, vitamins, etc. that are purchased by bodybuilders.

I’d think making a career out of natural bodybuilding would require one to have sponsors and be a representative or spokesperson of some sort.

475

[quote]jake_j_m wrote:

[quote]swhole milk wrote:
Some people possess integrity, believe it or not, zraw[/quote]
+1

[quote]zraw wrote:

[quote]jake_j_m wrote:

[quote]DeltaOne wrote:

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
I don’t think it’s out of the question for natties to use it. A little site enhancement come contest day to make the biceps or triceps pop? I don’t think that’s unreasonable at all. Synthol isn’t only used to stretch the fascia and allow for more muscle to fill the gap.[/quote]

I’ve read stuff about natty’s using SEO’s. From what I could tell in the pics it really didn’t do much for them, at least I couldn’t tell any difference. I think for nattys looking for a boost come constest day an esicclene shot would do a better job getting a muscle to pop. But I imagine that shit would be incredibly painfull, as in incredibly painfull.

[/quote]

meh, I’d rather stay naiive on this one. I can’t imagine usage is so common it’s a requirement to compete, even at natty pro level.
[/quote]

Let me ask you this
If being a pro natty bodybuilder was your job, wouldnt you do all you can to have an edge, or at least not be behind what others because they are doing something you arent willing to do?
[/quote]

Now, more importantly… is there is even ONE pro natural bodybuilder that has it as their full time job? I don’t mean having to train people too.

And no, I would have no interest in that whatsoever. If it’s a respected natty fed it wouldn’t even be an issue anyway.[/quote]

Natty guy doing great at shows = more clients

476

[quote]zraw wrote:

[quote]jake_j_m wrote:

[quote]swhole milk wrote:
Some people possess integrity, believe it or not, zraw[/quote]
+1

[quote]zraw wrote:

[quote]jake_j_m wrote:

[quote]DeltaOne wrote:

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
I don’t think it’s out of the question for natties to use it. A little site enhancement come contest day to make the biceps or triceps pop? I don’t think that’s unreasonable at all. Synthol isn’t only used to stretch the fascia and allow for more muscle to fill the gap.[/quote]

I’ve read stuff about natty’s using SEO’s. From what I could tell in the pics it really didn’t do much for them, at least I couldn’t tell any difference. I think for nattys looking for a boost come constest day an esicclene shot would do a better job getting a muscle to pop. But I imagine that shit would be incredibly painfull, as in incredibly painfull.

[/quote]

meh, I’d rather stay naiive on this one. I can’t imagine usage is so common it’s a requirement to compete, even at natty pro level.
[/quote]

Let me ask you this
If being a pro natty bodybuilder was your job, wouldnt you do all you can to have an edge, or at least not be behind what others because they are doing something you arent willing to do?
[/quote]

Now, more importantly… is there is even ONE pro natural bodybuilder that has it as their full time job? I don’t mean having to train people too.

And no, I would have no interest in that whatsoever. If it’s a respected natty fed it wouldn’t even be an issue anyway.[/quote]

Natty guy doing great at shows = more clients
[/quote]
I get your theory, but I remain unconvinced. Natty guy found to be using anything illegal = 0 clients/respect from then on. It’s a pretty shitty risk/reward ratio imo.

477

[quote]jake_j_m wrote:

[quote]zraw wrote:

[quote]jake_j_m wrote:

[quote]swhole milk wrote:
Some people possess integrity, believe it or not, zraw[/quote]
+1

[quote]zraw wrote:

[quote]jake_j_m wrote:

[quote]DeltaOne wrote:

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
I don’t think it’s out of the question for natties to use it. A little site enhancement come contest day to make the biceps or triceps pop? I don’t think that’s unreasonable at all. Synthol isn’t only used to stretch the fascia and allow for more muscle to fill the gap.[/quote]

I’ve read stuff about natty’s using SEO’s. From what I could tell in the pics it really didn’t do much for them, at least I couldn’t tell any difference. I think for nattys looking for a boost come constest day an esicclene shot would do a better job getting a muscle to pop. But I imagine that shit would be incredibly painfull, as in incredibly painfull.

[/quote]

meh, I’d rather stay naiive on this one. I can’t imagine usage is so common it’s a requirement to compete, even at natty pro level.
[/quote]

Let me ask you this
If being a pro natty bodybuilder was your job, wouldnt you do all you can to have an edge, or at least not be behind what others because they are doing something you arent willing to do?
[/quote]

Now, more importantly… is there is even ONE pro natural bodybuilder that has it as their full time job? I don’t mean having to train people too.

And no, I would have no interest in that whatsoever. If it’s a respected natty fed it wouldn’t even be an issue anyway.[/quote]

Natty guy doing great at shows = more clients
[/quote]
I get your theory, but I remain unconvinced. Natty guy found to be using anything illegal = 0 clients/respect from then on. It’s a pretty shitty risk/reward ratio imo. [/quote]

Skip Lacour isnt doing/didnt do to bad even after being busted for selling steroids lol
(not a proof that he used but come on…)

478

[quote]zraw wrote:

[quote]jake_j_m wrote:

[quote]zraw wrote:

[quote]jake_j_m wrote:

[quote]swhole milk wrote:
Some people possess integrity, believe it or not, zraw[/quote]
+1

[quote]zraw wrote:

[quote]jake_j_m wrote:

[quote]DeltaOne wrote:

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
I don’t think it’s out of the question for natties to use it. A little site enhancement come contest day to make the biceps or triceps pop? I don’t think that’s unreasonable at all. Synthol isn’t only used to stretch the fascia and allow for more muscle to fill the gap.[/quote]

I’ve read stuff about natty’s using SEO’s. From what I could tell in the pics it really didn’t do much for them, at least I couldn’t tell any difference. I think for nattys looking for a boost come constest day an esicclene shot would do a better job getting a muscle to pop. But I imagine that shit would be incredibly painfull, as in incredibly painfull.

[/quote]

meh, I’d rather stay naiive on this one. I can’t imagine usage is so common it’s a requirement to compete, even at natty pro level.
[/quote]

Let me ask you this
If being a pro natty bodybuilder was your job, wouldnt you do all you can to have an edge, or at least not be behind what others because they are doing something you arent willing to do?
[/quote]

Now, more importantly… is there is even ONE pro natural bodybuilder that has it as their full time job? I don’t mean having to train people too.

And no, I would have no interest in that whatsoever. If it’s a respected natty fed it wouldn’t even be an issue anyway.[/quote]

Natty guy doing great at shows = more clients
[/quote]
I get your theory, but I remain unconvinced. Natty guy found to be using anything illegal = 0 clients/respect from then on. It’s a pretty shitty risk/reward ratio imo. [/quote]

Skip Lacour isnt doing/didnt do to bad even after being busted for selling steroids lol
(not a proof that he used but come on…)[/quote]

Extreme example doesn’t prove the rule though. I never said it doesn’t happen, because I’m sure it does, but this is certainly not a case of “every natty pro is on something”… you’d have to be extremely insecure to believe that (not that I’m saying you do) when you consider some of the physiques/strength levels around pre-1930s.

479

[quote]jake_j_m wrote:

[quote]zraw wrote:

[quote]jake_j_m wrote:

[quote]zraw wrote:

[quote]jake_j_m wrote:

[quote]swhole milk wrote:
Some people possess integrity, believe it or not, zraw[/quote]
+1

[quote]zraw wrote:

[quote]jake_j_m wrote:

[quote]DeltaOne wrote:

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
I don’t think it’s out of the question for natties to use it. A little site enhancement come contest day to make the biceps or triceps pop? I don’t think that’s unreasonable at all. Synthol isn’t only used to stretch the fascia and allow for more muscle to fill the gap.[/quote]

I’ve read stuff about natty’s using SEO’s. From what I could tell in the pics it really didn’t do much for them, at least I couldn’t tell any difference. I think for nattys looking for a boost come constest day an esicclene shot would do a better job getting a muscle to pop. But I imagine that shit would be incredibly painfull, as in incredibly painfull.

[/quote]

meh, I’d rather stay naiive on this one. I can’t imagine usage is so common it’s a requirement to compete, even at natty pro level.
[/quote]

Let me ask you this
If being a pro natty bodybuilder was your job, wouldnt you do all you can to have an edge, or at least not be behind what others because they are doing something you arent willing to do?
[/quote]

Now, more importantly… is there is even ONE pro natural bodybuilder that has it as their full time job? I don’t mean having to train people too.

And no, I would have no interest in that whatsoever. If it’s a respected natty fed it wouldn’t even be an issue anyway.[/quote]

Natty guy doing great at shows = more clients
[/quote]
I get your theory, but I remain unconvinced. Natty guy found to be using anything illegal = 0 clients/respect from then on. It’s a pretty shitty risk/reward ratio imo. [/quote]

Skip Lacour isnt doing/didnt do to bad even after being busted for selling steroids lol
(not a proof that he used but come on…)[/quote]

Extreme example doesn’t prove the rule though. I never said it doesn’t happen, because I’m sure it does, but this is certainly not a case of “every natty pro is on something”… you’d have to be extremely insecure to believe that (not that I’m saying you do) when you consider some of the physiques/strength levels around pre-1930s. [/quote]

Oh I dont think every natty pro is “not natty” sry if it sounded that way
More so that its likely that some do decide to do something to give them an edge

480

[quote]zraw wrote:

[quote]jake_j_m wrote:

[quote]zraw wrote:

[quote]jake_j_m wrote:

[quote]zraw wrote:

[quote]jake_j_m wrote:

[quote]swhole milk wrote:
Some people possess integrity, believe it or not, zraw[/quote]
+1

[quote]zraw wrote:

[quote]jake_j_m wrote:

[quote]DeltaOne wrote:

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
I don’t think it’s out of the question for natties to use it. A little site enhancement come contest day to make the biceps or triceps pop? I don’t think that’s unreasonable at all. Synthol isn’t only used to stretch the fascia and allow for more muscle to fill the gap.[/quote]

I’ve read stuff about natty’s using SEO’s. From what I could tell in the pics it really didn’t do much for them, at least I couldn’t tell any difference. I think for nattys looking for a boost come constest day an esicclene shot would do a better job getting a muscle to pop. But I imagine that shit would be incredibly painfull, as in incredibly painfull.

[/quote]

meh, I’d rather stay naiive on this one. I can’t imagine usage is so common it’s a requirement to compete, even at natty pro level.
[/quote]

Let me ask you this
If being a pro natty bodybuilder was your job, wouldnt you do all you can to have an edge, or at least not be behind what others because they are doing something you arent willing to do?
[/quote]

Now, more importantly… is there is even ONE pro natural bodybuilder that has it as their full time job? I don’t mean having to train people too.

And no, I would have no interest in that whatsoever. If it’s a respected natty fed it wouldn’t even be an issue anyway.[/quote]

Natty guy doing great at shows = more clients
[/quote]
I get your theory, but I remain unconvinced. Natty guy found to be using anything illegal = 0 clients/respect from then on. It’s a pretty shitty risk/reward ratio imo. [/quote]

Skip Lacour isnt doing/didnt do to bad even after being busted for selling steroids lol
(not a proof that he used but come on…)[/quote]

Extreme example doesn’t prove the rule though. I never said it doesn’t happen, because I’m sure it does, but this is certainly not a case of “every natty pro is on something”… you’d have to be extremely insecure to believe that (not that I’m saying you do) when you consider some of the physiques/strength levels around pre-1930s. [/quote]

Oh I dont think every natty pro is “not natty” sry if it sounded that way
More so that its likely that some do decide to do something to give them an edge
[/quote]

Awesome, we basically agree then. I’m not denying that Skip may have had more then a few scoops of Jack3d, haha. If only all debates could be ended so nicely.

481

[quote]jake_j_m wrote:

[quote]zraw wrote:

[quote]jake_j_m wrote:

[quote]zraw wrote:

[quote]jake_j_m wrote:

[quote]zraw wrote:

[quote]jake_j_m wrote:

[quote]swhole milk wrote:
Some people possess integrity, believe it or not, zraw[/quote]
+1

[quote]zraw wrote:

[quote]jake_j_m wrote:

[quote]DeltaOne wrote:

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
I don’t think it’s out of the question for natties to use it. A little site enhancement come contest day to make the biceps or triceps pop? I don’t think that’s unreasonable at all. Synthol isn’t only used to stretch the fascia and allow for more muscle to fill the gap.[/quote]

I’ve read stuff about natty’s using SEO’s. From what I could tell in the pics it really didn’t do much for them, at least I couldn’t tell any difference. I think for nattys looking for a boost come constest day an esicclene shot would do a better job getting a muscle to pop. But I imagine that shit would be incredibly painfull, as in incredibly painfull.

[/quote]

meh, I’d rather stay naiive on this one. I can’t imagine usage is so common it’s a requirement to compete, even at natty pro level.
[/quote]

Let me ask you this
If being a pro natty bodybuilder was your job, wouldnt you do all you can to have an edge, or at least not be behind what others because they are doing something you arent willing to do?
[/quote]

Now, more importantly… is there is even ONE pro natural bodybuilder that has it as their full time job? I don’t mean having to train people too.

And no, I would have no interest in that whatsoever. If it’s a respected natty fed it wouldn’t even be an issue anyway.[/quote]

Natty guy doing great at shows = more clients
[/quote]
I get your theory, but I remain unconvinced. Natty guy found to be using anything illegal = 0 clients/respect from then on. It’s a pretty shitty risk/reward ratio imo. [/quote]

Skip Lacour isnt doing/didnt do to bad even after being busted for selling steroids lol
(not a proof that he used but come on…)[/quote]

Extreme example doesn’t prove the rule though. I never said it doesn’t happen, because I’m sure it does, but this is certainly not a case of “every natty pro is on something”… you’d have to be extremely insecure to believe that (not that I’m saying you do) when you consider some of the physiques/strength levels around pre-1930s. [/quote]

Oh I dont think every natty pro is “not natty” sry if it sounded that way
More so that its likely that some do decide to do something to give them an edge
[/quote]

Awesome, we basically agree then. I’m not denying that Skip may have had more then a few scoops of Jack3d, haha. If only all debates could be ended so nicely. [/quote]

You guys really failed to deliver on this one.