Yeah, the language “beat” and “hit” and “smack” is not what some of us mean by loving, corrective, and corporal discipline. It is inflammatory and degrading to associate the type of correction advocated by some as “child abuse.”
jpb
My wife and I decided to start a family (last night!). If my sons come out anything like me, they’re getting spanked. My mom tried non-corporal punishment with me briefly and it failed utterly.
So for those saying people who will spank their kids should practice birth control, well, too bad! I plan on out-procreating you.
MUahahhahahaa!1!!!1
[quote]pushharder wrote:
The problem I have with Mr. Stream is his implication that one is a child molester/abuser if one doesn’t do things his way.
If he’d had just offered up his method and how it seems to work well with his one child that would’ve been dandy. But no, he resorted to ultra-inflammatory accusations that all those that spank, abuse. That was a low blow on his part and completely uncalled for.
And he has had ample opportunity to deny that was his implication and so far he has refused to do so.[/quote]
I didn’t start a thread about child abuse. I’m talking about hitting children, not teenagers or adults. I personally do not believe it is right, fact I think it is wrong. I don’t apologize for brlieving this, nor will I back down.
I do talk about it, because so many think it can’t be done.
I haven’t detailed how I raised my daughter, because I don’t think anyone would be as willing as I was, to do what I did. Plus it would most likely have side tracked the issue.
First I responded to my daughters cries right away. This included the two o’clock feeding. Fact most times she never got a chance to cry. Even from the next room I could hear her wake. The reason for this was the instill a great sense of security in her.
I never lied to her. If I didn’t want her to know, I told her so and why. I did this to develope a greater trust between us and teach her the art of communication.
Timeouts were for me during those stressful moments, so I wouldn’t loss my cool. Then we’d talk about, again and again. Just like that guote “do I have to tell you a thousand times” yes you do. You have to tell them over and over until they understand.
My daughter was a daddy’s girl. She was not spoiled. She had boundries that she couldn’t cross. My daughter never had a fit in her life. If she wanted something she asked, if it was no she was told why, simple as that.
My daughter is about to turn eighteen in a couple of weeks. Which is why I posted this thread. Everyone said I couldn’t and wouldn’t be able to do it. Wait till the teenage years. I tried to tell them I had already taken care of that in the first six years. I was right and they were wrong.
So yes I’m glouting about it and in an arrogant fashion. Simply because I did what so many said couldn’t be done. And I did it on my own!
[quote]ouroboro_s wrote:
I think most of us grew up when corporal punishment at home was the norm. We all reminisce about the times dad got pissed (angry) and smacked us in the back of the head so hard we saw stars.
Then there was the time mom laid into me with a wooden spoon at age 14 when wearing daisy duke shorts. We laugh about it now and play one-up-manship over it. However, I remember the lessons delivered at the time.
We should all raise our children to the best of our abilities but sometimes a smack in the back of the head is called for.[/quote]
Yep, actions speak louder than words. some well placed actions can take the place of a lot of words, ie, lip service.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
The problem I have with Mr. Stream is his implication that one is a child molester/abuser if one doesn’t do things his way.
If he’d had just offered up his method and how it seems to work well with his one child that would’ve been dandy. But no, he resorted to ultra-inflammatory accusations that all those that spank, abuse. That was a low blow on his part and completely uncalled for.
And he has had ample opportunity to deny that was his implication and so far he has refused to do so.[/quote]
Exactly push, my kids were spanked with a swat or two maybe ten times each. They’re 14 now. they get high honors, do not get in trouble, and in no way think they were abused.
2 years ago my son got a little cocky with me at a PSU tailgate. I picked him up by the front of his t shirt with one hand and told him with a smile on my face that he was pissing me off. He stopped being so cocky.
I could go into my theories on child rearing for days, but it’s simple. Treat kids like you would treat and train a dog well. Take charge and be the leader. Don’t tolerate disobedience. Punish quickly, but don’t go overboard. Be consistent, back your words with deeds.
Believe me, kids can make you very quickly. when my daughter was 6 she was scolded for acting up. My then fiancee went to talk to her and my daughter about behaving. My punishment of the night light going out was worrying her, since both had some afraid oft he dark stuff going on.
She said I wouldn’t do that, just behave and my daughter told her, “no my dad did this with his finger, ( point a certain way), and when he does this, he’s serious. He’ll do it.”
She was six. A six year old had me made. So I would point my finger. Kids will figure you out and soon as they can walk. Remember, they have nothing to do all day but to pay attention to a few things.
[quote]ouroboro_s wrote:
streamline wrote:
My reward is a relationship that is second to none. We talk about everything, and still at seventeen she seeks my advice own personal matters.
The hubris in that statement knocks me on my ear. I don’t doubt there are a number of us here that have excellent relationships with our teens. It’s interesting how you have set yourself at the pinnacle. I find that to be arrogant. Perhaps a bit of humility and introspection is in order.
I have excellent relationships with both my daughters. However, I would never announce mine as better than someone elses. It isn’t a contest.
You are free to parent your children in the manner you see best. Don’t presume to denigrate and offer unsolicited advice to other parents.[/quote]
Yep, so very true. Both of my kids are doing very well and I have great relationships with them. They get great grades, they are polite, they can think for themselves. And they got app. 10 swats on the rear a piece.
I wouldn’t call that abuse, hell my daughter must have bit my son about 500 times from the age of 6 months to two years. She did my son a lot more harm than me.
[quote]ctschneider wrote:
My parents occasionally spanked me when I was little, but apparently it had little to no effect on me, so they gave up on it. Finally when I was six or seven, they happened upon an alternative form of punishment, a punishment which was far, far worse as far as seven year old me was concerned. I would practically beg for a spanking instead…
Every time I misbehaved, they sat me down at the dinner table with a full glass of V8 juice and would not let me leave until I polished off the glass. Trust me, washing a kid’s mouth out with soap ain’t got nothin’ on making him drink V8 juice.
Needless to say that I rarely, if ever, misbehaved with the threat of such vile punishment hanging over my head.[/quote]
Not a bad idea. I would also make the kids do weird punishments. Opening and closing the door 100 times to make sure they knew how to do it correctly. I made them once watch the church channel with the elderly nun and mass on a sunny saturday afternoon in july.
My wife and I practically pissed ourselves laughing during that one. My minister father in law and a mother Superior patient of mine thought it was some pretty slick work.
The kids always wished they got a swat over some of dad’s goffy ideas.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
But you implied spanking = hitting = child abuse. Over and over again.
I’ve gone through all my posts. I think I use beatings twice, sorry that’s what we called them back then. I also mentioned hitting a couple of times.
Maybe your guilt is reading things into my statements that are not there. Please feel free to correct.
[quote]streamline wrote:
pushharder wrote:
But you implied spanking = hitting = child abuse. Over and over again.
I’ve gone through all my posts. I think I use beatings twice, sorry that’s what we called them back then. I also mentioned hitting a couple of times.
Maybe your guilt is reading things into my statements that are not there. Please feel free to correct.
[/quote]
I believe this was in your opening post:
"I know many are not going to agree with this. To those all I have to say is, I’ll bet you feel all big and strong when you’re laying a beating on someone 1/10 your size. Now that’s an asshole not a T-Man. "
The implication you’ve made by so strongly laying out your parenting methods followed by the above statement is that corporal punishment is abuse.
It may only be me but I don’t sense waves of guilt rolling off Push over this issue any more than they emanate from me.
When you throw out incendiary statements, please expect a strong response.
Finally, for the love of God, enough with the T-man crappolla.
While I don’t think there will ever be complete peace on earth, I actually think there would be more peace if children were lovingly and corporally disciplined. Compare the types of offenses occurring in high schools a generation ago with what is occurring today. “Time outs” certainly haven’t helped to reduce school shootings or drug abuse or any number of criminal activities.
A wise man once said, “Because the sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.”
While Mr. Stream has obviously done a fine job in rearing his daughter, as a general rule, undisciplined children turn out to be undisciplined adults.
jpb
[quote]pushharder wrote:
streamline wrote:
Maybe your guilt is reading things into my statements that are not there. Please feel free to correct.
Indeed I am feeling some guilt. I’m guilty of speculating that you were a reasonable guy and maybe we just had some minor disagreements when all along I should’ve realized you were just another internet jackass with a small mind that can only talk big while his fingers tap on a keyboard.
[/quote]
You’re pretty damn good at side stepping. I’m not even sure you read my posts. Maybe you scanned them, because I never made any references to child abuse.
My reference to guilt was a direct result of your misreading my posts.
[quote]streamline wrote:
I know many are not going to agree with this. To those all I have to say is, I’ll bet you feel all big and strong when you’re laying a beating on someone 1/10 your size. Now that’s an asshole not a T-Man.
[/quote]
How in the world can you continue to maintain that you did not imply we are child abusers if we spank our children in light of this statement? I have never in my life felt “all big and strong” when disciplining my children and I resent your foolish and ignorant statement here.
Push, I agree with you on the various children thing. With my five, some (one boy in particular, my fellow moose hunter if you look in my profile pictures), got a lot more discipline than some of the others!
jpb
[quote]ouroboro_s wrote:
Finally, for the love of God, enough with the T-man crappolla.[/quote]
These should be the “Strong Words” for the entire coming year.
[quote]streamline wrote:
I haven’t detailed how I raised my daughter, because I don’t think anyone would be as willing as I was, to do what I did. Plus it would most likely have side tracked the issue.[/quote]
Why would you think that the experience of raising a single daughter would apply universally? Even to those raising boys or multiple kids? It’s been my experience (from my own kids and from my friend and family) that daughters are much easier to discipline than boys, and that single kids are also easier than many.
Do you think that, for example, 3 young boys (as my brother has) are just as easy to discipline as a single daughter?
It seems to me your trying to extrapolate from what’s pretty much the “best case scenario” discipline-wise; having no idea how rambunctious and stubborn boys can be vs. girls; nor having ever experienced yours kids fighting for the same toy/treat/book/TV remote, etc.
You don’t even make allowances for the fact that kids also have different characters and some are simply more adventurous than others and will get into more mischief. Kids aren’t all alike; there’s no way the experience of a parent with one (or many) can ever be universally applied to everyone else while expecting the same results.
[quote]streamline wrote:
Timeouts were for me during those stressful moments, so I wouldn’t loss my cool. Then we’d talk about, again and again. Just like that guote “do I have to tell you a thousand times” yes you do. You have to tell them over and over until they understand.
My daughter was a daddy’s girl. She was not spoiled. She had boundries that she couldn’t cross. My daughter never had a fit in her life. If she wanted something she asked, if it was no she was told why, simple as that.
My daughter is about to turn eighteen in a couple of weeks. Which is why I posted this thread. Everyone said I couldn’t and wouldn’t be able to do it. Wait till the teenage years. I tried to tell them I had already taken care of that in the first six years. I was right and they were wrong.
So yes I’m glouting about it and in an arrogant fashion. Simply because I did what so many said couldn’t be done. And I did it on my own![/quote]
It’s ‘Gloat’.
You’re ‘Gloating’.
There’s an ‘A’.
[quote]Otep wrote:
streamline wrote:
Timeouts were for me during those stressful moments, so I wouldn’t loss my cool. Then we’d talk about, again and again. Just like that guote “do I have to tell you a thousand times” yes you do. You have to tell them over and over until they understand.
My daughter was a daddy’s girl. She was not spoiled. She had boundries that she couldn’t cross. My daughter never had a fit in her life. If she wanted something she asked, if it was no she was told why, simple as that.
My daughter is about to turn eighteen in a couple of weeks. Which is why I posted this thread. Everyone said I couldn’t and wouldn’t be able to do it. Wait till the teenage years. I tried to tell them I had already taken care of that in the first six years. I was right and they were wrong.
So yes I’m glouting about it and in an arrogant fashion. Simply because I did what so many said couldn’t be done. And I did it on my own!
It’s ‘Gloat’.
You’re ‘Gloating’.
There’s an ‘A’.[/quote]
shhhhhh. I thought that was supposed to be a secret.