But why limit to 12 reps? 200x12 and 120x20 come out to the same volume
I think that’s one argument against DUP is the adaptive interference, but on the bright side you’re looking at getting used to two different stimuli
I think the classic Bulgarian method isn’t cut out for natty recreational lifters who aren’t on copious amounts of roids and don’t have 8-10 hour training sessions.
But in the offseason do you really need to be doing heavy singles or doubles? You could, but you need a reason, and your performance won’t be very good if you are squatting for sets of 12 earlier in the week. Some high rep assistance work could be useful, but combining a high frequency/intensity peaking program with bodybuilding is a recipe for failure on both objectives.
Umm… the point was that 12 reps is too much already, 20 would just be ridiculous. You are basically training for endurance at that point instead of maximum neural output, which is what you want if you are doing max or near-max singles.
It’s called jack of all trades, master of none. You could run a marathon on the weekend too. Or just do crossfit.
The way Mike T and Eric Talmant were doing it was basically a mock meet 3 times a week, nothing but singles on the comp. lifts and maybe a GPP session somewhere in there. You can get through a session like that in around 2-3 hours, less if you move faster.
But the question is why? Do you want to do this just because it sounds fun to lift heavy all the time or do you want the best results possible? It’s unlikely that this sort of training is optimal for anyone, the Bulgarians got through it because they lived in a training camp with all necessities provided and had on-site massages and other therapies, plus lots of drugs. And a lot of people didn’t make it. They don’t call Abadjiev “The Butcher” for nothing. Before he died he was coaching some kids in California, one went to the Olympics but tested positive and they sent him home. There is a video where a new guy tells him that his knees hurt and he is supposed to squat. Abadjiev replies “you are a weightlifter, your knees will hurt. Now go and squat”. This is the man whose program you want to follow, or some version of it.
I do powerlifting because I want results AND I want to lift heavy all the time. I don’t want to barely squat 400 and then spend the next 3 months doing 275-315 when I can keep pushing 400 into 410, 420, etc
I think doing 20 rep squats wouldn’t be wise - but whats the harm in doing 20 rep leg press? or 20 rep single leg work? I did 15-20 reps on accessory for any regularly periodized programs, so I don’t think this would be too far fetched, especially when there’s not too much exercise selection off heavy singles and back off sets.
You sound like you would be best off with someone else writing your training.
I mean that’s what I’m currently doing, but doing 8-10 reps at light weight for months and then another few months of 5s nowhere near my max gets boring. I know I’ve gotten stronger off it, which is nice
Wendler has some decent programs that circulate joker sets (heavy singles) in here and there. It’s not something you do every workout and they do rotate but just an idea.
I used to be exactly same as you. First time I benched 225 I wanted to do it every workout. By the time I could bench 315 for reps I had learned that to get there I rarely benched 315.
Right now max effort I can hit 315 for 7-8 reps fresh. But I benched far far less loads getting the point where I can. At some point it’s sustainability and you can get much stronger by staying less injured.
If you’re not into a particular training style then look into other options, you can lift challenging weight year round but you don’t need to be going over 90% either.
Last year I went to a seminar with Josh Bryant, he was talking about offseason training and his basic strategy would be working up to around 85% for a set of 1-3 reps then do volume work with sets of 5 between 70-80% and 2-3 minute breaks, you would get some hypertrophy and build work capacity but also not get weak and slow. You can combine that with high rep assistance work (not the comp. lifts obviously), although 20’s is kind of pushing it. If your technique is solid then you can use variations of the comp. lifts as your main lift, like high bar or SSB squats, if not the stick with the comp lifts and get good at them.
Does that sounds more appealing?
Hell yeah!
I think I’m going to have to start charging people for coaching at some point.
Watch this video for some ideas:
How many world class lifters have you worked with?
All of them
I share this mentality. Join the conjugate crew! This is week 15 of me lifting 90-95%+ twice a week (on main lift variations). I love having two max effort days a week, dynamic or repetition effort days are the ones I do not look forward to.
I ran conjugate in the past. I liked it for the most part I don’t feel like I made the progress I wanted until I programmed for myself. Things I kept were the rotating lift variations.
Crazy thing is I started getting stronger when I started shooting for RPE8-9 on my top sets and then drop setting for a few volume sets.
I also used various rep ranges for this. 7,6,5,4,2 but rarely singles.
Also I learned lift variations needed to be closer to the primary lift. Basically meaning i didn’t do 3 board press with reverse bands with chains with a tsunami bar.
There was a lot good I got from conjugate but I had to bastardize it into what fit for me and I hit a lot of PRs doing that.
IMO, this is what the conjugate method is. It isn’t a strict program to follow, it is merely a set of principles.
You don’t need to do 100 variations if that doesn’t work for you. You can stick with 4-5 that you know build your main lifts/hit your weaknesses and rotate through them every month or two.
I’m still new to conjugate training (week 15), and am learning what type of intensity I’m able to recover from. I’m still guilty of taking my ME work to a RPE9.5-10 too regularly, which has forced a deload or two along the way. So I definitely see where capping it at RPE8-9 would work well.
I can see working up to an ME set of doubles or triples being of value, but I’m not sure a 7 rep max effort set would provide the right stimulus I’m going for on this day. I’m doing speed work on my DE day where I’m often benching in 3 clusters of triples (9reps) and typically hitting failure on the last set, but I wouldn’t use this type of work on ME day.
I’ve kind of derailed this thread. But I’m interested to hear more comments/experiences of yours (or others) for using the conjugate method, as I think I’m going to be running it long term. Feel free to bring this discussion over to my training log to keep from bumping this thread on peaking.
When I’d program a 7 rep day it was usually an rpe 7-8 day and was a way to deload for me. I moved a moderately heavy weight I could get good reps with and be moderately challenging without having a testicle explode. I only rotated those in as needed. Honestly it’s fun having rotating rep ranges not going everyday and hammering yourself to death.
And yeah I stuck with 3 variations per lift and that included the primary comp lift 2 variations would be for my weak point. If that weak point ever changed I’d switch those lifts. I also do switch stance dead lift as a lift variation and I still think that’s what increased my deadlift after a long plateau.
Idk if you have seen Matt wennings stuff on this but he has tons of stuff on conjugate for raw lifting on YouTube. Imo he’s got the best bit of information out there on conjugate.
I’m currently running an off-season template that was written by him! (Day 2 this evening)
Thanks for the info Marc.
No problem good
Luck in the future man!