Paul Ryan-Romney VP

[ZEB]

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

The American voting public can’t be this blind, can they? Even if the Romney/Ryan plan sucks, at least they have a fucking plan. Not pure deflection and theater.

[/quote]

This. Ryan actually tries to do SOMETHING. The video I posted earlier of Ryan and Timmie talking about the Obama/Paul plans demonstrates as much. Timmie has to admit that their ‘plan’ is a kick-the-can-down-the-road a few years ‘plan.’ That they don’t have a real plan, they just know they don’t like Ryan’s.[/quote]

And trying to do something helps him get elected how?

Are you forgetting that in 08 we elected a man who did virtually nothing of note prior to becoming President?

When you step out in favor of something you are now vulnerable to attack. And that is what this game is all about.

Or didn’t you notice that Obama is leading in the polls after heading up the worst (long-term) economy since the great depression. And how is he doing this?

Is it by unveiling a brand new economic plan with lots of bells and whistles?

Nooooo…it’s by calling Romney an evil rich murderer.

Oh my it’s so distasteful, so utterly useless, but it WORKS!

Sadly Romney doesn’t understand that either.

[pittbulll]

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:<<< I feel like the media framed her so negative that 5th grader could have beaten her in the eye of the general public.[/quote]For an absolute amateur in that arena? I thought she did fine though I’ve never been much of a fan of hers. Biden is no tremor inducing formidable foe anyway. Here’s a preview of this season’s vice presidential debate.
[/quote]

Did no one see Palin Couric interview ?[/quote]

A better question would be, “did anyone see the unedited version of the Palin Couric interview?”[/quote]

What media is not edited ?

[ZEB]

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
ZEB wrote:Politics and especially debates are all about image more than facts and figures.
How bout we try n change that now? Good a time as any. No? We don’t want to take a stab at elevating public political prowess a bit? Just keep catering to the lowest hanging fruit until Bart Simpson is elected president? I understand your point and position. It’s very pragmatic. I just don’t see it as as having any long term viability.
[/quote]

It doesn’t really matter what you or I think does it? We can stand out in the rain and claim that it’s a nice sunny dry day…so what? That’s about how much power you have over how someone reacts to the events around them.

People are people and you and I are not going to change how they react to things it’s hard wired.

For example, a black person looks at Obama and feels pride that someone of their race is now President (and I can understand that). It doesn’t matter that they’re worse off. They don’t know it and they don’t care to know it.

Politics has always been about emotion over facts and figures. The Ryan pick is proof positive that the Romney people are tone deaf politically. He evokes no positive emotion from anyone. He could be replaced by a tape recorder that sites facts and figures. He wins no one to the Romney side that wasn’t already there.

Who would have been better…almost ANYONE!

[ZEB]

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

ZEB wrote:<<< When they get in the voting booth they’re going to do what they’ve done since the dawning of the media age in 1960 choose a man with the most charisma. >>>[/quote]If they were asking me, which of course they aren’t, I’d use that as a campaign weapon. Maybe even a slogan. “FINALLY!! Some substance over style”. Do you want more slick talk Ame.

That won’t work any better than Romney asking Obama to get his campaign out of the gutter. Americans are famous for claiming that they hate negative politics. Yet, they drink it in like a thirsty man who has been walking in the desert. That’s why Obama leads Romney by about 8 points right now. 40 days of unanswered negative attacks by Obama has worked! And when they do it to Ryan it will work. Romney is living in never never land if he thinks that the electorate is actually ready to hear the truth. In fact I’m shocked at his naivete. And equally impressed with the scum running Obama’s campaign. Say what you will about them, they DO understand the electorate.

Going the path of claiming that “we now have substance” over “style” is a loser’s journey. Because most people vote from emotion NOT facts and figures. As I said Paul Ryan might not be the worst pick but he has to be very close to it. [/quote]Assuming all this is true, which I’m not denying, then what do you think it says for our future?
[/quote]

Oh man Tirib the writing has been on the wall for a long time regarding our future. We don’t want to discuss that right now.

[ZEB]

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

Going the path of claiming that “we now have substance” over “style” is a loser’s journey. Because most people vote from emotion NOT facts and figures. As I said Paul Ryan might not be the worst pick but he has to be very close to it. [/quote]

Then you got behind the wrong candidate. Romney was never going to present an emotional campaign against Obama. Him going that route would be like that department store manager who unveils his new ‘team-spirit’ morning meeting cheer to an eye-rolling staff. Corny.

[/quote]

I’m not looking for an “emotional campaign” I am looking for a candidate who had enough charisma to come close to Obama. And someone who didn’t totally tick off independents. I get it you hate Romney and I’m not going to reargue the Santorum vs Romney debate that we had over and over again. But rest assured had Santorum been the nominee Obama would be leading by 16 to 18 points by now.

Don’t get me wrong though Romney is blowing it in a big, big way currently. Will it change? I can only pray that it does.

[ZEB]

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:<<< I feel like the media framed her so negative that 5th grader could have beaten her in the eye of the general public.[/quote]For an absolute amateur in that arena? I thought she did fine though I’ve never been much of a fan of hers. Biden is no tremor inducing formidable foe anyway. Here’s a preview of this season’s vice presidential debate.
[/quote]

Did no one see Palin Couric interview ?[/quote]

A better question would be, “did anyone see the unedited version of the Palin Couric interview?”[/quote]

What media is not edited ?
[/quote]

RIGHT!

And what party does Couric (and most of the media) love?

[Sloth]

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

The American voting public can’t be this blind, can they? Even if the Romney/Ryan plan sucks, at least they have a fucking plan. Not pure deflection and theater.

[/quote]

This. Ryan actually tries to do SOMETHING. The video I posted earlier of Ryan and Timmie talking about the Obama/Paul plans demonstrates as much. Timmie has to admit that their ‘plan’ is a kick-the-can-down-the-road a few years ‘plan.’ That they don’t have a real plan, they just know they don’t like Ryan’s.[/quote]

And trying to do something helps him get elected how?

Are you forgetting that in 08 we elected a man who did virtually nothing of note prior to becoming President?

When you step out in favor of something you are now vulnerable to attack. And that is what this game is all about.

Or didn’t you notice that Obama is leading in the polls after heading up the worst (long-term) economy since the great depression. And how is he doing this?

Is it by unveiling a brand new economic plan with lots of bells and whistles?

Nooooo…it’s by calling Romney an evil rich murderer.

Oh my it’s so distasteful, so utterly useless, but it WORKS!

Sadly Romney doesn’t understand that either.[/quote]

And you’re surprised? Romney’s stooges felt free to run that kind of campaign against opponents they could grossly outspend. That was never going to be to work with Obama. In a tit-for-tat against Obama he has no chance. Obama will come up smelling like roses, while Romney will come off as sleazy.

He was always going to be the humorless, privileged, non-tax paying, meanie. He’s not going to out negative Obama’s team, nor out personality him. Romney, personality? Likeable, yet spirited? Face it, America likes Obama the person. Yes, even if they’re no longer as certain about him as a President. Romney was never going to be likeable. He’s the corporate big-cheese, laying folks off, while using every tax trick in the book to save every penny of his multi-million dollar wealth.

Romney was never going to send a thrill down anyone’s leg. He wasn’t going to ever fire up anyone. His best bet now is to convince the people that they don’t need beautiful oration (as tears well up in the eyes of a captivated audience). That what they need, what their kids and grand kids need, is a country that hasn’t been ruined by those facts and figures.

The only way a Republican wins this is by selling those facts and figures. By drawing attention to the enormity of the entitlement problem.

[Tiribulus]

[quote]ZEB wrote:<<< Oh man Tirib the writing has been on the wall for a long time regarding our future. We don’t want to discuss that right now.[/quote]And you think the right politicians will make a difference in this?

[Neuromancer]

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:<<< I didn’t say she lost because Biden was more likeable. But she did lose. >>>[/quote]Not by much. Biden is no cerebral powerhouse nor an especially capable debater. Ryan will beat him down while doing a crossword puzzle without looking up. [quote]ZEB wrote:<<< Politics and especially debates are all about image more than facts and figures. [/quote]How bout we try n change that now? Good a time as any. No? We don’t want to take a stab at elevating public political prowess a bit? Just keep catering to the lowest hanging fruit until Bart Simpson is elected president? I understand your point and position. It’s very pragmatic. I just don’t see it as as having any long term viability.
[/quote]

Amen to elevating standards of pols. It’s a worldwide issue in democracies…but how?

Perhaps we are not meant to be ruled by democratic means in the long term. Not as it exists now, anyhow.

[Mufasa]

Wait, guys…

Romney DOES have a huge War Chest (not including the SuperPacs supporting him); strong Conservative voters; and still may benefit from a strong boost from the upcoming Convention.

He can win.

Mufasa

[Sloth]

I mean, seriously, what negative stuff could Romney even use besides facts and figures? Who Obama associated, or associates, with? Failed already. His academic transcripts not being public? Failed already. Wright? Failed. Failed, failed, failed. Completely untouchable on the more personal side. Romney’s taxes bother people. Obama’s transcripts doesn’t. Get over that kind of stuff. We can’t win on likeability. It’s beat him on the facts and figures, by running circles around him with 'em, or take your ball and go home.

[ZEB]

[quote]Sloth wrote:

The only way a Republican wins this is by selling those facts and figures. By drawing attention to the enormity of the entitlement problem.
[/quote]

Well, I certainly hope that you’re right Sloth. But I don’t have a very good feeling that suddenly the electorate is going to actually care about the math. And don’t forget that about 100 million of them are currently sucking on the government tit.

[ZEB]

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:<<< Oh man Tirib the writing has been on the wall for a long time regarding our future. We don’t want to discuss that right now.[/quote]And you think the right politicians will make a difference in this?
[/quote]

Only the people will be able to change the course of this giant tidal wave that is coming our way. But I highly doubt that this will happen. Most people wake up when it’s too late.

[countingbeans]

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:<<< Oh man Tirib the writing has been on the wall for a long time regarding our future. We don’t want to discuss that right now.[/quote]And you think the right politicians will make a difference in this?
[/quote]

I don’t think so. You could put the right people there, and without the population educated and informed, they will pick the fucknut with the better smile.

It starts and ends with us, the people. We have failed just as much as we like to point the finger at congress failing, we have as well.

[pittbulll]

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:<<< I feel like the media framed her so negative that 5th grader could have beaten her in the eye of the general public.[/quote]For an absolute amateur in that arena? I thought she did fine though I’ve never been much of a fan of hers. Biden is no tremor inducing formidable foe anyway. Here’s a preview of this season’s vice presidential debate.
[/quote]

Did no one see Palin Couric interview ?[/quote]

A better question would be, “did anyone see the unedited version of the Palin Couric interview?”[/quote]

What media is not edited ?
[/quote]

RIGHT!

And what party does Couric (and most of the media) love?

[/quote]

Oh I forgot , they ewre not FAUX news

[ZEB]

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Wait, guys…

Romney DOES have a huge War Chest (not including the SuperPacs supporting him); strong Conservative voters; and still may benefit from a strong boost from the upcoming Convention.

He can win.

Mufasa[/quote]

Sure he can win I never said otherwise. But as for those SuperPacs, where were they over the past 45 days when Obama and his thugs were putting the boots to Mitt Romney’s reputation? Where was all that money then?

Romney has the following left:

1. Strong convention

2. Strong debate performance (I see this as Romney’s last and best hope)

3. Obama’s errors “you didn’t build that…bla bla”

Keep in mind that Obama has the same advantages. And the democratic convention is after the republican one. Hence, they will be able to counter anything that the republican convention did. Romney can make error’s as well.

I gave Romney a slightly less than 50/50 chance of beating Obama before the election began. It now falls to about a 40% chance after the negative ads were not answered and the Ryan pick. But yes, he can still win. Anything can happen in Presidential politics. And the incumbent while having the advantage also can make the wrong call on something of national significance which can change the complexion of the race over night.

[MaximusB]

It will get better with the addition of Ryan. He is well spoken, young, articulate, and engaging.

Romney-Ryan need to get after “dat ass” with Obama. Stop being this sponge to Obama attacks and get after Obama on the economy.

It can be done, the Liberal War machine is being dismantled in California, I have to believe it can be done on a national level to some degree.

Hammer the facts, hold Obama accountable, he promised the farm to everyone, we got nothing but manure.

[ZEB]

[quote]Sloth wrote:
I mean, seriously, what negative stuff could Romney even use besides facts and figures? Who Obama associated, or associates, with? Failed already. His academic transcripts not being public? Failed already. Wright? Failed. Failed, failed, failed. Completely untouchable on the more personal side. Romney’s taxes bother people. Obama’s transcripts doesn’t. Get over that kind of stuff. We can’t win on likeability. It’s beat him on the facts and figures, by running circles around him with 'em, or take your ball and go home.[/quote]

They should have pounded those things harder in 08 but that’s another story. I agree he is immune to those things now that he is President.

Romney needs to run ads that speak to the darkness that Obama has brought over this nation in the form of unemployment being over 8% for 42 months straight. The ads need to evoke emotion, filled with real people who are hurting. He needs to ask the question that Ronald Reagan asked in 1980, “are you better off now than you were four years ago?”

But I have seen none of this …yet.

These are the types of negative ads that will work against Obama.

Standing up and reading a Paul Ryan budget plan will only put people to sleep.

[ZEB]

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:<<< I feel like the media framed her so negative that 5th grader could have beaten her in the eye of the general public.[/quote]For an absolute amateur in that arena? I thought she did fine though I’ve never been much of a fan of hers. Biden is no tremor inducing formidable foe anyway. Here’s a preview of this season’s vice presidential debate.
[/quote]

Did no one see Palin Couric interview ?[/quote]

A better question would be, “did anyone see the unedited version of the Palin Couric interview?”[/quote]

What media is not edited ?
[/quote]

RIGHT!

And what party does Couric (and most of the media) love?

[/quote]

Oh I forgot , they ewre not FAUX news [/quote]

Oh you mean FOX news? I forget sometimes who I’m talking to.

FOX news is every bit in the can for the republican’s as the rest of the media is for the democrats. See, I can admit that because it happens to be the truth.

Regardless the Couric interview was not legitimate. It was a slice and dice job planned and executed quite well. For this not to have happened Palin would have had to sit down and answer perfectly without even a throat clear every question that liberal Couric asked.
No one can do that and I wonder how many times the left wing media has made Obama look good. Of course we’ll never know other than the soft ball questions that they ask him. We’ll never know…

[ZEB]

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
It will get better with the addition of Ryan. He is well spoken, young, articulate, and engaging.

Romney-Ryan need to get after “dat ass” with Obama. Stop being this sponge to Obama attacks and get after Obama on the economy.

It can be done, the Liberal War machine is being dismantled in California, I have to believe it can be done on a national level to some degree.

Hammer the facts, hold Obama accountable, he promised the farm to everyone, we got nothing but manure. [/quote]

I’m curious how is the liberal war machine being dimantled in California?