[quote]stellar_horizon wrote:
ZEB, have you seen the loose change video? I’m not big on conspiracy theories, but it definitely tweaks my curiosity:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2023320890224991194[/quote]
An often ignored fact about the argument regarding 9/11 - the majority of people who do not have some sort of curiosity of a conspiracy also believe Bush is actually a fine president, and that Democrats spend more money then Republicans, they also get information from their TV and use it in arguments, they believe most Senators aren’t corrupt, the lower house is full of liberal pests, the executive branch has the power to manipulate fundamental American Ideals such as privacy, torture, illegal use of force, American public schools are decent in contrast to the world, natural selection is the natural form of business, the government has the right to buy your information, and agree on actually forfeiting freedom through the creation of new laws originating from fear/terror.
Remember you won’t find anywhere, a proven fact from the government how the towers fell, the 9/11 commission report STATED it was ‘not finished’ ‘[their] view a beginning chapter.’ Why is there not, on what is the most significant American Disaster in this new century, a finished authorized agreed upon proven report.
Oh, why is there not, on what is the most significant American Disaster in this new century, a finished authorized agreed upon proven report.
I would go as far as to say their position becomes highly suspect considering its origins residing in dominantly pro-Bush quarters, voters who are obviously incapable of rational thought to be still agreeing with him at this point in time, or the people who believe in the current pop-mantras like terror and how necessary war is.
A former president very keen and cautious about this happening in the future to the USA.
A passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter without adequate inducement or justification.
It leads also to concessions to the favorite nation of privileges denied to others which is apt doubly to injure the nation making the concessions; by unnecessarily parting with what ought to have been retained, and by exciting jealousy, ill-will, and a disposition to retaliate, in the parties from whom equal privileges are withheld.
And it gives to ambitious, corrupted, or deluded citizens (who devote themselves to the favorite nation), facility to betray or sacrifice the interests of their own country, without odium, sometimes even with popularity; gilding, with the appearances of a virtuous sense of obligation, a commendable deference for public opinion, or a laudable zeal for public good, the base or foolish compliances of ambition, corruption, or infatuation.
-George Washington
He warned about the dangers of stationing an army inside a foreign country for long periods of time, the danger both domestic and foreign.
[quote]stellar_horizon wrote:
ZEB, have you seen the loose change video? I’m not big on conspiracy theories, but it definitely tweaks my curiosity:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2023320890224991194[/quote]
No sorry, I was too busy closely reviewing the Kennedy assassination tape.
This guy thinks LBJ had something to do with it.
And you know it all makes sense…
After that I’m watching a documentary on proof that Elvis is not actually dead!
Then of course it’s off to examine why the US government would fake the freaking moon landing!
You know the US government should stop trying to pull off all these hoaxes…
I’m just so disgusted…
[quote]metalsluggx wrote:
An often ignored fact about the argument regarding 9/11 - the majority of people who do not have some sort of curiosity of a conspiracy also believe Bush is actually a fine president, and that Democrats spend more money then Republicans, they also get information from their TV and use it in arguments, they believe most Senators aren’t corrupt, the lower house is full of liberal pests, the executive branch has the power to manipulate fundamental American Ideals such as privacy, torture, illegal use of force, American public schools are decent in contrast to the world, natural selection is the natural form of business, the government has the right to buy your information, and agree on actually forfeiting freedom through the creation of new laws originating from fear/terror.
Remember you won’t find anywhere, a proven fact from the government how the towers fell, the 9/11 commission report STATED it was ‘not finished’ ‘[their] view a beginning chapter.’ Why is there not, on what is the most significant American Disaster in this new century, a finished authorized agreed upon proven report.
Oh, why is there not, on what is the most significant American Disaster in this new century, a finished authorized agreed upon proven report.
I would go as far as to say their position becomes highly suspect considering its origins residing in dominantly pro-Bush quarters, voters who are obviously incapable of rational thought to be still agreeing with him at this point in time, or the people who believe in the current pop-mantras like terror and how necessary war is.
A former president very keen and cautious about this happening in the future to the USA.
A passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter without adequate inducement or justification.
It leads also to concessions to the favorite nation of privileges denied to others which is apt doubly to injure the nation making the concessions; by unnecessarily parting with what ought to have been retained, and by exciting jealousy, ill-will, and a disposition to retaliate, in the parties from whom equal privileges are withheld.
And it gives to ambitious, corrupted, or deluded citizens (who devote themselves to the favorite nation), facility to betray or sacrifice the interests of their own country, without odium, sometimes even with popularity; gilding, with the appearances of a virtuous sense of obligation, a commendable deference for public opinion, or a laudable zeal for public good, the base or foolish compliances of ambition, corruption, or infatuation.
-George Washington
He warned about the dangers of stationing an army inside a foreign country for long periods of time, the danger both domestic and foreign.
[/quote]
Okay…I have to ask it:
Who do YOU think killed President Kennedy?
ZEB, as Christians you and I know better than to put our lives in the hands of men, even if these men should proclaim allegiance to the Lord. The only one I fully trust is God. As some men are corrupt, so too is it possible that leaders of nations are also corrupt.
Let me again stress that I AM NOT A CONSPIRACY THEORIST, but many unanswered questions and inconsistencies remain. The U.S. and U.N. sat back and allowed 800,000 innocent Africans to be slayed in a wave of genocide in the mid 1990’s. Do you know that the U.S. and U.N. are allowing similar atrocities to occur right under their noses in the Balkans TODAY?
Do you know that the KLA [quote][Kosovo Liberation Army][/quote] which provoked Milosovic to defend the indigenous Serbs was actually being funded by Osama Bin Laden? The United States government did, and we fought hand-in-hand with Muslim terrorists to oppress a suffering people because we had some vested interest.
http://www.g2bulletin.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=1
GLOBAL JIHAD
Kosovo campaign against Christians
Italian prosecutor’s wiretap shows premeditation
By Aleksandar PAVIC
Publishing Date: 19.05.06 08:59
A little more than two years ago, between March 17 and March 19, 2004, Muslim Albanian mobs, estimated to number as high as 50,000, went on a lethal rampage, killing 19 Christian Serbs, injuring hundreds, and permanently expelling thousands from their ancestral homes in Serbia’s UN-run province of Kosovo and Metohia.
In addition, more than 20 Orthodox churches were torched and several Christian cemeteries desecrated.
Earlier this month, Italian police authorities, who have uncovered several Albanian organizations from Kosovo which ran illegal emigrant routes with the help of tourist agencies, falsified documents and fictitious marriages, leaked a telephone conversation between two Muslim Albanian members of the said criminal group recorded on March 17, 2004.
As reported by the Belgrade Novosti daily, the investigating prosecutors in Bari, Italy, led by prosecutor Giuseppe Scelsi, have come to the conclusions that the Kosovo anti-Christian pogroms were “pre-planned and orchestrated.”
It is significant that the two-year old wiretap is being publicized just now, during the so-called Kosovo Final Status talks in Vienna, a U.S. and British-led effort to pressure Serbia into granting independence to a Muslim-dominated Kosovo. Italy is a part of the so-called 6-member Contact Group /made up of the U.S., Britain, Germany, France, Italy and Russia/ overseeing the negotiating process and has troops in Kosovo, mostly stationed around the 14th century Decani Orthodox monastery in Pec, where a number of Italian soldiers have been injured while defending the monastery from Albanian attacks over the last several years. Italy is generally viewed as being unenthusiastic about the prospects of Kosovo independence and the formation of a terrorist-laden landmass in its vicinity, so this leak may be interpreted as a way for Italy to voice its displeasure with U.S. and British support for the radical Muslim elements in Kosovo.
The following is a partial transcript of the recorded telephone conversation between two Kosovo Albanians, Hazer /H/ and Muharem /M/:
M: Hello
H: Hi, Rema, how are things going?
M: Alright.
H: You’re still asleep?
M: Yes.
H: Why don’t you ask your brother where he is?
M: Why, you’re in Mitrovica [a town in northern Kosovo, divided between Serbs in the north and Albanians in the south], right?
H: No, I’m not in Mitrovica… We’ve torched all the churches in Prizren [a historic southern Kosovo town, from which the Christian population was completely expelled in March, 2004].
M: Hell, torch them all!
H: We’ve already torched them all, turn on the television so you can see
them burning!
M: I just turned it on.
H: They’re showing Prizren right now… All the churches have been torched, not one is left.
In a second conversation, between Hazer and another, unidentified man /U/, the latter appeared reluctant to talk about torched Orthodox Christian churches by telephone:
H: - Where are you?
U: - At Bujar’s.
H: - We burned them all, the bitches… everything is in flames, all of Yugoslavia.
U: - I know, I was there until just recently…
H: - You were there? And at that church…
U: - And the church was torched?
H: - The local church… I was proposing that we make an agreement… KFOR [quote][the NATO-led “peacekeeping” force in Kosovo, accused of allowing endless anti-Christian violence in Kosovo since its deployment in 1999][/quote]
pulled back and a little later they told me we had torched it.
U: - Don’t talk like that, you’ll destroy us all.
H: - /laughs/ Oh, why are you afraid, my brother.
U: - Leave it alone, you know they tap the phones. Don’t talk [about this] over the telephone.
H: - Come on, don’t worry…
As can be noted, Western-led international troops “pulled back” and allowed the terrorizing of the Christian population to take place. This is the face of the “War on Terrorism” the Western public rarely gets to see.
-G2B contributor Aleksandar PAVIC
Apologies for the hijack, but you get my drift. It’s naive, shallow, and unrealistic to deny that world leaders or even international communities don’t always abide by a “proper moral code”. My point is, if they turn their backs on 800,000 innocent souls, then what’s the big deal on sacrificing 3,000?
interesting link…
http://www.tenc.net/articles/choss/fin.htm
[quote]stellar_horizon wrote:
ZEB, as Christians you and I know better than to put our lives in the hands of men, even if these men should proclaim allegiance to the Lord. The only one I fully trust is God. As some men are corrupt, so too is it possible that leaders of nations are also corrupt.
[/quote]
If you are a Christian, you should quit questioning the government. God wants them in charge, and you better like.
Peter 2:13: “For the Lord’s sake accept the authority of every human institution, whether of the emperor as supreme, or of governors, as sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to praise those who do right.”
Romans 13:1: “Let every person be subject to the governing authorities; for there is no authority except from God, and those authorities that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resist authority resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.”
[quote]stellar_horizon wrote:
ZEB, as Christians you and I know better than to put our lives in the hands of men, even if these men should proclaim allegiance to the Lord. The only one I fully trust is God. As some men are corrupt, so too is it possible that leaders of nations are also corrupt.
Let me again stress that I AM NOT A CONSPIRACY THEORIST, but many unanswered questions and inconsistencies remain. The U.S. and U.N. sat back and allowed 800,000 innocent Africans to be slayed in a wave of genocide in the mid 1990’s. Do you know that the U.S. and U.N. are allowing similar atrocities to occur right under their noses in the Balkans TODAY?
Do you know that the KLA [Kosovo Liberation Army] which provoked Milosovic to defend the indigenous Serbs was actually being funded by Osama Bin Laden? The United States government did, and we fought hand-in-hand with Muslim terrorists to oppress a suffering people because we had some vested interest.
[/quote]
Um…I hate to even address this in a serious tone…But since it’s you…
No one and I mean NO ONE can keep such secrets!
If one person knows of such a nutty thing then another will know…and another and another and…well you get the idea.
Secondly, President Bush is a lot of things, but he and those under him are not going to go around blowing up buildings and killing US citizens!
I beg you to stop reading that crap!
Keep this in mind as well:
If you have an action it can be attacked as not being real. That is exactly how the conspiracy theorist nut balls work (not saying you are one).
Kennedy is killed…Consipriacy theories abound!
Elvis dies! No he’s not really dead it’s a conspiracy!
UFO abductions…The government is covering it up!
We land on the Moon in 1969. No we didn’t it was faked by the government!
9-11 buildings blew up…The governemnt did it!
There is solid proof that everyone one of the above things actually did not happen as most people think. Very solid convincing evidence.
many theories abound and they sound soooooooo real.
But they are all soooo wrong.
Please spend your time in the word at least your time will be productive…
No sorry there are no secrets, none!
The government can’t even deliver the mail on time…
I beg you to stop it.
Thank you.
Zeb
(I will now go back to making fun of all posts on this thread
[quote]ZEB wrote:
many theories abound and they sound soooooooo real.
But they are all soooo wrong.
No sorry there are no secrets, none!
[/quote]
Yep, bad things just happen… to democrats I mean.
Paul Wellstone, Fighter
The Nation
May 27, 2002
Paul Wellstone is a hunted man. Minnesota’s senior senator is not just another Democrat on White House political czar Karl Rove’s target list, in an election year when the Senate balance of power could be decided by the voters of a single state. Rather, getting rid of Wellstone is a passion for Rove, Dick Cheney, George W. Bush and the special-interest lobbies that fund the most sophisticated political operation ever assembled by a presidential administration. “There are people in the White House who wake up in the morning thinking about how they will defeat Paul Wellstone,” a senior Republican aide confides. “This one is political and personal for them.”
[…]
Wellstone is right. His race is being read as a measure of the potency of progressive politics in America. If he wins, a blow will be struck not just against the Bush machine but against those in the Democratic Party who argue for tepid moderation.
[…]
When I first met the President, he called me ‘Pablo,’" Wellstone jokes. “That lasted a day or two. Then they started trying to figure out how they were going to get rid of me.” While other Democrats approached the new Administration cautiously, Wellstone raised hell. In one of the first confrontations between the Administration and the newly Democratic Senate, Wellstone used his chairmanship of a subcommittee on worker safety to demand that Bush Labor Department officials justify the Administration’s rejection of federal ergonomics standards. And Bush aides are still smarting over a Wellstone amendment to the President’s tax cut plan that diverted $17 billion to veterans programs.
[…]
With the Enron scandal fresh in America’s memory, Wellstone will also push the idea that there are interests worth fighting against. “When the oil company money comes in, we’re going to talk about it,” he says. “We’re going to fight like hell.”
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0510-04.htm
Sen. Wellstone, Seven Others Die in Plane Crash
FOX NEWS
October 25, 2002
EVELETH, Minn. – Sen. Paul Wellstone, D-Minn., died in a plane crash Friday along with seven others.
Bush had been scheduled to go to Minnesota Monday to campaign for Wellstone’s opponent, former St. Paul Mayor Norm Coleman. That trip has been canceled.
The race between Coleman and Wellstone was watched across the nation as one of the contests that could determine the majority party in the Senate.
http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,66707,00.html
Missouri Gov Mel Carnahan Killed In Plane Crash
October 17, 2000
The governor, locked in a tight Senate race against Sen. John Ashcroft, R-Mo., was flying to New Madrid, Mo., to campaign when the plane went down amid fog and rain.
Missouri Voters Elect Late Governor Carnahan to Senate
Los Angeles Times
ST. LOUIS - Missouri’s late Democratic Gov. Mel Carnahan, killed in a plane crash three weeks ago, won election to the U.S. Senate early Wednesday in one of the oddest and most emotional races in political history.
Flags still flew at half-staff as Missouri voters went to the polls and gave him a narrow victory over incumbent Sen. John Ashcroft, a staunchly conservative Republican.
http://archives.thedaily.washington.edu/2000/110800/N9.Carnahan.html
Was Paul Wellstone Murdered?
October 28, 2002
In a senate that is one heartbeat away from Republican control, Wellstone was more than just another Democrat. He was often the lone voice standing firm against the status-quo policies of both the Democrats and the Republicans. As such, he earned the special ire of the Bush administration and the Republican Party, who made Wellstone’s defeat that party’s number one priority this year.
[…]
Wellstone now joins the ranks of other American politicians who died in small plane crashes. Another recent victim was Missouri’s former Democratic governor, Mel Carnahan, who lost his life in 2000, three weeks before Election Day, during his Senatorial race against John Ashcroft. Carnahan went on to become the first dead man to win a Senatorial race, humiliating and defeating the unpopular Ashcroft posthumously. Ashcroft, despite his unpopularity, went on to be appointed Attorney General by George W. Bush. Investigators determined that Carnahan’s plane went down due to “poor visibility.”
Carnahan was the second Missouri politician to die in a small plane crash. The first was Democratic Representative Jerry Litton, whose plane crashed the night he won the Democratic nomination for senate in 1976. His Republican opponent ultimately captured the seat from his successor in November.
[…]
One former senator, John Tower, also died in a small plane crash. Tower was best known as the chair of the Tower Commission, which investigated the Reagan/Bush era Iran/Contra scandal.
Another member of a prominent government commission who died in a small plane crash was former Democratic representative and House Majority Leader Hale Boggs. Boggs was best known as one of the seven members of the Warren Commission, which investigated the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. The commission found that Lee Harvey Oswald was acting alone when he killed the president. Boggs, it turns out, had “strong doubts” that Oswald acted alone, but went along with the commission findings. Later, in 1971 and 1972, he went public with his doubts. He was presumed dead after the small plane carrying him and Democratic Representative Nicholas Begich disappeared in 1972.
Texas Democratic Representative Mickey Leland also died in a plane crash. In his case, the six-term member of Congress and outspoken advocate of sanctions against the apartheid government of South Africa, died while traveling in Ethiopia. Another American politician to die overseas in a plane crash was the Clinton administration’s Commerce Secretary, Ronald Brown, whose plane went down in the Balkans.
[…]
There is no indication today that Wellstone’s death was the result of foul play. What we do know, however, is that Wellstone emerged as the most visible obstacle standing in the way of a draconian political agenda by an unelected government. And now he is conveniently gone.
http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/14399
Why Daschle and Leahy?
Nov. 21, 2001
It’s the question no one in Washington or the media wants to publicly examine: Why were two high-profile Democrats targeted by the anthrax mail terrorist?
http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2001/11/21/anthrax/index_np.html
FBI & BUSH ADMINISTRATION SUED OVER ANTHRAX DOCUMENTS
Judicial Watch Wants to Know Why White House Went on Cipro Beginning September 11th
What Was Known and When?
http://www.judicialwatch.org/1967.shtml
“The covert operators that I ran with would blow up a 747 with 300 people to kill one person. They are total sociopaths with no conscience whatsoever.”
~Former Pentagon CID Investigator Gene Wheaton
“I am concerned for the security of our great Nation; not so much because of any threat from without, but because of the insidious forces working from within.”
~ General Douglas MacArthur (paranoid nutball)
[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
Was Paul Wellstone Murdered?
October 28, 2002
In a senate that is one heartbeat away from Republican control, Wellstone was more than just another Democrat. He was often the lone voice standing firm against the status-quo policies of both the Democrats and the Republicans. As such, he earned the special ire of the Bush administration and the Republican Party, who made Wellstone’s defeat that party’s number one priority this year.
[…]
Wellstone now joins the ranks of other American politicians who died in small plane crashes. Another recent victim was Missouri’s former Democratic governor, Mel Carnahan, who lost his life in 2000, three weeks before Election Day, during his Senatorial race against John Ashcroft. Carnahan went on to become the first dead man to win a Senatorial race, humiliating and defeating the unpopular Ashcroft posthumously. Ashcroft, despite his unpopularity, went on to be appointed Attorney General by George W. Bush. Investigators determined that Carnahan’s plane went down due to “poor visibility.”
Carnahan was the second Missouri politician to die in a small plane crash. The first was Democratic Representative Jerry Litton, whose plane crashed the night he won the Democratic nomination for senate in 1976. His Republican opponent ultimately captured the seat from his successor in November.
[…]
One former senator, John Tower, also died in a small plane crash. Tower was best known as the chair of the Tower Commission, which investigated the Reagan/Bush era Iran/Contra scandal.
Another member of a prominent government commission who died in a small plane crash was former Democratic representative and House Majority Leader Hale Boggs. Boggs was best known as one of the seven members of the Warren Commission, which investigated the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. The commission found that Lee Harvey Oswald was acting alone when he killed the president. Boggs, it turns out, had “strong doubts” that Oswald acted alone, but went along with the commission findings. Later, in 1971 and 1972, he went public with his doubts. He was presumed dead after the small plane carrying him and Democratic Representative Nicholas Begich disappeared in 1972.
Texas Democratic Representative Mickey Leland also died in a plane crash. In his case, the six-term member of Congress and outspoken advocate of sanctions against the apartheid government of South Africa, died while traveling in Ethiopia. Another American politician to die overseas in a plane crash was the Clinton administration’s Commerce Secretary, Ronald Brown, whose plane went down in the Balkans.
[…]
There is no indication today that Wellstone’s death was the result of foul play.
What we do know, however, is that Wellstone emerged as the most visible obstacle standing in the way of a draconian political agenda by an unelected government. And now he is conveniently gone.
http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/14399[/quote]
Yes…this is the kind of goofy stuff that I like to read from you!
I highlited this little tidbit above and below, just to try to snap you back into reality:
“There is no indication today that Wellstone’s death was the result of foul play.”
But please do not let this momentary lapse back into relaity stop you from posting other nutty stuff.
You are fast becoming a T-Nation legend for entertaining posts.
No…you really are no kidding.
Hit me with another Just’.
And please don’t just say nutty stuff about the Bush administration. Let loose with some of your theories about past government cover ups.
Those are the ones that everyone wants to read about.
You have an audience…now don’t let us down!
[quote]doogie wrote:
If you are a Christian, you should quit questioning the government. God wants them in charge, and you better like.
[/quote]
Oh Your Fucking GOd.
You are obviously a complete idiot and should not be allowed to live in a country like the United States of America which was formed due to the questioning of government and authority.
[quote]doogie wrote:
If you are a Christian, you should quit questioning the government. God wants them in charge, and you better like.
[/quote]
Man, that is a disservice to Christianity and government alike.
From a purely logistical level, that is absolutely the worst thing you could say to support your position.
Zeb is at least consisent with the dismissive stance. Sure, it has no logical validity, but he serves his purpose.
Believe whatever you wish, I really don’t care. However, if you are going to be an apologist, at least be competent.
No need to reply, I’ll never be back. Not with inconsistent tactics such as you have displayed.
Honestly, I am dissappointed. You have written better arguments before concerning other issues.
I remember a few years ago seeing film from a camera that actually was able to capture clear images of bullets travelling at full speed. It was extremely impressive to watch. I am fairly certain that cameras like that would be prohibitively expensive to install, operate, and maintain for security camera purposes. This is why you do not see a fast moving jet in the air in any of the camera frames.
However, you can easily debunk the missile theory by watching the fireball during the impact frame. The fireball blows backwards in the opposite direction of the projectile’s flight path. All US munitions explode in one of three ways: forwards, upwards, or downwards. No modern munition that could have been used (ie a cruise missile) would or could have created the backwards directed fireball.
Todd
[quote]Kratos wrote:
The government almost always lies about stuff anyway. Casualty reports, WMD’s, etc., etc. I guarantee you the death toll in Iraq is substantially higher then they let on. [/quote]
As an Iraq veteran (and there are many other Iraq veterans on this board), I can state that you are flat out wrong. Every casualty that I observed in theater is on the officially released lists. I have never met another veteran who said anything different. It is possible that there are a handful of administrative oversights, but there is no doctoring of these numbers. The soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines would not stand for that.
Todd
[quote]Sepukku wrote:
doogie wrote:
If you are a Christian, you should quit questioning the government. God wants them in charge, and you better like.
Oh Your Fucking GOd.
You are obviously a complete idiot and should not be allowed to live in a country like the United States of America which was formed due to the questioning of government and authority. [/quote]
He is being sarcastic.
LOL I bloody well hope so.
[quote]Sepukku wrote:
LOL I bloody well hope so.[/quote]
Being from England I am sure you were also being sarcastic but I think at least one post seemed to be taking him seriously.
If he was being sarcastic too, I will just have to hang my head in shame.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Sepukku wrote:
LOL I bloody well hope so.
Being from England I am sure you were also being sarcastic but I think at least one post seemed to be taking him seriously.
If he was being sarcastic too, I will just have to hang my head in shame. [/quote]
heheh, no shame in that! 
(Yes, my pores ooze with cleverness… A.K.A. grease.)