Peace on Earth, Well not Today.

Off Topic
61

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Stream buddy, maybe we be a-talkin bout two different things but I doubt it based on your first post.

I am NOT talking about “beating”, crippling, harming a kid. I’m not talking about slapping a kid around in a drunken rage.

I am talking about getting after a kid physically when appropriate and in a spirit of love. Thing is, I don’t have to talk in the abstract. I don’t have to theorize or speculate. I’ve done it. I have the track record.

My kids, even when they were young, would heed my voice. No bullshit timeouts (sometimes maybe) and reasoning and cajoling and sappy pleadings and ugly scenes and temper tantrums, etc., etc. Why? Because I backed it up with the consequences of a stinging rear end.

I loved 'em and didn’t have to say “I’m sorry I hit you” and all that because I wasn’t sorry and they had it coming and I knew they knew that I loved them.

The four year old doesn’t need an explanation of why not to play in the street. The four year old just needs to know that Dad said “Don’t do it” and that’s all there is to it. Now a 14 year old is an altogether different animal and some reasoning and such (with promised consequences) is necessary but we’re not talking older kids here.[/quote]

Well said Push you explained it very clearly.
I have a 5 y/o boy and 3 y/o girl and they understand when i say “No” if they keep going what the consequences will be. I am not looking forward to dealing with my girl when she is 14 :slight_smile:
I will need all the help i can get then i think !!

62

[quote]streamline wrote:
pushharder wrote:
Stream buddy, maybe we be a-talkin bout two different things but I doubt it based on your first post.

I am NOT talking about “beating”, crippling, harming a kid. I’m not talking about slapping a kid around in a drunken rage.

I am talking about getting after a kid physically when appropriate and in a spirit of love. Thing is, I don’t have to talk in the abstract. I don’t have to theorize or speculate. I’ve done it. I have the track record.

My kids, even when they were young, would heed my voice. No bullshit timeouts (sometimes maybe) and reasoning and cajoling and sappy pleadings and ugly scenes and temper tantrums, etc., etc. Why? Because I backed it up with the consequences of a stinging rear end.

I loved 'em and didn’t have to say “I’m sorry I hit you” and all that because I wasn’t sorry and they had it coming and I knew they knew that I loved them.

The four year old doesn’t need an explanation of why not to play in the street. The four year old just needs to know that Dad said “Don’t do it” and that’s all there is to it. Now a 14 year old is an altogether different animal and some reasoning and such (with promised consequences) is necessary but we’re not talking older kids here.

I have to disagree with you. I raised my daughter without ever laying a hand on her. My reward is a relationship that is second to none. We talk about everything, and still at seventeen she seeks my advice own personal matters.

[/quote]

I have raised five children, spanked each one in the manner described by Push, and have a relationship with each one of them that is “second to none.” They are not emotionally scarred, driven by violence, or adversely affected by their upbringing.

Conversely, I was raised by a father who never disciplined me when he should have. While my friends thought that he was so cool, I questioned whether he cared about me or not.

jpb

63

I have never hit my son.
He’s now 16, a brilliant musician, college-prep student, and a quiet and mannerly individual. We’ve been close since his first day on this earth because of the bond I strove for since then. As for discipline: he’s always avoided making me angry because he fears disappointing me. That’s more powerful than a slap or a spanking.

64

[quote]Shaved wrote:
Wrong.

You don’t have to actually raise kids to know whether striking a child is right, or wrong. Just because you gave up other, less violent alternatives doesn’t make you King Shit on the subject.[/quote]

I think the disagreement here stems from you seeing “striking a child” as being wrong all the time. There are some situations, very rare ones, where striking the child can be the exactly right thing to do. If you have a three year old who’s “pitching a fit” (screaming, biting, clawing, etc. Think of a small Tasmanian Devil) at everything and every one around, you’ll have a tough time engaging him in reasonable discourse and witty debate.

There are also the rare times when a kid stubbornly refuses to change a behavior and you have to escalate the reprimands. If you refuse to spank, you have one less “last resort” than a parent who does; one less tool in your toolbox.

Now, you might never have to resort to it; not all kids are the same. But if you categorically refuse to, you might find yourself in a situation where a spanking would’ve saved a lot of time and grief to everyone involved.

65

[quote]streamline wrote:
My reward is a relationship that is second to none. We talk about everything, and still at seventeen she seeks my advice own personal matters.

[/quote]

The hubris in that statement knocks me on my ear. I don’t doubt there are a number of us here that have excellent relationships with our teens. It’s interesting how you have set yourself at the pinnacle. I find that to be arrogant. Perhaps a bit of humility and introspection is in order.

I have excellent relationships with both my daughters. However, I would never announce mine as better than someone elses. It isn’t a contest.

You are free to parent your children in the manner you see best. Don’t presume to denigrate and offer unsolicited advice to other parents.

66

I have raised three children into adults. I’ve done plenty of things wrong. I’ve lost my temper, I’ve slapped them when I was angry, I’ve yelled terrible things and I’ve made them cry.

But somehow, they all grew up and made me so proud of them, and what they have accomplished. In spite of all my wrongs, they turned out right.

So, does a parent deserve credit or blame for the way their children turn out? I think they deserve both.

67

[quote]ouroboro_s wrote:
streamline wrote:
My reward is a relationship that is second to none. We talk about everything, and still at seventeen she seeks my advice own personal matters.

The hubris in that statement knocks me on my ear. I don’t doubt there are a number of us here that have excellent relationships with our teens. It’s interesting how you have set yourself at the pinnacle. I find that to be arrogant. Perhaps a bit of humility and introspection is in order.

I have excellent relationships with both my daughters. However, I would never announce mine as better than someone elses. It isn’t a contest.

You are free to parent your children in the manner you see best. Don’t presume to denigrate and offer unsolicited advice to other parents.[/quote]

What you call arrogant is just the cream raising to the top. If you find the need to compare me to you. Then it is you who lacks confiction on your choices.

I raised my child without hitting her. She turned out awesome. Whether that was because of me and the way I raised her. Is as much a guess for me as it is for you. The big difference is I NEVER hit my child, you hit yours so live with it!

68

[quote]streamline wrote:
ouroboro_s wrote:
streamline wrote:
My reward is a relationship that is second to none. We talk about everything, and still at seventeen she seeks my advice own personal matters.

The hubris in that statement knocks me on my ear. I don’t doubt there are a number of us here that have excellent relationships with our teens. It’s interesting how you have set yourself at the pinnacle. I find that to be arrogant. Perhaps a bit of humility and introspection is in order.

I have excellent relationships with both my daughters. However, I would never announce mine as better than someone elses. It isn’t a contest.

You are free to parent your children in the manner you see best. Don’t presume to denigrate and offer unsolicited advice to other parents.

What you call arrogant is just the cream raising to the top. If you find the need to compare me to you. Then it is you who lacks confiction on your choices.

I raised my child without hitting her. She turned out awesome. Whether that was because of me and the way I raised her. Is as much a guess for me as it is for you. The big difference is I NEVER hit my child, you hit yours so live with it!

[/quote]

There seems to be an overabundance of people recently posting very self-congratulatory threads in which they not only pat themselves liberally on the back for their choices but, at the same time decry the choices made by others.

The initial post by yourself is self laudatory and decries alternative parenting methods. Therefore, it was you who compared your own stellar choices to any and all who have made alternative choices.

I find that very insecure and approval seeking. Those of us who don’t seek approval, didn’t start a thread to that effect.

I have no doubt your daughter is lovely and your parenting style works well for you. Alternatively, my daughters are also amazing and my style works well for me.

It is the height of arrogance to state your choices are better than others.

69

[quote]ouroboro_s wrote:

It is the height of arrogance to state your choices are better than others. [/quote]

It is the height of ignorance to insult anyone’s parenting skills.

70

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
GhorigTheBeefy wrote:
Streamline go fuck yourself man. FFS beat your children.

My parents never hit me I got the friggin 2-6 hour disappointment lecture that was a bajillion times worse. I wish my parents had just hit me so it would of been done with and I could of gone out to play. Trust me you don’t want to sit down in the chair in the middle of the kitchen all Family Matters style. It sucks sooooooo bad.

I used to get BOTH. Mom would give the guilt-down and Dad would lay the smack down. This was highly effective and cut my misbehaving by 78.439%.

Fact is, none of you know what the fuck you’re talking about, and neither do I. Raising kids is a crap shoot, and there is a 100% chance that something you’re doing is going to buy some psychotherapist a new Mercedes when little Johnny or Jane is old enough to realize how fucked up you made them.[/quote]

Best. Post.

71

It seems that several of you raving against corporal punishment were BEATEN as children, not punished.

Those are totally different entities…keep some perspective.

72

[quote]pookie wrote:

But if you categorically refuse to, you might find yourself in a situation where a spanking would’ve saved a lot of time and grief to everyone involved.
[/quote]

This is, I think, the main reason why parents hit their kids. You hit the nail on the head. I believe a parent should put their child before everyone else. Parents should NEVER think “I’m sorry Billy, but you are causing people grief, and I want to save myself some time, so I’m going to hit you.” Other people can quite frankly kiss my ass in that situation.

Who knows, maybe I’ll have kids and spank them on a regular basis, but I’ll know full well that there are other alternatives. A large person threatening violence on a small person is most definitely an effective way to make them behave the way you want, and this is one of the first lessons you will be teaching them.

74

I guess with my kid I am fairly lucky. All I have to do is raise my voice and tears stream down her face. She is kinda sensitive when dad gets pissed about stuff. I have only hit her when she was just starting to walk and not able to talk to me and had her hand into everything single thing. Specially electrical outlets. That is when a minor tap on the hands was in order. Time outs work for her to drive home a point but when I see they don’t work I will threaten and back it up but it never comes to it.

Example Raised voice harsh mean face. “If you ever do that again I am going to smack your ass so hard you will not be able to sit!” “Go sit in the corner!”. Then when she calms down I ask her what she did wrong and ask her what she is going to do to not get in trouble again. I wait for I am sorry. Big hugs and kiss then its all forgotten.

75

[quote]ouroboro_s wrote:
streamline wrote:
ouroboro_s wrote:
streamline wrote:
My reward is a relationship that is second to none. We talk about everything, and still at seventeen she seeks my advice own personal matters.

The hubris in that statement knocks me on my ear. I don’t doubt there are a number of us here that have excellent relationships with our teens. It’s interesting how you have set yourself at the pinnacle. I find that to be arrogant. Perhaps a bit of humility and introspection is in order.

I have excellent relationships with both my daughters. However, I would never announce mine as better than someone elses. It isn’t a contest.

You are free to parent your children in the manner you see best. Don’t presume to denigrate and offer unsolicited advice to other parents.

What you call arrogant is just the cream raising to the top. If you find the need to compare me to you. Then it is you who lacks confiction on your choices.

I raised my child without hitting her. She turned out awesome. Whether that was because of me and the way I raised her. Is as much a guess for me as it is for you. The big difference is I NEVER hit my child, you hit yours so live with it!

There seems to be an overabundance of people recently posting very self-congratulatory threads in which they not only pat themselves liberally on the back for their choices but, at the same time decry the choices made by others.

The initial post by yourself is self laudatory and decries alternative parenting methods. Therefore, it was you who compared your own stellar choices to any and all who have made alternative choices.

I find that very insecure and approval seeking. Those of us who don’t seek approval, didn’t start a thread to that effect.

I have no doubt your daughter is lovely and your parenting style works well for you. Alternatively, my daughters are also amazing and my style works well for me.

It is the height of arrogance to state your choices are better than others. [/quote]

Good post.

jpb

76

[quote]Shaved wrote:
pookie wrote:

But if you categorically refuse to, you might find yourself in a situation where a spanking would’ve saved a lot of time and grief to everyone involved.

This is, I think, the main reason why parents hit their kids. You hit the nail on the head. I believe a parent should put their child before everyone else. Parents should NEVER think “I’m sorry Billy, but you are causing people grief, and I want to save myself some time, so I’m going to hit you.” Other people can quite frankly kiss my ass in that situation.

Who knows, maybe I’ll have kids and spank them on a regular basis, but I’ll know full well that there are other alternatives. A large person threatening violence on a small person is most definitely an effective way to make them behave the way you want, and this is one of the first lessons you will be teaching them.
[/quote]

You missed the point entirely. “Other people” have nothing to do with it; nor is spanking done on a regular basis.

Spanking is a last resort, and if a parent prefers not to use it, that’s fine by me.

But don’t go and try to condemn all parents who do spank as being bad parents or by lumping them with child abusers.

78

I’ve talked about this with friends- both those who have grown up with strict parenting (and physical punishment) and those who haven’t. I don’t really see much of a difference.

I don’t think I will ever hit my kids but they will know that if they do something bad enough I will.

79

I’ve talked about this with friends- both those who have grown up with strict parenting (and physical punishment) and those who haven’t. I don’t really see much of a difference.

I don’t think I will ever hit my kids but they will know that if they do something bad enough I will.

80

[quote]pookie wrote:
Shaved wrote:
pookie wrote:

You missed the point entirely. “Other people” have nothing to do with it; nor is spanking done on a regular basis.

Spanking is a last resort, and if a parent prefers not to use it, that’s fine by me.

But don’t go and try to condemn all parents who do spank as being bad parents or by lumping them with child abusers.
[/quote]

After reading your post again I see that I did miss the point. You mentioned “to everyone involved” and I took it to mean other people near you at the time.

I’m not trying to lump you, or anyone else who has spanked their kids on the ass a few times with child abusers. If it seemed that way, I didn’t mean to.