There’s been a few threads about the topic, but I’d be interested in a more conclusive ‘this or that’ scenario.
It seems the last few years have seen a changing landscape in the way people are approaching their peri-workout philosophies. I’ve noticed many are now switching from WPIs, hydrolyzed whey, BCAAs, dextrose, WMS, etc. (Surge) to hydrolyzed casein and highly branched cyclic dextrin (Plazma), at seemingly much smaller amounts relative to older protocols. I’m curious to see if there’s any widespread consensus amongst the community here.
Assuming identical price points, which of the following protocols do you believe is superior for a mass gaining phase (or dieting if the answer is different):
Consider these numbers to be the aggregate of the peri-workout timeframe (pre, during, and/or post).
I’ve been using the the first protocol with a Finibar for sometime, but I’m planning to try the Plazma or PeptoPro/HBCD combo soon. I still have a hard time wrapping my head around how the later protocol will lead to better gains and better workouts given how it has less than 1/2 the protein and only 2/3 the carbs, but I suppose a macro isn’t a macro here.
Protocol #1 is what John Berardi recommended for years (double-dose Surge).
Protocol #2 is what John Meadows has recommended recently (essentially the Plazma Protocol).
Ivan, the protein peptides in Plazma and MAG-10 are absorbed into the bloodstream with hardly any digestion being required. Partly because of that, and partly because of the very high leucine content, 20 grams of MAG-10 stimulates muscle protein synthesis to a greater degree than you’d get with about 100 grams of ordinary protein (and yes, there are studies that confirm that). In other words, a gram of one protein is not necessarily equivalent to a gram of another protein.
Keep in mind that it only takes about 3 net grams of protein a day to be turned into muscle tissue to gain a pound of muscle per month, so building muscle is MUCH more a matter of how the short polypeptides and aminos you eat drive SYNTHESIS of contractile muscle proteins from amino acids than how many grams of protein you eat. You have enough available AAs in your body to build a pound or two of muscle immediately, every day.
[quote]TC wrote:
Ivan, the protein peptides in Plazma and MAG-10 are absorbed into the bloodstream with hardly any digestion being required. Partly because of that, and partly because of the very high leucine content, 20 grams of MAG-10 stimulates muscle protein synthesis to a greater degree than you’d get with about 100 grams of ordinary protein (and yes, there are studies that confirm that). In other words, a gram of one protein is not necessarily equivalent to a gram of another protein.
[/quote]
Thanks for the insight TC! Would you say HBCD is similarly more efficient? In other words, would a lower amount of HBCD elicit the same effect as a larger dose of dextrose?
[quote]mertdawg wrote:
Keep in mind that it only takes about 3 net grams of protein a day to be turned into muscle tissue to gain a pound of muscle per month, so building muscle is MUCH more a matter of how the short polypeptides and aminos you eat drive SYNTHESIS of contractile muscle proteins from amino acids than how many grams of protein you eat. You have enough available AAs in your body to build a pound or two of muscle immediately, every day.[/quote]
Could you put this in layman’s terms/explain for those of us not as educated on the subject?
A pound of muscle (454 grams) is roughly 60% water, 20% contractile protein and 20% other (glycogen, cellular lipids)
That means that 20% of the 454 grams, or about 90 grams of the pound of muscle is made of protein. (that means that if you incorporate 3 grams a day for 30 days you have build the proteins for 1 pound of muscle). A typical 200 pound man will turn to waste about 90 grams of protein a day, so over the course of the day you have enough protein exit your body to build a pound of muscle. Your cells contain amino acids which are available to be turned into protein. For a single workout, a lack of recently consumed protein raw materials is not going to prevent muscle building. However the cells have to receive the signal to assemble the amino acids.
Leucine, Carbs, general overfeeding, and training signal the cell to assemble amino acids into contractile proteins.
[quote]Ivan Fyodorovich wrote:
There’s been a few threads about the topic, but I’d be interested in a more conclusive ‘this or that’ scenario.
It seems the last few years have seen a changing landscape in the way people are approaching their peri-workout philosophies. I’ve noticed many are now switching from WPIs, hydrolyzed whey, BCAAs, dextrose, WMS, etc. (Surge) to hydrolyzed casein and highly branched cyclic dextrin (Plazma), at seemingly much smaller amounts relative to older protocols. I’m curious to see if there’s any widespread consensus amongst the community here.
Assuming identical price points, which of the following protocols do you believe is superior for a mass gaining phase (or dieting if the answer is different):
Consider these numbers to be the aggregate of the peri-workout timeframe (pre, during, and/or post).
I’ve been using the the first protocol with a Finibar for sometime, but I’m planning to try the Plazma or PeptoPro/HBCD combo soon. I still have a hard time wrapping my head around how the later protocol will lead to better gains and better workouts given how it has less than 1/2 the protein and only 2/3 the carbs, but I suppose a macro isn’t a macro here.
Protocol #1 is what John Berardi recommended for years (double-dose Surge).
Protocol #2 is what John Meadows has recommended recently (essentially the Plazma Protocol).
[/quote]
Dude try Plazma MAG-10, I sh1t you not I thought the same thing until I tried it. You won’t believe the diffrence