Perception, Priority and Beauty

[quote]PaddyM wrote:
Sometimes walking through new york city is miserable. Some people might say: “it’s lovely, it’s bustling” but it’s much less than that in my opinion. If you are on the subway and make a conscious effort to notice all the little details, all the assholes, all the run-down buildings, the pollution, the disgusting waterways, Addicts begging in the subway halls, it becomes a totally different scenario. Your mood and point of view changes just by noticing your surroundings. It’s simple but many people don’t actually take the time to do it.

[/quote]

Yes that too.

Living in New York City this is an everyday occurrence. The city actually registers it’s subway artists so they don’t get harassed by the police during rush hour. At any given time of the day or night you can see a musician in one of the busy subway stations playing music. Some people stop and listen most just keep walking. It really boils down to getting to where you gotta be. In NY almost everyone is in a rush especially during morning and evening rush hour. You will hear a great musician in the subway and want to listen but, shit you gotta get to work.

I used to work by Lincoln Center during rush hour like clockwork there is always a classical musician playing on the subway platform. I usually stand close and listen until my train comes, dropping a dollar if I have change in my pocket. Am I gonna miss the train because he’s playing Mozart? Fuck no, but I do appreciate that they are there making my trip a little more pleasant.

[quote]PaddyM wrote:
Sometimes walking through new york city is miserable. Some people might say: “it’s lovely, it’s bustling” but it’s much less than that in my opinion. If you are on the subway and make a conscious effort to notice all the little details, all the assholes, all the run-down buildings, the pollution, the disgusting waterways, Addicts begging in the subway halls, it becomes a totally different scenario. Your mood and point of view changes just by noticing your surroundings. It’s simple but many people don’t actually take the time to do it.

[/quote]

You obviously accentuate the negative. Sometimes if you really slow down and pay a attention to the little details, you’ll see the excellent craftsmanship that went into making some of the huge skyscrapers, the almost limitless diversity, the electricity you feel when standing in time square, the wealth of museums and culture to experience. It’s all in how you view thing.

Also…Fuck Connecticut.

[quote]jasmincar wrote:

[quote]Anonymity wrote:
Good quick read. Very interesting to think about. Thanks OP.

It reminds me a little of Malcom Gladwells book tipping point, in which he makes the argument that setting and surroundings basically dictate what people will do and how they will act.[/quote]

This is so true. In that case If you put 80 musician that takes themselves very seriously, well dressed in suits playing in an auditorium with all kind of wanna be sophisticated elderly people in the audience who act as if what the musician played is very good, the guy who doesnt have a critical mind will think whatever is played must be GREAT. They use this in commercial sometimes.
[/quote]

I haven’t read Tipping Point, but I agree. I’d like to have seen the Washington Post extend this experiment into a second day, and have Joshua Bell play at the same time the following morning with a big fuck-off sign announcing him as a world-class concert violinist, and see how many people stop then.

Best not to disclose that he’s playing a violin worth 3.5 million bucks, though.

By the way. I choose to include all “positive” things in my post which was a mistake as I should have included the “negatives” as well. Thanks Arsenal fan.

The point is that you should be aware of your surroundings and not just go through the motions.

[quote]OatsNMilk wrote:
I dunno about classical music, but if rammstein was playing, I would stop and listen.[/quote]

DU!!! DU HAST!!! DU HAST MICH!!! DU HAST MICH GEFRAGT!!! DU HAST MICH GEFRAGT!!! DU HAST MICH GEFRAGT UND MICH HAT NIX GESACHT!!!

das stimmt!

I lived in DC for 2.5 years. People do not make eye contact with each other on those trains. You could always tell the tourists because they would laugh and talk during the commute. I had foot surgery and had to wear a walking boot for the first 2 months. I walked very slowly, one step at a time. I didn’t look homeless and looked like every other commuter on the train. No one, man or woman, ever gave me their seat when the train was packed. I had to leave an hour earlier to go to work so that I could sit on the train while wearing that boot. I oculdn’t wait to move out of that town.

It’s been said a few times, but yeah, people going to a subway station in NY in the morning have places to be.

Can you imagine telling your boss that you’re late because someone was playing a beautiful piece of work this morning? I can’t see that going over very well.

Don’t get me wrong, I love Bach and would rather hear that than the iPod from the guy next to me, but I rarely have time to stop and enjoy things like that.

Does that mean I should make clips of plastic bags floating around?

Should I look at the stars in a warm summer night?

Should I write stupid poems and listen to enya?

The experiment is interesting but there are so many factors to consider that it s only good for entertainment.
As mentiond above the music is not interesting for most people.
It may be considered art by a small minority which usually does not use the subway.
If they had him play in front of a stupid museum for music instruments, he would have drawn more attention.

In my opinion, the experiment lacks substance. The price of the instrument and the music being played are not relevent.

Because I’m not much for listening to music, I’d be unlikely to stop and listen. I find beauty in what I see. However, something that that may take my breath away in one location may go unnoticed in another. We compartmentalize our lives because we have to. I would compare it to the way in which we hear in a noisy room. Our ears and brains pick the sound relevent to us at the time. If we are constantly open to any and all sensory input, we’d be immobile. If I’m travelling on a subway, I’m more likely to be focused on what is relevant to my goal. I’m open to the natural panoramic vista when I’m in the forest and it’s peaceful.

I think we need to collectively get over ourselves. Stop to smell the flowers and appreciate beauty when it’s appropriate.

This is old, but a good lesson in the importance of CONTEXT.

Context is the bias-tinted glasses we put on to selectively catch a few dimensions of the picture, but almost never all dimensions.

There is a video of him playing in the subway, too. Not sure if that was posted.

[quote]ouroboro_s wrote:
In my opinion, the experiment lacks substance. The price of the instrument and the music being played are not relevent.

Because I’m not much for listening to music, I’d be unlikely to stop and listen. I find beauty in what I see. However, something that that may take my breath away in one location may go unnoticed in another. We compartmentalize our lives because we have to. I would compare it to the way in which we hear in a noisy room. Our ears and brains pick the sound relevent to us at the time. If we are constantly open to any and all sensory input, we’d be immobile. If I’m travelling on a subway, I’m more likely to be focused on what is relevant to my goal. I’m open to the natural panoramic vista when I’m in the forest and it’s peaceful.

I think we need to collectively get over ourselves. Stop to smell the flowers and appreciate beauty when it’s appropriate. [/quote]

In other news: Water is wet. The sky is blue…

I don’t get it. The experiment “lacks substance” yet drives the very message in the last line of your post. Did you miss that? =P

The price of the instrument and music played ARE relevant, only because (if you read the article) the guy had very recently put on a concert where tickets were expensive and people flocked to hear the renowned musician. The point was that the lack of attention was disproportionate to the weight of the musician’s name and his music and instrument; it was in direct contract to the attention the man and his music DID receive (where he played on such an instrument in a high profile setting) a short while ago at a concert with him as sell out act.

When we DON’T pay a high price for a ticket and AREN’T dressed up for a concert, we’re likely to not notice a virtuoso playing. It’s observer bias and it’s what drives sales of high-priced goods.

I just experienced this at Best Buy tonight. I went in just to play around and saw a nice 3D TV. They didn’t have the glasses on display but the guy showed me these amazing speakers ($3,000 a pair) and played a Beatles CD that sounded sublime. Yes, I could “tell” the difference, but had he not given the mini history lesson on why these speakers are so awesome, I’m not sure I would’ve been as wowed.

Catch someone’s attention long enough and you can make them believe something by planting the right seeds, and they’ll swear the next time they experience what you warned them about, they will have relived it just the way you described it would be.

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:

[quote]ouroboro_s wrote:
The price of the instrument and music played ARE relevant, only because (if you read the article) the guy had very recently put on a concert where tickets were expensive and people flocked to hear the renowned musician. The point was that the lack of attention was disproportionate to the weight of the musician’s name and his music and instrument; it was in direct contract to the attention the man and his music DID receive (where he played on such an instrument in a high profile setting) a short while ago at a concert with him as sell out act.

[/quote]

I understand your point. However, the high priced concert was presumably attended by people with an interest in classical music. People have self selected themselves by paying for the tickets and showing up. Why would we expect the same level of attention amongst a group of people who have done neither nor would they naturally have an interest in classical music? It isn’t just that it’s out of context and people don’t pay attention. The same people are unlikely to pay and attend even when it’s in context.

Some people like classical music and will pay to listen to it. Many people don’t and won’t stop to listen, in context or not. To me the experiment elicits the response of Duh, no kidding. The same can be said of any niche interest. The price of the instrument and the weight of the musicians name would only be relevant to lover’s of classical music. So you are correct, water is wet and the sky is blue.

The fact that that information is included gives me the feeling that because few people took note, we are judged to be philistines and what a shameful state the world is in. It comes off as a bit superior.

[quote]ouroboro_s wrote:

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
The price of the instrument and music played ARE relevant, only because (if you read the article) the guy had very recently put on a concert where tickets were expensive and people flocked to hear the renowned musician. The point was that the lack of attention was disproportionate to the weight of the musician’s name and his music and instrument; it was in direct contract to the attention the man and his music DID receive (where he played on such an instrument in a high profile setting) a short while ago at a concert with him as sell out act.

[/quote]

I understand your point. However, the high priced concert was presumably attended by people with an interest in classical music. People have self selected themselves by paying for the tickets and showing up. Why would we expect the same level of attention amongst a group of people who have done neither nor would they naturally have an interest in classical music? It isn’t just that it’s out of context and people don’t pay attention. The same people are unlikely to pay and attend even when it’s in context.

Some people like classical music and will pay to listen to it. Many people don’t and won’t stop to listen, in context or not. To me the experiment elicits the response of Duh, no kidding. The same can be said of any niche interest. The price of the instrument and the weight of the musicians name would only be relevant to lover’s of classical music. So you are correct, water is wet and the sky is blue.

The fact that that information is included gives me the feeling that because few people took note, we are judged to be philistines and what a shameful state the world is in. It comes off as a bit superior.

[/quote]

See, I didn’t read it that way at all. I didn’t see it as a judgment of others bustling through the subway area.

I do think context is the most critical element, but also that, unless you are FAMILIAR with the musician and that genre of music, you won’t stop to notice. If you LOVE that kind of music and regularly listen to it, don’t you think you’d be more likely to stop for a sec and listen? I think so.

If DJ Tiesto, perhaps the most famous trance DJ in the world, were spinning in the same spot, do you think the classical music fans would stop and say, “Wow, he spins so well!” Or do you think they’d ask themselves what the fuck that “noise” is?

It is context and it is perception.

If I don’t know shit about break dancing, have no knowledge of the technical aspect and the difficulty of certain moves, I won’t notice some incredible breaking going on in such a busy area; I’ll walk by and think they’re some stoned teenagers having fun. But, if I’m a breaker myself OR enjoy watching them break, I might stop and say, “Damn, those guys are good.”

I honestly don’t think the piece was meant to point out the people as “Phillistines,” uncultured and uneducated. This wasn’t a piece to point out who has “taste” and who doesn’t; it was meant to juxtapose extremes–renowned musician playing an insanely expensive instrument in a non-descript area–and show irony. That’s it.

Then point was that, when primed for it, we’ll see what we want to see. When paying for an expensive concert, we’ll expect a good time.

And for the record, there is nothing wrong with such social experiments that simply state the sky is blue, water is wet, Ourboro picks fights ;)…it’s just how you say it that matters. I’m not about to touch a hot stove to prove that it’s hot.

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
I’m not about to touch a hot stove to prove that it’s hot.[/quote]
You should try it some time. It really does drive home the point that it’s hot or the knife is sharp :slight_smile:

I wasn’t trying to pick a fight. The fight picked me. This must be Russia. ha.

Perhaps some of the earlier posts coloured my perception.

You just miss arguing with me. Admit it!

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
You just miss arguing with me. Admit it![/quote]

I have a teenager. All my argument requirements are filled at the moment :slight_smile:

[quote]bcingu wrote:
Wow, thank you for posting this. It is very thought-provoking. I can only assume that I would have stopped, as I am a big Bach fan, but I don’t know whether I would have truly appreciated the experience.
That being said, I can recall specific buskers whom I’ve encountered throughout the years that have incited a strong response from me. While on vacation in Singapore, I happened across somebody playing an Engrish version of Air Supply’s ‘Lost in Love,’ and it was honestly one of the highlights of my trip. And fuck you all, that is a great song.[/quote]

Nothing wrong with alittle Air Supply!

I don’t think there is anything groundbreaking here.

As others have said, the biggest story here is just that people don’t like classical music. It is a matter of preference.

If Lil Wayne or whatever the kids are listening to nowadays was standing in the Metro beat boxing, or whatever it is rappers do nowadays, more people would have stopped to take note.

Also, as others have said, people are in a hurry. I personally don’t appreciate being inundated with music against my will and being expected to pay for it (though the musicians in DC seem to be understanding and not pushy, unlike the bums).

What I think some posters here may not realize, especially if they don’t have a lot of dealings with big cities and their public transit, is that musicians trying to make a buck are a dime a dozen on Metro.

I already heard this story on NPR