Is anyone combining ‘the Perfect Rep’ with 5/3/1?
The similarities between them are obvious, but grinding out that max rep set flies in the face of it.
CT - Any recommendations?
I’d say there’s 2 options: 1. Switch to perfect rep style 5/3/1, ramp up to the prescribed reps but only up to a weight you can ‘own’. or 2. Exactly the same but still grind out the last set to see how you’re progressing.
from 5/3/1
“The last set of the day is the all-out set. Youâ??ll be going for as many reps as possible. I hesitate to tell anyone to do anything to failure, because thatâ??s not what Iâ??m after. I wouldnâ??t prescribe this. This last set should be a ball buster, though, and itâ??s the one you really need to focus on. This is when you dig in and try to move the world.”
I wouldn’t say Wendler advocates grinding out that last set.
Anyone have a nice detailed sample of 5/3/1 - I’d like to try before I buy.
Appreciated
[quote]Barge wrote:
from 5/3/1
“The last set of the day is the all-out set. Youâ??ll be going for as many reps as possible. I hesitate to tell anyone to do anything to failure, because thatâ??s not what Iâ??m after. I wouldnâ??t prescribe this. This last set should be a ball buster, though, and itâ??s the one you really need to focus on. This is when you dig in and try to move the world.”
I wouldn’t say Wendler advocates grinding out that last set.[/quote]
I see what you mean, I’ve probably fallen into the trap of pushing myself too hard every time on that last set.
Time to get over grinding out every last rep and start ‘owning it’.
[quote]baldadonis2002 wrote:
Anyone have a nice detailed sample of 5/3/1 - I’d like to try before I buy.
Appreciated[/quote]
Theres an article here if you use the search function, but buy it. It’s worth it.
http://www.flexcart.com/members/elitefts/default.asp?m=PD&cid=134&pid=3206
They do seem at odds with each other for the last few sets of 531. There’s nothing stopping you from applying the perfect rep till your speed slows down on rep 1 I would imagine. But then again, I dont have a clue and would really like to know what the authors think about it.
It is my understanding that the perfect rep should be used on ALL REPS, so any program can be done while using the perfect rep method. What I mean is, as long as you’re doing ‘‘reps’’, you should be doing them perfectly, regardless of the program you’re on.
[quote]gogotheviking wrote:
It is my understanding that the perfect rep should be used on ALL REPS, so any program can be done while using the perfect rep method. What I mean is, as long as you’re doing ‘‘reps’’, you should be doing them perfectly, regardless of the program you’re on.
[/quote]
Correct.
[quote]baldadonis2002 wrote:
Anyone have a nice detailed sample of 5/3/1 - I’d like to try before I buy.
Appreciated[/quote]
Are you freakin’ serious. Here, I’ll just send you a copy of the program that I paid for so that you can “try” it. I’m sure after you like it you’ll be sure to actually “buy” one. Would you like us to load the bar and lift the weights for you too…damn. It’s $20, what the hell. Invest in yourself a little and maybe you get a little in return.
[quote]gogotheviking wrote:
It is my understanding that the perfect rep should be used on ALL REPS, so any program can be done while using the perfect rep method. What I mean is, as long as you’re doing ‘‘reps’’, you should be doing them perfectly, regardless of the program you’re on.
[/quote]
It is not possible to apply this concept on every program.
For example, in DC, if I am to do Sumo LegPress for my hams, my main set is in the range of 15-25 reps.
GL doing 20 “perfect reps” straight …
Correct me if i’m wrong CT but it is my understanding that the more reps you need to do, the harder it is to focus on doing it as explosively as possible and therefor, any program calling for some high rep ranges would make it hard to apply ?
Or did I miss something?
Hey Guys!
I am currently on 5/3/1 myself. I am the reader-not-poster type of guy, but maybe I can add something useful to the discussion:
I personally see these 2 possibilities working for ME personally (maybe someone could also benefit from it):
Keep the working set as set out in the 5/3/1 manual, since it is definately working for me and apply the perfect rep by using 3 rep ranges for my assistance moves.
For example:
Bench (Max Reps for the day)
Incline DB Bench (8x3)
DB Rows (8x3)
Light Machine rows and Face Pulls (Superset) (2-3x 12-15 reps)
Since I am preparing for a powerlifting meet in 4 months I try the following:
“Ramp” up to a selected rep range. This month I try to get used to heavier weights again (There is no use of 15+ rep worksets before powerlifting competition in my opinion) Thus I start of with one month where I ramp at a rep range of 5, to get used to lifting heavy again.
During the next months I will increase the intensity incorporate 3-1 reps. Assistance will be used as in example 1.
Thus:
Bench “Ramp” up to a good set of 5 reps
DB Incline Bench (8x3)
DB Rows (8x3)
Light Machine rows and face pulls (Superset) 2x 12-15 reps
Maybe CT could comment on this strategy, but I think it seems quite reasonable.
Hope I could help!
Arthur
[quote]Scottish 190 wrote:
[quote]baldadonis2002 wrote:
Anyone have a nice detailed sample of 5/3/1 - I’d like to try before I buy.
Appreciated[/quote]
Are you freakin’ serious. Here, I’ll just send you a copy of the program that I paid for so that you can “try” it. I’m sure after you like it you’ll be sure to actually “buy” one. Would you like us to load the bar and lift the weights for you too…damn. It’s $20, what the hell. Invest in yourself a little and maybe you get a little in return.[/quote]
:))
nice and for real
If I remember correctly (and I’m old and may not be remembering correctly), Siff or maybe Simmons once said that every rep should be performed as though you’re trying to accelerate the bar as quickly as possible. Even though the bar itself may not move very quickly because the weight is so high, just TRYING to accelerate the bar actives the muscle fibers differently.
If you look at it that way, you can apply “the perfect rep” part of The Perfect Rep to just about anything except routines that are calling for specific speed parameters on the eccentric and concentric. You can’t perform a SuperSlow version of the perfect rep because they’re fundamentally different.
But you can do the part where you lower the weight quickly to the point you’ve found where you should stop at and then turn it around and accelerate as quickly as possible to extension with 5/3/1 or SuperSquats or NROL or HST or Westside or whatever and the way you perform the rep won’t really change the original workout.
But the best part of The Perfect Rep for me is the autoregulating part. And if you merge that into 5/3/1 or NROL or whatever, then you’re just basically using 5/3/1 or whatever to determine your exercise selection and split. And I don’t think there’s anything necessarily wrong with that, it’s just not 5/3/1 anymore when you do that.
[quote]The Pencil Neck wrote:
If I remember correctly (and I’m old and may not be remembering correctly), Siff or maybe Simmons once said that every rep should be performed as though you’re trying to accelerate the bar as quickly as possible. Even though the bar itself may not move very quickly because the weight is so high, just TRYING to accelerate the bar actives the muscle fibers differently.
If you look at it that way, you can apply “the perfect rep” part of The Perfect Rep to just about anything except routines that are calling for specific speed parameters on the eccentric and concentric. You can’t perform a SuperSlow version of the perfect rep because they’re fundamentally different.
But you can do the part where you lower the weight quickly to the point you’ve found where you should stop at and then turn it around and accelerate as quickly as possible to extension with 5/3/1 or SuperSquats or NROL or HST or Westside or whatever and the way you perform the rep won’t really change the original workout.
But the best part of The Perfect Rep for me is the autoregulating part. And if you merge that into 5/3/1 or NROL or whatever, then you’re just basically using 5/3/1 or whatever to determine your exercise selection and split. And I don’t think there’s anything necessarily wrong with that, it’s just not 5/3/1 anymore when you do that.[/quote]
Correct on all counts.
just few queries CT:
1 - can we slide some plyo’s in the perfect rep style such as mb throws and such? i like releasing plyo’s rather then bb stuff for speed work
2 - you’ve posted that 2/week is optimal for training each muscle per week using isolation exercises if needed…obviously higher reps are used here so you’d go perfect rep style here again but would you do less sets as you’d do more reps per set? like ramp up 3 - 4 sets?
3 - and just on doing 2/days, you’ve also posted that the first session ramps up the second but would you need to do th same session in the same day? also if you had a weak point should you do that as the 2nd session?
[quote]swans05 wrote:
just few queries CT:
1 - can we slide some plyo’s in the perfect rep style such as mb throws and such? i like releasing plyo’s rather then bb stuff for speed work
2 - you’ve posted that 2/week is optimal for training each muscle per week using isolation exercises if needed…obviously higher reps are used here so you’d go perfect rep style here again but would you do less sets as you’d do more reps per set? like ramp up 3 - 4 sets?
3 - and just on doing 2/days, you’ve also posted that the first session ramps up the second but would you need to do th same session in the same day? also if you had a weak point should you do that as the 2nd session?
[/quote]
Of course. I like to start a workout by using activation drills like jumps and throws.
Higher reps are not NECESSARILY used for isolation work. You CAN do slightly higher reps (4-6 on isolation drills with a moderate range of motion, up to 6-8 for isolation exercises with a short range of motion) but it is not necessary to do so. When I do isolation work, I often stay in the 2-4 reps range. But yeah, you still use the perfect rep most of the time. Since you are still starting at around 50-60% of your maximum and adding weight every set, you will not be able to ramp up for as long, so you’ll end up doing less set. It is not your goal to do less sets, it’s just a reality when ramping with higher reps.
Ideally you work on the same muscle groups in both sessions.
[quote]The Pencil Neck wrote:
If you look at it that way, you can apply “MAX FORCE REP” part of The Perfect Rep to just about anything except routines that are calling for specific speed parameters on the eccentric and concentric. You can’t perform a SuperSlow version of the perfect rep because they’re fundamentally different.
[/quote]
CORRECTED
The terminology seems to be getting mixed up. The perfect rep is not the same as the max force rep, is it?
The Perfect Rep training system is made up of the max force rep style and the force spectrum ramping. I could use the max force rep style in any workout but I would not be inline with the perfect rep system unless there is some force ramping going on too.
thanks mate, would the plyo’s be part of the 2 x 1 / 6 x 3 sets or added in?
5/3/1—strategy
perfecrt rep----tactics
why the hell would you NOT include some plyo, balance, athletic movement etc in your workout?? Your workout is YOUR workout, make it fit for YOU. who are you there for? are you interested mostly in fitting into someone else’s “program”, or feeling better and looking better?
I use 5/3/1 because it makes sense. I like perfect rep because it make sense too. Each day of each split is a hybrid of both plus some fun shit just because it feels good and make me look better…in and out in an hour.
It’s all good, do what feels right to you. some days I add a set just because. some days I experiment with a different movement,so what. I am having a great time at the gym, feeling and looking better than I ever have, at age 54.
so, yea, I guess I am a 5/3/1 guy,but I use it as the framework only. I do every rep of every set with focused attention and feel what I am doing. I don’t do anything sloppy or hurried. I try to make every rep an accelerated, “owned” rep.
I’ll shut up now.
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