Ahhh thankyou…I’m new what can I say?
[quote]papi93 wrote:
Basso wrote:
assbuster wrote:
Basso wrote:
assbuster wrote:
Injuries can come with any lift, box squats done properly are an incredible asset, if they scare you, that’s your business, I have no problem with that but saying they are only for beginners becuase some idiot you know did them wrong and got hurt is a bit ignorant. I don’t do a westside workout but I take what works for me from everything I learn, Westside provides a lot of good info that can be used.
BTW you can keep your personnal hangups about the military to yourself, I choose my profession and regardless of your opinions will continue to protect your freedoms.
First off Box Squats are great for people needing to hone their squatting technique or that are just learning to squat, but box squats are not optimal for quad development such as full range back, front or overhead squats. Why do you really need to bounce your ass off a box for if you know how to squat?
The problems I have with box squats are they are too restrictive in ROM and as I said before if for some reason you lose your balance on the way down be ready for a serious injury. Lose it on any of the above mentioned squats and you can shed the bar very easily without injury. It’s the stupid box I have a problem with from a safety standpoint. That’s why you shouldn’t go very heavy with them, that’s not their purpose.
Now regarding the military comment… I feel I’m entitled since I am ex-military and I was out there protecting your freedoms and right to be the smart ass you are when you were probably still eating baby food and crapping your diapers. So don’t preach that God and country bullshit to me I know it only too well. The difference is when I was in we were called “war mongers” and “baby killers”. Now you’re all “heroes”. My point is having a mind of your own. Don’t be such a blockheaded soldier on everything in life. Think for yourself. Don’t let Dave Tate, the Westside Guys, the president, your C.O. or anyone else tell you how to think. That’s what I hated about the military; no place for free thinkers.
A.B.
You were in the military awhile ago I can tell, anyway I’ve been in over 20yrs and I still have my free will. Yes I have to obey orders, but I’ve earned the right to ask why now. Anyway like I said before I’m not a Westside worshipper, in fact I disagree with a lot of their teaching, I used them as an example for box squats because they are well known for their box squatting! I box squat because they work!
Bouncing is not allowed, the box should be low enough to not restrict ROM, in fact I use it alot to get trainees to go low enough! Done properly you sit back onto the box, come to a complete stop. Box squats are not the ol’ stick a bench and bounce off the bottom. When I first learned to box squat properly I could barely get 400 off the box, and I can squat over 600 to the floor. I will agree to disagree on this but from your comments I really believe you do not know how to box squat properly or you would change your mind.
Anyway I’m not trying to get into some arguement here, this is my last post on this thread.
I agree with the bouncing statement. You come to a complete stop with box squats. You don’t use it to rebound off of. That’s high school stuff. For those with very long femurs, this exercise is a great tool for insuring adequate ROM (if that is desired by the lifter). Box squats are actually harder to perform because you can’t take advantage of the stretch reflex like you can with a traditional squat. How many people do you see pause at the bottom of a traditional squat? Not many. Box squats develop starting strength, as well. [/quote]
I have to say box squats are good. I tore a hip flexor when I played football years ago, and I always would get pain in the hipflexor - diabilitating pain from going too low (ass to grass) by using the box/ bench which was just below my knee joints, it allows me to go down past parallel for each rep, but not to the point where I injure my hip flexor. As for the difference in the amount of weight I lift, I have found no difference, as my form has not changed at all, the only change is I am forgoing the last few inches of the movement - no change in quad developement either.
Box squating does however force you to bring the weight down much more controlled, as you don’t want to slam into the seat with 400 lbs on your back - that wouldn’t feel too good 
And controlling the weight provides much more brute strength, and a much better pump for BB.
[quote]TtoTheEss wrote:
Ahhh thankyou…I’m new what can I say?[/quote]
I ran 20mg ED for 4 weeks. I took the Perfect Cycle for liver support and niacin & fish oils for cholesterol support. You might want to run hawthorne berry extract for blood pressure support. I didn’t do this but should have. These oral only cycles are not cheap.
PCT was 4 weeks long. I ran all of my support supps there as well. I ran liquid nolva at 40mg ED for two weeks and 20mg ED for two weeks. Next time, I will run nolva at 40mg ED for the entire 4 weeks. I might purchase some tongkat ali for libido support during PCT.
so what were your final stats, after pct?
[quote]Big Willie Style wrote:
so what were your final stats, after pct? [/quote]
I gained 14lbs from my Phera Plex cycle and I maintained the 14lbs through PCT. As far as strength goes, skim through my log. My strength was still increasing during PCT. I have hit a brick wall in my natural month though. Still have the 14lbs though.
4/3/06
Incline Barbell Presses 195(5)/195(5)/195(5)/195(5)
Incline Dumbbell Presses 90(4)/90(4)/90(4)
Neutral-Grip Rows 110(5)/110(5)/110(5)/110(5)
Supinated-Grip Bent-Over Rows 145(6)/145(6)/145(6)
*Pulldown Abs 50(8)/50(8)/50(8)
When Incline BB Presses went up by one rep on all four sets. It was not easy though. The last rep, on the last two sets, were hard to lockout. *The decline sit-up bench was being used so I did pulldown abs for my abdominal exercise.
On Sunday, I was carrying a dresser down a flight of stairs and it was difficult to see in front of me. I missed a step and felt my left ankle turn. The pain was pretty intense and I have been walking with a slight limp since then. Tommorow is my leg workout so, to say the least, I am a little nervous.
4/4/06
Deadlifts 205(4)/205(4)/205(4)/205(4)
Dumbbell Step-Ups 25(7)/25(7)/25(7)
Good Mornings 65(6)/65(6)/65(6)
Behind-the-Back Barbell Shrugs 135(5)/140(5)/140(5)/140(5)
Since I sprained my left ankle, I took out Box Squats and replaced them with Deadlifts. The wide stance, taken with Box Squats, would have caused too much pain on my ankle. I did not want to overcompensate on one leg. I, also performed two new exercises, at the end of my workout. The Back Extensions had strengthened my glutes, hamstrings, and lower back very well. I was ready for the Good Morning.
I have been wanting to incorporate this exercise in for some time. The switch to Behind-the-Back Shrugs was more out of curiosity. I have never done them on a consistent basis because the glutes make the exercise difficult to perform. Mastering this exercise will be a challenge.
The clomid has been helping return my natural test levels and probably helping my blood lipid profiles. I am past the half way point of my natural month and I still feel my libido needs some work. After I finish the Clomid, I will evaluate my situation. If my libido returns, I will do another Phera Plex cycle but if it doesn’t, tongkat ali will be on the schedule.
4/6/06
Dumbbell Bench Presses 95(6)/95(6)/95(6)
Incline Skullcrushers EZ+80(5)/EZ+80(5)/EZ+80(5)
Chin-Ups 8/8/7
Seated Shoulder Presses - Bottom Half of ROM 105(9)/105(9)/105(9)
Machine Preacher Curls 90(8)/90(7)/90(5)+3 after rest+1 after rest
DB Side Bends 70(6)/70(6)/70(6)
Increased the weight on db bench presses from 90 to 95. Chin-Ups were very easy. I’m thinking of dropping the rep range down to 8 on the seated shoulder presses. I would like a little more mass on my delts. Machine Preacher Curls are very heavy. I need to find a substitute very soon.
I’m really surprised I have been able to gut these workouts, even though my ankle is still bothering me. This day was pretty easy, due to the fact that I only had one standing exercise.
My natural month will only has 5 workouts left. It has went by very fast. The jury is still out on the libido. My girlfriend is in Mexico so I haven’t really got the chance to test it out. I might do another month of CEE and tongkat ali if I don’t feel like it is fully recovered. I don’t want to mess with this because my woman loves doing the deed.
[quote]papi93 wrote:
4/4/06
Deadlifts 205(4)/205(4)/205(4)/205(4)
Dumbbell Step-Ups 25(7)/25(7)/25(7)
Good Mornings 65(6)/65(6)/65(6)
Behind-the-Back Barbell Shrugs 135(5)/140(5)/140(5)/140(5)
Since I sprained my left ankle, I took out Box Squats and replaced them with Deadlifts. The wide stance, taken with Box Squats, would have caused too much pain on my ankle. I did not want to overcompensate on one leg. I, also performed two new exercises, at the end of my workout. The Back Extensions had strengthened my glutes, hamstrings, and lower back very well. I was ready for the Good Morning.
I have been wanting to incorporate this exercise in for some time. The switch to Behind-the-Back Shrugs was more out of curiosity. I have never done them on a consistent basis because the glutes make the exercise difficult to perform. Mastering this exercise will be a challenge.
The clomid has been helping return my natural test levels and probably helping my blood lipid profiles. I am past the half way point of my natural month and I still feel my libido needs some work. After I finish the Clomid, I will evaluate my situation. If my libido returns, I will do another Phera Plex cycle but if it doesn’t, tongkat ali will be on the schedule.
[/quote]
I recomend straight leg deadlifts as apposed to goodmornings, as you can go alot heavier, with less stress to the lower back.
with good mornings it is quite possible for the hamstrings to pull out the lower back - tearing muscle at the insertion sites - and you don’t need a lot or weight to accomplish this either.
wereas this is not as much a concern in the deadlift position, not to mention all the benifits of holding the weight in your hands.
[quote]Prisoner#22 wrote:
papi93 wrote:
4/4/06
Deadlifts 205(4)/205(4)/205(4)/205(4)
Dumbbell Step-Ups 25(7)/25(7)/25(7)
Good Mornings 65(6)/65(6)/65(6)
Behind-the-Back Barbell Shrugs 135(5)/140(5)/140(5)/140(5)
Since I sprained my left ankle, I took out Box Squats and replaced them with Deadlifts. The wide stance, taken with Box Squats, would have caused too much pain on my ankle. I did not want to overcompensate on one leg. I, also performed two new exercises, at the end of my workout. The Back Extensions had strengthened my glutes, hamstrings, and lower back very well. I was ready for the Good Morning.
I have been wanting to incorporate this exercise in for some time. The switch to Behind-the-Back Shrugs was more out of curiosity. I have never done them on a consistent basis because the glutes make the exercise difficult to perform. Mastering this exercise will be a challenge.
The clomid has been helping return my natural test levels and probably helping my blood lipid profiles. I am past the half way point of my natural month and I still feel my libido needs some work. After I finish the Clomid, I will evaluate my situation. If my libido returns, I will do another Phera Plex cycle but if it doesn’t, tongkat ali will be on the schedule.
I recomend straight leg deadlifts as apposed to goodmornings, as you can go alot heavier, with less stress to the lower back.
with good mornings it is quite possible for the hamstrings to pull out the lower back - tearing muscle at the insertion sites - and you don’t need a lot or weight to accomplish this either.
wereas this is not as much a concern in the deadlift position, not to mention all the benifits of holding the weight in your hands.[/quote]
I couldn’t agree more. Try them Romanian style. Those stupid good mornings put you at real risk when you get to the down position, especially if your form faulters. And, Romanian deads work lots of different muscles.
[quote]Prisoner#22 wrote:
I recomend straight leg deadlifts as apposed to goodmornings, as you can go alot heavier, with less stress to the lower back.
with good mornings it is quite possible for the hamstrings to pull out the lower back - tearing muscle at the insertion sites - and you don’t need a lot or weight to accomplish this either.
wereas this is not as much a concern in the deadlift position, not to mention all the benifits of holding the weight in your hands.[/quote]
I use Romanian Deadlifts on my repetition day on Fridays. I have not heard this about Good Mornings. Dave Tate and Westside claim to put up some massive weight on Good Mornings. They Good Morning more than most squat.
4/10/06
Incline Barbell Presses 205(3)/205(3)/205(3)205(3)
Incline Dumbbell Presses 90(5)/90(5)/90(5)
Neutral-Grip Rows 120(5)/120(5)/120(5)/120(5)
Supinated-Grip Bent Over Barbell Rows 155(4)/155(4)/155(4)
Pulldown Abs 57(8)/57(8)/57(8)
Increased the weight by ten pounds, for each set, on the incline barbell press. Reps dropped off but I am slowly increasing my strength. I’m looking forward to the day when I can put up 225 for 5 reps, on the incline press. I think that I will switch to clomid-only and drop the nolva for my next PCT. The clomid really has my libido up and my nuts hypertrophied.
I’m curious - if you kept all your gains at a 40/20 taper of nolva, what is your rationale for planning to run nolva at 40mg for 4 weeks in your next PCT?
P22 - I noticed in another post that you were asking why people are using high dosages of nolva. Am I to assume that you think this is overkill and not necessary? If so, why do you think so many people are doing so? Sorry if it seems like a silly question, but you’re one of the most knowledgable guys on the board so I wanted to ask for your thoughts.
Woops, just noticed in your most recent post you’re going to drop nolva and do clomid. Still wondering what your rationale was with the 40mg throughout that you spoke of before though.
[quote]Big Willie Style wrote:
I’m curious - if you kept all your gains at a 40/20 taper of nolva, what is your rationale for planning to run nolva at 40mg for 4 weeks in your next PCT?
P22 - I noticed in another post that you were asking why people are using high dosages of nolva. Am I to assume that you think this is overkill and not necessary? If so, why do you think so many people are doing so? Sorry if it seems like a silly question, but you’re one of the most knowledgable guys on the board so I wanted to ask for your thoughts. [/quote]
I keep my strength and mass gains but my libido didn’t return, even after four weeks of PCT. That’s why I would increase my dose of nolva. I recently bought some clomid and my libido returned on short notice.
[quote]Big Willie Style wrote:
Woops, just noticed in your most recent post you’re going to drop nolva and do clomid. Still wondering what your rationale was with the 40mg throughout that you spoke of before though.[/quote]
Nolva is supposed to stronger than clomid but I have a better response to clomid. I found a site that sells a combination clomid/nolva product. Maybe I will buy that or just go with clomid. Not sure yet.
4/11/06
Deadlifts 205(5)/205(5)/205(5)/205(5)
Dumbbell Step-Ups 25(8)/25(8)/25(8)
Good Mornings 70(6)/70(6)/70(6)
Behind-the-Back Barbell Shrugs 145(5)/145(5)/145(5)/145(5)
Deadlifts went up by a rep on each set. I don’t wear gloves so the bar is tearing the shit out of my hands. The knurling on this bar is razor sharp. When you deadlift, it will tear up any workout pants you have. It would be impossible to use this bar with shorts on. Your shins would be cut up and very sore.
I’m hoping my Phera Plex will come in the mail by Friday. Saturday is when I can start my second cycle. I haven’t decided if I will go 2 weeks or 4 weeks. I am leaning towards 2 weeks because that is where I saw the best results. Maybe I won’t be shutdown as hard with a shorter cycle.
[quote]Big Willie Style wrote:
I’m curious - if you kept all your gains at a 40/20 taper of nolva, what is your rationale for planning to run nolva at 40mg for 4 weeks in your next PCT?
P22 - I noticed in another post that you were asking why people are using high dosages of nolva. Am I to assume that you think this is overkill and not necessary? If so, why do you think so many people are doing so? Sorry if it seems like a silly question, but you’re one of the most knowledgable guys on the board so I wanted to ask for your thoughts. [/quote]
a lot of people are under the assumption that more is better. Some use the argument that the halflife is longer, therefore it needs to be ‘loaded’ This is not the case. Every drug has side effects, and overdosing a drug like an anti E can lead to upregulating the ER, decreasing IGF-1, and other problems, such as fluid leaking from the nipple area.
Basically as I said, if 20mg of nolva is good enough per day to treat breast CA, then it is fine for pct. Some even use 10mg that I know, and to be honest it is good to taper off the drug as well, as it gives the body time to normalize.
I saw this response from Cy Willson in another thread, that I am sure most of you read. I am reposting this to back up P22’s original statement on PP/HD and the like (not that he needs it) because he is a knowledgable dude and won’t steer you wrong.
…
"Well, I think even using the term “designer steroid” would be giving these people who sell these steroids, too much credit. First, they’re not unknown androgens which have never been created previously (as was the case of THG, a true designer steroid), rather these guys are simply looking up exotic looking androgens in Vida’s book, contacting the Chinese and sending them the structure. There’s nothing “innovative” about it and requires zero knowledge. It’s also ridiculous to attempt to sell them as “supplements” as they most certainly aren’t naturally occurring. It’s because of this that the FDA has recently begun to investigate these people selling these products as they’re essentially selling unapproved drugs, not dietary supplements.
My problem however is that these are androgens that were never studied toxicologically to any extent. I think that much of the preaching over the years about the idea that anabolic steroids can be used safely (which they can) has led many to misunderstand the notion and believe to think that all androgens are these completely innocuous compounds, which they most certainly are not. The anabolic steroids which made it to the market within the U.S. or other countries were studied for selectivity prior to human use. That is, they’ve evaluated activity at the progesterone receptor, mineralcorticoid receptor, estrogen receptor and glucocorticoid receptor, to ensure unwanted adverse effects are not a major issue. I think people take this for granted and believe that any androgen is going to be selective and not have this problem. This is not unique only to the study of androgens, but steroidal aromatase inhibitors and really in any situation where the therapeutic compound is going to be a steroid or any compound that may cross-react with other receptors aside from that being targeted. Having a steroid which has activity at the MR for example, could have some serious adverse effects. Anecdotally, I’ve seen some reports in the past of people stating that a certain “designer steroid” had a diuretic effect. Well, I hope this doesn’t come as a shock, but anabolic steroids should not be acting as a diuretic! Yet I’ve commonly seen people tell others that that’s “normal” and nothing to worry about. Well, anabolic steroids do not act as diuretics, much the opposite in fact. If one were, that might be indicating that the steroid in question is acting as an MR antagonist. That’s not something to be scoffed at either. I’ve also seen other reports that fit in with this…headaches, lethargy, drowsiness, nausea, vomiting and it could easily be worse, in some cases resulting in very serious adverse effects, potentially cardiac arrhythmia.
Then, and I don’t know which is worse, you also have these people selling progestins, not androgens, on the most ridiculous and incorrect reasoning I’ve come across. They claim that nandrolone, trenbolone, oxymetholone, and so forth are “progestins” and hence their reasoning is sound. Unfortunately, not one of those steroids are progestins, not structurally nor pharmacologically, rather they are ANDROGENS. Yes, some may coincidentally have some weak progestational activity, but this has nothing to do with their anabolic activity. Progestins have been used to treat cachexia (due to increasing appetite) but the “mass” gained is all fat mass with a small amount of edema. Don’t take my word for it, search for studies on megestrol as that’s FDA approved for treatment of AIDS related cachexia. One could also look at the effects of medroxyprogesterone, another progestin, though it’s used as a contraceptive (Provera) and see that it again does not have beneficial effects upon body composition. To add further to that, one is taking on a number of risks using progestins. Thromboembolism, suppressed endogenous testosterone production, decreased libido, gynecomastia, edema and hypertension as well as negative changes in blood lipids, etc.
The only potential benefit, and the reason why one would gain weight (albeit all fat mass) is that they may stimulate appetite. So in summary, the benefits are that you can increase appetite, produce a gain in weight that is almost exclusively fat mass, and suffer those potential adverse effects I discussed previously."
…
For those that would like to read it for youself check out the Prohormones - The next generation thread
4/13/06
Dumbbell Bench Presses 95(7)/95(7)/95(7)
Elbows-Out Dumbbell Triceps Extensions 45(6)/45(6)/45(6)
Wide-Grip Chin-Ups 5/5/5
Seated Barbell Shoulder Presses - Bottom Half 115(8)/115(8)/115(8)
Machine Preacher Curls 90(8)/90(8)/90(6) + 2 reps after a short rest
DB Side Bends 70(7)/70(7)/70(7)
Dumbbell Bench Presses went up by a rep in each set. I wish my gym had dumbbells that went over 100lbs. It’s frustrating when you get to 100lbs and have no where to go. Took Skullcrushers out after learning a new exercise from Dave Tate (Elbows Out DB Triceps Extensions). Most members in the gym are probably thinking I’m doing the exercise wrong (lol).
I still can’t do my cardio, Bas Rutten’s Mixed Martial Arts Workout, because my ankle is still bothering me. I think I will run clen with my Phera Plex to help minimize any fat gain, from lack of cardio.