I’m not that experienced in this stuff but reckon I’ve experimented at this range enough as a newbie to Wade in here.
I’ve done a couple of short cycles of test only at 300-400MG mg per week
I’m currently on a TRT dosage of approx 140mg per week and have been on that about 4 months.
Observations-
The 140mg dose has me training and recovering like when I was a natural 25 year old. This is great for long term sustainable life as a 40 ish year old bloke.
The firat 300mg cycle made me feel superhuman and the recovery was phenomenal (remember experienced users that was my first cycle and all my T receptors were primed to respond well).
Don’t fuck about doing 6 months at a TRT dosage. You’ll likely make some gains but the recovery from being shut down for 6 months will be horrendous.
Do a 300-500mg pw blast for 16 weeks. train HARD- REALLY HARD. EAT RIGHT. SLEEP. EAT.
Take some PCT and then look at yourself. You’ll have made permamant changes that would NEVER have happened naturally.
Thats my advice if you MUST do something.
My actual full advice is dont fuck about with steroids- they have side effects*
Trying to gain 5-6 pounds of muscle, testing the waters with anabolic. Been lifting for 12 years consistently and I’ve hit a plateau. I may consider heavier cycles way down the line, but a basic clinical practice in medicine dictates that you start with the minimum effective dose and go from there. I see no use in starting with a higher dose that could potentially have way worse side effects (likelihood multiplies exponentially after 200mg) especially when there’s solid evidence of people gaining significant (not MASSIVE GAINS but significant amounts) muscle on 150 a week. The shutdown/downregulation you’re referring to from too low of a dose starts at much lower doses.
On what basis are you disagreeing with the study though? Truth be told, it aligns well with my experience. I understand this is going to sound fantastical and like I’m making it up, but I can post a pic of blood work I got in 2019 where my test came back at ~1450ng/dl and I’ve never touched an anabolic. Dude, I’ve been lifting for 10+ years with solid diet and I am not a big guy. Testosterone just does NOT predict muscle growth. It only predicts it when you’re administering it exogenously.
I didn’t stop, but I went up in dose to 200 mg/wk. I am stronger and fitter now. I have also done some blasts before at higher dosages. This last year I have made pretty dramatic differences to my body. I suppose the Rona kept me away from the happy hour beer drinking.
Even before the 150 mg/wk for a year, I was strong, and had muscle with low T. Perhaps if I wasn’t as developed the changes would have been more dramatic.
I am a believer in the idea that the more muscle you have accrued even if done natty will reduce the gains you make when you cycle. The easier gains natty are even easier on gear.
In regards to the study, it can be a bit misleading. Lean tissue counts for a lot of things that are not dense muscle. So those guys gained a lot, but how much was left after 2 months? Water / glycogen stores in the muscles count as lean tissue, and that drops fast.
Do you have blood work? TRT can do great thing long term, but it is long term, and you shouldn’t do it if you don’t need it. Throw in a couple of blasts, and it can be pretty dramatic in the physical changes.
Yeah I agree, some follow up measure maybe even a year after would have been very useful for the study. P.S., totally unrelated but doesn’t the beer adversely affect the TRT given how estrogenic hops and alcohol are? With respect to blood work, I stopped getting test checked after my last test read 1450ng/dl and I’m still at 5’9 170 ~10% (completely natural mind you). That completely destroyed any faith I have in that number meaning anything lol. It’s been about 1.5 years since that reading, other ones before were in the 8-900 range.
I wasn’t drinking that much beer, but even stopping 6 or so beers a week, over a year made a difference.
There are many factors that go into how much muscle you hold. Someone with low T may grow better than someone with high T because his muscular genetics are better. Give that low T guy with good genetics T and he will be even better though.
Total testosterone can fall through the day, but if you start out in the morning with 1000, you will likely be about 500 at the end of the day. A TRT guy who has his blood checked in the trough and is at 600 has an advantage over a guy who is natty and measures 600 in the morning, because his average TT is higher (he is measuring at low vs the other guy at high point).
Everyone’s different but for me 100mg test cyp gets me to a little over 700, 200mg to a little over 1400. I realize injections may give you more consistent levels but if you are already at 800-900 or more then I don’t think test is your issue in regards to lack of gains.
These two statements don’t align. It’s the same chemical, and has the same action in your body. If natural test doesn’t equate to muscle gain, then injected test wouldn’t either
exogenous test is not exactly the same chemical as endogenous, just as cypionate and and enanthate aren’t quite the same thing. For one, the synthetic/exogenous stuff has a MUCH longer half life. 10-100 minutes vs 8 days.
“Plasma half - life of testosterone ranges from 10 to 100 minutes. The cypionate and enanthate esters of testosterone have longer durations of action than testosterone . Cypionate half - life is about 8 days.”
Once your body cleaves off the ester, the testosterone would have a similar half life to that of naturally produced testosterone. Before the ester is cleaved off, your body isn’t using it like testosterone. The half life being longer allows for less frequent pinning.
The reason it appears exogenous test at a certain level is better than endogenous test at the same level is because with the exogenous test the standard is to measure at the low point, and with endogenous to measure at the high point. The exogenous guy with 600 ng/dL could perhaps have a average testosterone level of 1200 ng/dL depending on how often he is pinning. The guy with the endogenous level of 600 ng/dL could perhaps have an average testosterone level of 400 ng/dL. Big difference there.
I was diagnosed hypogonadal Nov 2019. My total T was 144 ng/dL. My beginning TRT dose was 160mg/wk (pretty close to what you mention). That dose brought my total T to 730ng/dL. This is where that dose approx. lands most guys, somewhere between 600-1000.
I initially gained weight and strength pretty well at that dose. I put on about 15 pounds of muscle in six months and strength increased each week like I was a training newbie. But remember, I was hypogonadal before that, and a scrawny 160 pounds. 160mg/wk brought me up to 175-180 pounds in May 2020. Since then, I’ve blasted and cruised, which is irrelevant to your question.
Did I miss…What are your levels right now? If you are anything below 500 ng/dL, hopping on a TRT dose anywhere from 150-175mgs mayhelp you. If you’re not hypogonadal, I say DONT DO IT You’d be shutting down your natural production and then suffering through PCT for what? You may gain 10-15 pounds in 6 months, just to kill your natural production and then try to recover it? I highly doubt you’d keep that 10-15 after coming off, too.
Basically, what others have said. If you’ve weighed the risks and decided to cycle and then recover natural production, make it worth the risks to your body. Otherwise it’s all risk and no reward, which doesn’t make sense unless your a pure masochist. I agree with @roadie. If you’re wanting a safe and moderately effective first cycle, 300-500mgs/wk should work well for you, if you know how to eat and train well. You’d likely walk away with moderate, keepable gains after PCT.
And as far as safety is concerned, doses of up to 600mgs/wk have been proven safe for up to 20wks. I see you posted that study above already.