Phera Plex

Pharma
81

[quote]Prisoner#22 wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
Prisoner#22 wrote:
This entire thread is a joke. A so-called ‘training guru’ who can barely do box squats with 225lbs? and thats after using that shit for 8 weeks! what a joke!

If anything it just tells people to say away from this junk that website is putting out. I get a lot of people pming who are have major difficulties with recovery from these ‘cycles’ My advice is stick to the known compounds - they may be only attainable by black market means, but at least there is peer-reviewed research out there on these products,and they arn’t just some junk cooked up in a bathtub, with the express interest in getting around legal loopholes to make money off mainly highschoolers and teenagers - who seem to be their easiest prey.

Not everyone has your strength. The people getting fucked up are mostly kids who don’t listen and I get the same PM’s.

This thread is a valliant attempt at education, which you seem to have a problem with.

The fact that you think this thread is a joke, makes your post a joke to me.

The concern I have is that there are people actually using this junk to begin with. There is absolutely no credible research behind these compounds, except for that pushed out by the producers. Another concern is the generally held contention on these boards that there are actually ‘herbal’ supplements that will ‘protect’ your liver. Complete horse sh!t, along the same lines of echinachea being good for your immune system.

[/quote]

You bring out a good point. There are lots of things marketed as liver protectants, but all the research I have come across says it “may” help liver function. Nothing concrete. That a big reason I asked how the blood work looked post cycle.

If you’ve got some insight into the matter, put it on the table. I’d love to hear it.

82

[quote]Prisoner#22 wrote:
This entire thread is a joke. A so-called ‘training guru’ who can barely do box squats with 225lbs? and thats after using that shit for 8 weeks! what a joke!

If anything it just tells people to say away from this junk that website is putting out. I get a lot of people pming who are have major difficulties with recovery from these ‘cycles’ My advice is stick to the known compounds - they may be only attainable by black market means, but at least there is peer-reviewed research out there on these products,and they arn’t just some junk cooked up in a bathtub, with the express interest in getting around legal loopholes to make money off mainly highschoolers and teenagers - who seem to be their easiest prey.

[/quote]

Where does it say that I used Phera Plex for 8 weeks. I used it for 4 weeks, 20mg ED. You would know that if read it before voicing your inaccurate information. Typical internet tough guy.

83

[quote]assbuster wrote:
papi93 wrote:
3/28/06

I “officially” plateaued out on box squats. I had the mind set of changing them before this workout but decided to stick with them and work on my technique more. I was thinking of going to regular squats but they are a bitch to keep the ROM full. Once the weight gets heavier, it is very difficult to tell if you are going at least parallel on all of your reps. The box guarantees this. When you use predominantly free weights, you don’t have a lot of substitutes for the squat. I practiced some good mornings, at the end of the workout, with an empty bar. Maybe good mornings and low box squats would be a good combo.

papi,

I think the reason you “officially plateaued” is because you’re doing Box Squats in the first place. They’re great for beginners using low weight and learning the movement, but I wouldn’t recommend them for long term. There are lots of alternatives to Box Squats if you’re opposed to Back Squats. Personally I hate Box Squats. I squat very heavy and am afraid of herniating a disk in my lower back coming down too hard on the box.

Don’t you have a mirror by the squat/power rack? Get someone to spot you and then do Back Squats. Try Barbell Hack Squats, Front Squats and Overhead Squats just to change things up.

My $0.02.

A.B.
[/quote]

You need to read some articles by Dave Tate and then you will know why the box squat is a valuable training aid.

You need to check your technique on your box squats. You need to lighten the weight if you can’t control the negative.

84

[quote]Basso wrote:
assbuster wrote:
papi,

I think the reason you “officially plateaued” is because you’re doing Box Squats in the first place. They’re great for beginners using low weight and learning the movement, but I wouldn’t recommend them for long term. There are lots of alternatives to Box Squats if you’re opposed to Back Squats. Personally I hate Box Squats. I squat very heavy and am afraid of herniating a disk in my lower back coming down too hard on the box.

Don’t you have a mirror by the squat/power rack? Get someone to spot you and then do Back Squats. Try Barbell Hack Squats, Front Squats and Overhead Squats just to change things up.

My $0.02.

A.B.

WHAT!?! Maybe you need to inform the Westside bunch about this, wouldn’t want to see Dave Tate and crew have back problems! (bunch of beginners)[/quote]

I couldn’t have said it better. For those quick to criticize, do your research first.

85

[quote]assbuster wrote:
Basso wrote:

WHAT!?! Maybe you need to inform the Westside bunch about this, wouldn’t want to see Dave Tate and crew have back problems! (bunch of beginners)

No disrespect meant towards Tate or the Westside guys. Just my opinion is all and I respectfully disagree with doing heavy box squats because I believe they are dangerous when done with heavy weight. I’ve seen the injuries firsthand.

Let me ask you a question… If Tate told you slamming your dick in the door 10 times for 3 sets 3 times a week would make it bigger then you’d probably do it because Dave Tate and the Westside guys said it was a very effect means of dick hypertrophy.

Try doing a box squat with 475 plus and come down a little too fast on the box is all I’m saying. I’ll be glad to send you; Tate or any of the Westside guys a card while recovering from the back surgery.

The military is looking for guys just like you who will blindly follow their leaders unquestionably. The Marines are looking for guys like you right now. Why don’t you go sign up?

EDIT to post: I checked your profile after this post and you ARE millitary which explains your post. Am I good or what? LOL

Enough hijacking… Let’s now return to the actual thread regarding Phera Plex. If you wish to continue this debate let’s either take it PM or start a new thread debating Box Squats.

A.B.
[/quote]

Let’s start a box squats thread. I like debating.

86

[quote]papi93 wrote:
Where does it say that I used Phera Plex for 8 weeks. I used it for 4 weeks, 20mg ED. You would know that if read it before voicing your inaccurate information. Typical internet tough guy. [/quote]

Sorry, I guess I got board after skimming through all your mediocre lifts. Seriously, if I was that weak, I would focus more on 'naturally trying to bring up my lifts, and build a good base of joint and tendon strength rather than resorting to steroids.
However 4 or 8 weeks aside, the truth of the matter is, on any short halflife steroid, a good 80% of your gains are going to happen within the 4-6 week range, then gains rapidly fall off as the body adapts to the AAS in the system.

As for Milk thistle, most studies have been inconclusive in comparison with placebo, many studies have shown however no improvements whatsoever.

I’ll continue this on another thread however, as I see one has been started…

87

[quote]Prisoner#22 wrote:
papi93 wrote:
Where does it say that I used Phera Plex for 8 weeks. I used it for 4 weeks, 20mg ED. You would know that if read it before voicing your inaccurate information. Typical internet tough guy.

Sorry, I guess I got board after skimming through all your mediocre lifts. Seriously, if I was that weak, I would focus more on 'naturally trying to bring up my lifts, and build a good base of joint and tendon strength rather than resorting to steroids.
However 4 or 8 weeks aside, the truth of the matter is, on any short halflife steroid, a good 80% of your gains are going to happen within the 4-6 week range, then gains rapidly fall off as the body adapts to the AAS in the system.

As for Milk thistle, most studies have been inconclusive in comparison with placebo, many studies have shown however no improvements whatsoever.

I’ll continue this on another thread however, as I see one has been started…

[/quote]

Why do you feel the need to insult people? Does it make you feel good about yourself? Your ignorance is pathetic. I’m sure the weights you use in the squat make you look like a pussy compared to Dave Tate and other Westside lifters. Where are your articles if you are such a stud?
If this thread is such a joke, why has it gotten so much attention?

88

Prisoner to his own ignorance, this one is for you:

3/30/06

Dumbbell Bench Press 90(8)/90(8)/90(8)
Incline Skullcrushers EZ+75(5)/EZ+75(5)/EZ+75(5)
Chin-Ups 6/6/6
Seated Barbell Shoulder Presses - Bottom Half of ROM 105(8)/105(8)/105(8)
Machine Preacher Curls 90(8)/90(7)/90(4+3 after a short rest)
Dumbbell Side Bends 65(8)/65(8)/65(8)

My dumbbell bench presses went up from 85’s to 90’s. Everything felt strong except Machine Preacher Curls. My third set was a disaster. Looks like it is time to get a new biceps exercise.

This week’s workouts have been a little difficult. My girlfriend is moving back to Mexico and we have been arguing quite a bit. So it has been a stressful week, to say the least. My sleep has been terrible and this is probably affecting my performance.

89

3/31/06

Deadlifts 195(7)/195(7)/195(7)
Reverse Dumbbell Lunges 60(7)/60(7)/60(7)
Lying Leg Curls 170(8)/170(8)/170(8)
Toe Press Machine 310(7)/310(7)/310(7)
Seated Calf Raises 120(6)/120(5)/120(5)
Dumbbell Shrugs 70(7)/70(7)/70(7)

My deadlifts went up by one rep but the exercise was very challenging. It could be just because I had a tough week with my girlfriend leaving and all. Stress can really effect your training and sleep. The Reverse DB Lunges will be substituted for next week. They felt very heavy.

90

[quote]papi93 wrote:
Prisoner#22 wrote:
papi93 wrote:
Where does it say that I used Phera Plex for 8 weeks. I used it for 4 weeks, 20mg ED. You would know that if read it before voicing your inaccurate information. Typical internet tough guy.

Sorry, I guess I got board after skimming through all your mediocre lifts. Seriously, if I was that weak, I would focus more on 'naturally trying to bring up my lifts, and build a good base of joint and tendon strength rather than resorting to steroids.
However 4 or 8 weeks aside, the truth of the matter is, on any short halflife steroid, a good 80% of your gains are going to happen within the 4-6 week range, then gains rapidly fall off as the body adapts to the AAS in the system.

As for Milk thistle, most studies have been inconclusive in comparison with placebo, many studies have shown however no improvements whatsoever.

I’ll continue this on another thread however, as I see one has been started…

Why do you feel the need to insult people? Does it make you feel good about yourself? Your ignorance is pathetic. I’m sure the weights you use in the squat make you look like a pussy compared to Dave Tate and other Westside lifters. Where are your articles if you are such a stud?
If this thread is such a joke, why has it gotten so much attention?
[/quote]

Sorry buddy no insult was intended, Just was trying to say you should have waited untill you had maxed out your genetic potential before resorting to chemical helpers. Guess I should practice saying things a little nicer.

As for the pussy comment - the only way that pertains is that I get way more pussy.

91

There’s really no reason for the bickering to continue. Everybody has different attributes, and the numbers are only one part of the whole of the person. I see value in pushing your genetic limits before using phera-plex for assistance, but, then again, I’m not surprised that someone would want to get the jump start.

Can’t we all just get along?

92

I’ve used and been very impressed with Superdrol and Pheraplex. These things actually delivered.

They do shut you down and their not for the younger crowd (as if they need these:). But I think these are (were) effective, legal substances.

(I don’t mean to pimp those things; just stating facts).

93

[quote]assbuster wrote:
Basso wrote:

WHAT!?! Maybe you need to inform the Westside bunch about this, wouldn’t want to see Dave Tate and crew have back problems! (bunch of beginners)

No disrespect meant towards Tate or the Westside guys. Just my opinion is all and I respectfully disagree with doing heavy box squats because I believe they are dangerous when done with heavy weight. I’ve seen the injuries firsthand.

Let me ask you a question… If Tate told you slamming your dick in the door 10 times for 3 sets 3 times a week would make it bigger then you’d probably do it because Dave Tate and the Westside guys said it was a very effect means of dick hypertrophy.

Try doing a box squat with 475 plus and come down a little too fast on the box is all I’m saying. I’ll be glad to send you; Tate or any of the Westside guys a card while recovering from the back surgery.

The military is looking for guys just like you who will blindly follow their leaders unquestionably. The Marines are looking for guys like you right now. Why don’t you go sign up?

EDIT to post: I checked your profile after this post and you ARE millitary which explains your post. Am I good or what? LOL

Enough hijacking… Let’s now return to the actual thread regarding Phera Plex. If you wish to continue this debate let’s either take it PM or start a new thread debating Box Squats.

A.B.

[/quote]

Injuries can come with any lift, box squats done properly are an incredible asset, if they scare you, that’s your business, I have no problem with that but saying they are only for beginners becuase some idiot you know did them wrong and got hurt is a bit ignorant. I don’t do a westside workout but I take what works for me from everything I learn, Westside provides a lot of good info that can be used.
BTW you can keep your personnal hangups about the military to yourself, I choose my profession and regardless of your opinions will continue to protect your freedoms.

94

[quote]Basso wrote:
assbuster wrote:
Injuries can come with any lift, box squats done properly are an incredible asset, if they scare you, that’s your business, I have no problem with that but saying they are only for beginners becuase some idiot you know did them wrong and got hurt is a bit ignorant. I don’t do a westside workout but I take what works for me from everything I learn, Westside provides a lot of good info that can be used.
BTW you can keep your personnal hangups about the military to yourself, I choose my profession and regardless of your opinions will continue to protect your freedoms.[/quote]

First off Box Squats are great for people needing to hone their squatting technique or that are just learning to squat, but box squats are not optimal for quad development such as full range back, front or overhead squats. Why do you really need to bounce your ass off a box for if you know how to squat?

The problems I have with box squats are they are too restrictive in ROM and as I said before if for some reason you lose your balance on the way down be ready for a serious injury. Lose it on any of the above mentioned squats and you can shed the bar very easily without injury. It’s the stupid box I have a problem with from a safety standpoint. That’s why you shouldn’t go very heavy with them, that’s not their purpose.

Now regarding the military comment… I feel I’m entitled since I am ex-military and I was out there protecting your freedoms and right to be the smart ass you are when you were probably still eating baby food and crapping your diapers. So don’t preach that God and country bullshit to me I know it only too well. The difference is when I was in we were called “war mongers” and “baby killers”. Now you’re all “heroes”. My point is having a mind of your own. Don’t be such a blockheaded soldier on everything in life. Think for yourself. Don’t let Dave Tate, the Westside Guys, the president, your C.O. or anyone else tell you how to think. That’s what I hated about the military; no place for free thinkers.

A.B.

95

[quote]assbuster wrote:
Basso wrote:
assbuster wrote:
Injuries can come with any lift, box squats done properly are an incredible asset, if they scare you, that’s your business, I have no problem with that but saying they are only for beginners becuase some idiot you know did them wrong and got hurt is a bit ignorant. I don’t do a westside workout but I take what works for me from everything I learn, Westside provides a lot of good info that can be used.
BTW you can keep your personnal hangups about the military to yourself, I choose my profession and regardless of your opinions will continue to protect your freedoms.

First off Box Squats are great for people needing to hone their squatting technique or that are just learning to squat, but box squats are not optimal for quad development such as full range back, front or overhead squats. Why do you really need to bounce your ass off a box for if you know how to squat?

The problems I have with box squats are they are too restrictive in ROM and as I said before if for some reason you lose your balance on the way down be ready for a serious injury. Lose it on any of the above mentioned squats and you can shed the bar very easily without injury. It’s the stupid box I have a problem with from a safety standpoint. That’s why you shouldn’t go very heavy with them, that’s not their purpose.

Now regarding the military comment… I feel I’m entitled since I am ex-military and I was out there protecting your freedoms and right to be the smart ass you are when you were probably still eating baby food and crapping your diapers. So don’t preach that God and country bullshit to me I know it only too well. The difference is when I was in we were called “war mongers” and “baby killers”. Now you’re all “heroes”. My point is having a mind of your own. Don’t be such a blockheaded soldier on everything in life. Think for yourself. Don’t let Dave Tate, the Westside Guys, the president, your C.O. or anyone else tell you how to think. That’s what I hated about the military; no place for free thinkers.

A.B.[/quote]

You were in the military awhile ago I can tell, anyway I’ve been in over 20yrs and I still have my free will. Yes I have to obey orders, but I’ve earned the right to ask why now. Anyway like I said before I’m not a Westside worshipper, in fact I disagree with a lot of their teaching, I used them as an example for box squats because they are well known for their box squatting! I box squat because they work!

Bouncing is not allowed, the box should be low enough to not restrict ROM, in fact I use it alot to get trainees to go low enough! Done properly you sit back onto the box, come to a complete stop. Box squats are not the ol’ stick a bench and bounce off the bottom. When I first learned to box squat properly I could barely get 400 off the box, and I can squat over 600 to the floor. I will agree to disagree on this but from your comments I really believe you do not know how to box squat properly or you would change your mind.

Anyway I’m not trying to get into some arguement here, this is my last post on this thread.

96

[quote]Basso wrote:
assbuster wrote:
Basso wrote:
assbuster wrote:
Injuries can come with any lift, box squats done properly are an incredible asset, if they scare you, that’s your business, I have no problem with that but saying they are only for beginners becuase some idiot you know did them wrong and got hurt is a bit ignorant. I don’t do a westside workout but I take what works for me from everything I learn, Westside provides a lot of good info that can be used.
BTW you can keep your personnal hangups about the military to yourself, I choose my profession and regardless of your opinions will continue to protect your freedoms.

First off Box Squats are great for people needing to hone their squatting technique or that are just learning to squat, but box squats are not optimal for quad development such as full range back, front or overhead squats. Why do you really need to bounce your ass off a box for if you know how to squat?

The problems I have with box squats are they are too restrictive in ROM and as I said before if for some reason you lose your balance on the way down be ready for a serious injury. Lose it on any of the above mentioned squats and you can shed the bar very easily without injury. It’s the stupid box I have a problem with from a safety standpoint. That’s why you shouldn’t go very heavy with them, that’s not their purpose.

Now regarding the military comment… I feel I’m entitled since I am ex-military and I was out there protecting your freedoms and right to be the smart ass you are when you were probably still eating baby food and crapping your diapers. So don’t preach that God and country bullshit to me I know it only too well. The difference is when I was in we were called “war mongers” and “baby killers”. Now you’re all “heroes”. My point is having a mind of your own. Don’t be such a blockheaded soldier on everything in life. Think for yourself. Don’t let Dave Tate, the Westside Guys, the president, your C.O. or anyone else tell you how to think. That’s what I hated about the military; no place for free thinkers.

A.B.

You were in the military awhile ago I can tell, anyway I’ve been in over 20yrs and I still have my free will. Yes I have to obey orders, but I’ve earned the right to ask why now. Anyway like I said before I’m not a Westside worshipper, in fact I disagree with a lot of their teaching, I used them as an example for box squats because they are well known for their box squatting! I box squat because they work!

Bouncing is not allowed, the box should be low enough to not restrict ROM, in fact I use it alot to get trainees to go low enough! Done properly you sit back onto the box, come to a complete stop. Box squats are not the ol’ stick a bench and bounce off the bottom. When I first learned to box squat properly I could barely get 400 off the box, and I can squat over 600 to the floor. I will agree to disagree on this but from your comments I really believe you do not know how to box squat properly or you would change your mind.

Anyway I’m not trying to get into some arguement here, this is my last post on this thread.
[/quote]

I agree with the bouncing statement. You come to a complete stop with box squats. You don’t use it to rebound off of. That’s high school stuff. For those with very long femurs, this exercise is a great tool for insuring adequate ROM (if that is desired by the lifter). Box squats are actually harder to perform because you can’t take advantage of the stretch reflex like you can with a traditional squat. How many people do you see pause at the bottom of a traditional squat? Not many. Box squats develop starting strength, as well.

97

I have recently purchased PP and then found this web site. I am now questionable on my choice of product purchasing but have bought it so I will be taking it. What do you suppose is the most proper and safest way to go about it? i.e. what should I stack together?

98

[quote]TtoTheEss wrote:
I have recently purchased PP and then found this web site. I am now questionable on my choice of product purchasing but have bought it so I will be taking it. What do you suppose is the most proper and safest way to go about it? i.e. what should I stack together?[/quote]

Dude…Got search?

99

Yes, and I have. But most of the information out there is from the manufacturers and I am fairly skeptical about that. I observed T-Nation to be an extremely knowledgable forum site and was just looking for some feedback.

100

[quote]TtoTheEss wrote:
Yes, and I have. But most of the information out there is from the manufacturers and I am fairly skeptical about that. I observed T-Nation to be an extremely knowledgable forum site and was just looking for some feedback.[/quote]

no, search THIS site.