Good point…thanks for the correction
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Is this significantly different how christians (or anyone) treated conquered areas and citys during that time? Crusaders excelled with rapes and pillaging.
The difference is in the beliefs underlying their actions. Islam commands and allows what the Muslims did. In Islam, you are allowed to have sex slaves. You are told to fight and conquer non-Muslims and force them to convert to Islam or make them second-class citizens if they are “people of the book”. The Christian faith forbids rape and pillaging. This is why Muslims are still engaging in these behaviors today wherever they can and defend or deflect from what their ancestors did, while Christians lament this part of their history.
The empirical evidence is overwhelming. Couple examples:
Mainstream academia is corrupt on the issue of Islam and biased in its favor. I’ve experienced this personally in my readings of mainstream academic works on the subject.
There is also a good book called “The Myth of the Andalusian Paradise” written by a Spanish scholar on the truth of the “pluralism” in al-Andalus. He proves that al-Andalus, like other Islamic civilizations at the time, was a two-tiered society where Christians were treated as dhimmis, second-class citizens who were under the subjection of the Muslims.
Christians did not give any freedom to other religions though. It was instant death.
This is not exactly true. When the Crusaders conquered Jerusalem, they initially killed many, but allowed freedom of religion. Christians conquered the entirety of Africa except for Ethiopia, but Africa isn’t 100% Christian.
I think these points rely on what I spoke about Islam not getting in to the scientific revolution and enlightenment, everything in the west was relatively anti-scientific too before these developments. I would say that Christianity became what it should be only because of enlightenment.
The scientific revolution was driven by Christianity. Most of the great scientists of the scientific revolution were decidedly Christian.
Why do you think Islam’s golden age was not an anomaly, while what has been happening in the West for the past 400 years was one? And to be clear, when I say that Islam’s golden age was an anomaly, I mean in relation to what should be expected of the Islamic religion, not in general.
I think this is under control. Every European country has tightened or are tightening their immigration policies. I have some muslim friends, but they’re very westernized and secular. I think we’re not giving up our society or culture so easily, and I personally see (biasedly) that modern western society model is best so far, and I’m not changing it to anything else willingly.
I’m glad that the your Muslim friends have been westernized and secular. I had a good Muslim friends in grade school that was a great guy. But we cannot base our perception of a religion as a whole on our anecdotal experience with people of that religion. It has to be based on what the religion itself teaches. That is most important. And when it comes to giving up your society and culture, I understand that you’re Finnish. Those in Britain, Germany, France, and some other European countries cannot say the same.
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USA dominates,but who rules. You can’t say we do. It’s Israel by proxy. The planets run by Baal worshippers
What is an AC? Just curious.
Too finicky. Its always going back and forth on the issues!
Good for aluminum though.
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Apostolic Christian.
Thank you. I had to look that up.
Theres always a lot of suspicion of cloistered communities. Like they have some secret sauce or some kind of strange sex practices.
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I don’t know. I feel like people of faith naturally stick together. I don’t think there is anything inherently bad about it. It’s one of the stronger things that people find in common with one another. I sent my boys to a Catholic school and the community within that parish is very tight. Similar situation. You need a furnace guy? Joey over in pew 5 has a company. You need a landscaper? Dave over there has a company. They will give you a parish discount. They are people who spend time together and have a great deal in common. They support one another.
I think regardless of what faith you follow, it is deeply personal and they are beliefs that people are willing to die for. I honestly can’t think of anything else that bonds people together like a shared faith. You can find greed, depravity and abuse in any religion. Anywhere that a power dynamic exists there is the potential for abuse. It’s human nature. But for the most part, I think people just want to be left to believe what they believe and practice their faith in the way they feel best with people who worship the same way they do.
I do think it’s unfortunate that while faith bonds those with shared beliefs, it creates terrible divides between those without them.
Anyway, my whole point in this thread was that sharing a race is not something that is strong enough to bind people together. It’s just my opinion and I doubt it counts for much.
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Oh, yeah. I agree 100% and think its a good thing.
I was just speaking of outsiders among the greater community in which the cloistered community resides.
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I agree, but think it holds true for any group that lives and dies together. People on the front line in war, for example.
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Yeah. There is always the “I heard they sacrifice dogs and small children every full mood and dance naked around fires on the new moon” shit going on. Meanwhile it’s just Bingo on Fridays.
It’s not Just bingo.
Its the really good bingo.
Those Amish chicks though. Watch out for them! Woo!
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I grew up in a catholic neighborhood. I’ve seen the dance of a thousand brewskis.
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My aunt lived next door to an Amish family when I was around 10 or so. I would spend a few weeks in the summer there. It’s was a really fantastic experience. They had a daughter about my age and we played together. I watched a cow give birth and they named the calf after me. Lol. What a weird thing to remember.
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Anyway. I have no business in this thread. Lol. I’ll see you when you post more food porn. 
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Speaking of- its almost fish fry season. The church down the street got mothballed in a reorganization of the diocese a couple years ago, and now I gotta find a new one. 
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Bummer.
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I don’t brush that off, those are some of the hardest texts in the Bible. A few things matter. First, the Old Testament isn’t describing Israel being told to kill all ‘neighbors’ everywhere, it’s specific judgments in a specific time tied to the conquest of Canaan. Second, the language in those accounts often uses ancient war rhetoric that sounds total, even when the narratives later show survivors, so many scholars think it’s not always meant as literal extermination. Third, the Bible frames the conquest as divine judgment on entrenched evil, and Israel is later judged the same way when they become corrupt, so it’s not racial superiority. And for Christians, the final lens for God’s character and how we treat enemies is Jesus, who forbids revenge and teaches enemy love. So I take the moral tension seriously, but I don’t see it as God endorsing genocide as a timeless model.
Are you asking whether the text is morally justifiable, or whether it was literally genocide in the modern sense, or both?
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Dude, Ted’s Fish Fry in Watervliet, NY in my top 5 favorite places to eat and I miss it so damn much. I moved to the south and they don’t do fish fry here. I assume that’s due to the lack of Catholics in the past 200 years or so in this part of the country. And though I personally think the Lenten fast and fish thing is dishonestly practicing tradition, I will absolutely crush fish fry on Friday through March.
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The shop I worked in did this whole set for St. Kateri over toward your neck of the woods (if I understand it correctly) The original got knocked down in a tornado. The whole congregation was in contact with us throughout. Really nice people.
Its nice to see that they’re getting some glass in too.
Its actually one of my favorites mostly because of their involvement. Brings it home and makes it real.
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