Zeb- How come you dislike Catholicism? I’m Catholic and really don’t find any huge differences between it and Christianity. All religions have one main idea with subtle differences. Anyways, what’s your beef?
[quote]stefan128 wrote:Zeb- How come you dislike Catholicism? I’m Catholic and really don’t find any huge differences between it and Christianity. All religions have one main idea with subtle differences. Anyways, what’s your beef? [/quote]It’s me who dislikes Christianity. ZEB like it just fine. This is not the thread for it though for sure.
A friendly reminder - this thread is about Paul Ryan, not about how epically awesome or epically dreadful Catholicism is. Take it somewhere, please and thanks in advance.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]stefan128 wrote:Zeb- How come you dislike Catholicism? I’m Catholic and really don’t find any huge differences between it and Christianity. All religions have one main idea with subtle differences. Anyways, what’s your beef? [/quote]It’s me who dislikes Christianity. ZEB like it just fine. This is not the thread for it though for sure.
[/quote]
My mistake, carry on.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
And hey, you may already be seeing some good news.
http://www.purplestrategies.com/wp-content/uploads/PurplePoll_Aug15_Final.pdf[/quote]
I truly loved reading that![/quote]
With me giving you a hard time lately (that’s the presidential political season for ya), I hope I at least brightened your day. Can they build on these numbers? I actually believe that if Romney keeps any ‘negativity’ numbers related (employment, budget), Obama’s favorables are going to start taking a hit. The ‘Romney is a murderer’ thing didn’t go over very well. Biden’s chains gaffe wasn’t helpful. I think they might be over-reaching, putting their own favorables in danger. And I think Romney/Ryan might be onto something with emphasizing that Obama cut 700+ billion from medicare, to pay for another program. Something Romney/Ryan intend to reverse. [/quote]
Hey, I enjoy the give and take my friend. And any time you can post a positive link regarding the Romney/Ryan ticket I’d love to read it, there is certainly enough negative information flowing. In fact, there is so much data available that I cannot possibly read it all each day and continue to run my business. I am very fond of polling at this point in the game as I think it does have much meaning especially if I know how the questions were asked.
Let’s us all hope that Ryan turns out to be a great VP pick. I’m actually surprised that the Obama smear machine has not done more to tarnish Ryan than they have. I assumed by now that they would have most of the nation believing that he is Hitler’s incarnate. Maybe they’re scared to go too negative on him like they did Romney. They are being looked at now as over reaching as you say. That is a good thing if they are rattled.
Did you notice the pro Romney/Ryan ads have picked up across the nation? They’re starting to spend their war chest. I hope they spend enough in Florida and Ohio to make a difference. By the way they are virtually tied in both of those states with the Obama/Biden ticket. That is indeed certainly good news.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
And hey, you may already be seeing some good news.
http://www.purplestrategies.com/wp-content/uploads/PurplePoll_Aug15_Final.pdf[/quote]
I truly loved reading that![/quote]
With me giving you a hard time lately (that’s the presidential political season for ya), I hope I at least brightened your day. Can they build on these numbers? I actually believe that if Romney keeps any ‘negativity’ numbers related (employment, budget), Obama’s favorables are going to start taking a hit. The ‘Romney is a murderer’ thing didn’t go over very well. Biden’s chains gaffe wasn’t helpful. I think they might be over-reaching, putting their own favorables in danger. And I think Romney/Ryan might be onto something with emphasizing that Obama cut 700+ billion from medicare, to pay for another program. Something Romney/Ryan intend to reverse. [/quote]
Yep, there’s blood in the water over jobs, budget, and economics. Obama could very well be the “well, he’s a likeable fella, but yeah someone else needs a shot at the Presidency” guy. And if Obama’s team stays nasty, while Romney/Ryan hit those issues above, he might not even be likeable at the end of this.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
I am very fond of polling at this point in the game as I think it does have much meaning especially if I know how the questions were asked.[/quote]
Speaking of polling, the most recent Gallup shows the president at ~60% disapproval on deficit, job creation, and economic matters:
These are, coincidentally, the the most important issues on the voters’ minds.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Let’s us all hope that Ryan turns out to be a great VP pick. I’m actually surprised that the Obama smear machine has not done more to tarnish Ryan than they have. I assumed by now that they would have most of the nation believing that he is Hitler’s incarnate. Maybe they’re scared to go too negative on him like they did Romney. They are being looked at now as over reaching as you say. That is a good thing if they are rattled.
[/quote]
I’ve seen them try to hit Ryan over medicare, only to be slammed with the fact that Romney/Ryan would actually reinstate the $700 billion Obama carved out of medicare to pay for Obamacare (without having done a damn thing to reform medicare for solvency). Brilliant! I could see them (the Obama folks) becoming more and more reluctant to try the MediScare tactics, when it it only serves as a perfect opportunity to remind folks what Obama did.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
I am very fond of polling at this point in the game as I think it does have much meaning especially if I know how the questions were asked.[/quote]
Speaking of polling, the most recent Gallup shows the president at ~60% disapproval on deficit, job creation, and economic matters:
These are, coincidentally, the the most important issues on the voters’ minds.[/quote]
Even after looking at the poll that you posted and the poll Sloth posted above, I don’t think that the voters are quite ready to hold Obama responsible for the economy. There is enough buzz that this is a world wide recession and it is not Obama’s fault. And of course, as silly as it sounds, there’s still the “it’s Bush’s fault” grumble from some.
But as the days wear on and Romney/Ryan stay on Obama about the economy, specifically…
-
Unemployment
-
The national debt
-
Gas prices
The good will that Obama has (for some unknown reason) with the voters will erode!
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Even after looking at the poll that you posted and the poll Sloth posted above, I don’t think that the voters are quite ready to hold Obama responsible for the economy. There is enough buzz that this is a world wide recession and it is not Obama’s fault. And of course, as silly as it sounds, there’s still the “it’s Bush’s fault” grumble from some.[/quote]
Even controlling for that, I think Obama’s problem is that he doesn’t have a plan in his second term to deal with these. Even if voters give him somewhat of a pass (and I don’t think they necessarily will, they never do on economic matters, because “it’s the economy, stupid”), they expect him to comeup with a coherent plan to escape these problems.
Obama doesn’t have one. And he won’t come up with one by the election.
Moreover, deficit reduction is important to a lot of people, and Obama has no ability to lead on this issue - he forfeited it with the passage of ObamaCare. He has nowhere to go on this topic, and voters place it is a high priority.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Let’s us all hope that Ryan turns out to be a great VP pick. I’m actually surprised that the Obama smear machine has not done more to tarnish Ryan than they have. I assumed by now that they would have most of the nation believing that he is Hitler’s incarnate. Maybe they’re scared to go too negative on him like they did Romney. They are being looked at now as over reaching as you say. That is a good thing if they are rattled.
[/quote]
I’ve seen them try to hit Ryan over medicare, only to be slammed with the fact that Romney/Ryan would actually reinstate the $700 billion Obama carved out of medicare to pay for Obamacare (without having done a damn thing to reform medicare for solvency). Brilliant! I could see them (the Obama folks) becoming more and more reluctant to try the MediScare tactics, when it it only serves as a perfect opportunity to remind folks what Obama did.[/quote]
As long as they continue to articulate that argument on a regular basis I think you’re right Sloth. They’re in good shape on that issue barring any major media intervention. And that was no doubt their plan of attack against Ryan. In fact, don’t they try to scare the old people just about every election?
What would the democrats campaign be about if they couldn’t use such tactics?
What I find interesting is that Obama has not once bragged about his national health care plan (which is still unpopular by about 60%). And that is supposed to be the crowning achievement of his first term. After all, he did this when he had both houses of Congress democrat. While he could have been working on the economy he was buying votes for the health care plan which may very well end up costing him the election.
Really, can either you or TB name one economic accomplishment of the the Obama Presidency?
Even foreign policy wise, he can brag about killing Bin Laden which was a great thing. But what else has the man done that he can actually run on?
And that’s why they have to continue to smear Romney/Ryan.
They have nothing else!
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Even if voters give him somewhat of a pass (and I don’t think they necessarily will, they never do on economic matters, because “it’s the economy, stupid”), they expect him to comeup with a coherent plan to escape these problems.[/quote]
And that is my biggest fear regarding this election. That Obama, unlike every other President before him, gets a pass on the econmy.
This could happen for a variety of reasons as I sated in my prior post. I don’t think it will happen, but it could.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Even after looking at the poll that you posted and the poll Sloth posted above, I don’t think that the voters are quite ready to hold Obama responsible for the economy. There is enough buzz that this is a world wide recession and it is not Obama’s fault. And of course, as silly as it sounds, there’s still the “it’s Bush’s fault” grumble from some.
[/quote]
I feel like the people who are content with excuses and finger pointing rather than leadership and results in the face of great adversity, wouldn’t change their vote to the republican ticket if Santa Claus was running on it.
Just like the people calling for Romney’s returns the loudest, are people that wouldn’t vote for him even if he paid 80% tax.
People saying, and believe that “it’s bush’s fault” is good enough, wouldn’t vote for anyone other than Obama anyway, for any reason.
Anyone not holding their leader responsible for the job they wanted and accepted, is a lost cause vote anyway.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Even after looking at the poll that you posted and the poll Sloth posted above, I don’t think that the voters are quite ready to hold Obama responsible for the economy. There is enough buzz that this is a world wide recession and it is not Obama’s fault. And of course, as silly as it sounds, there’s still the “it’s Bush’s fault” grumble from some.
[/quote]
I feel like the people who are content with excuses and finger pointing rather than leadership and results in the face of great adversity, wouldn’t change their vote to the republican ticket if Santa Claus was running on it.
Just like the people calling for Romney’s returns the loudest, are people that wouldn’t vote for him even if he paid 80% tax.
People saying, and believe that “it’s bush’s fault” is good enough, wouldn’t vote for anyone other than Obama anyway, for any reason.
Anyone not holding their leader responsible for the job they wanted and accepted, is a lost cause vote anyway. [/quote]
The modern political model dictates that about one third of the population would vote for the republican no matter what and about the same number would vote for the democrat regardless of how bad he is.
Both parties fight for the middle ground. And (not to beat a dead horse as I do that all too often), that is one of the reasons I was concerned about the Ryan pick. He has great appeal on the right but can he pull the independents? From what I’ve read in the polling data posted on this thread he seems to be impressing many of the independents to my surprise. Not because of his conservatism but because of his hands on knowledge of the economy and his courage for stepping up and proposing what is now called “the Ryan budget.” Hopefully the independent voters will stay enthused about Ryan because of this issue. However, if the Obama smear machine goes to work on him that may tear some support away. And as sloth has pointed out Ryan has been able to turn these attacks back on Obama and aptly point out that it is his own health plan that is robbing ss.
I’d call that political Jiu-Jitsu!
[quote]ZEB wrote:<<< And as sloth has pointed out Ryan has been able to turn these attacks back on Obama and aptly point out that it is his own health plan that is robbing ss.
I’d call that political Jiu-Jitsu![/quote]Ryan is tough, but fairly unabrasive to the convictionless wimps… errr I mean balanced people in the middle. He’s confident and convincing to people who don’t know what they believe. Like Obama was in 08. And like every candidate who wins always is to them.
Wow, I have to admit, I’m liking the strategy of Romney/Ryan regarding Medicare. It’s going to be a hell of a coup if they not only take away the medicare issue, but end up reversing the usual roles. Obama the victim of MediScare?! If this sticks…
By the way, how painfully, excruciatingly, dumb is this? Have you ever seen someone say or do something so boneheaded, that while you’re on one hand completely outraged at said person, you sort of feel the embarrassment THEY should be feeling? Like an empathetic cringe? Yeah, I felt that here.
Edit: Funny thing is, I almost made a crack on my previous post about how Romeny’s use of a WHITE-board would be made out to be racist coding.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
By the way, how painfully, excruciatingly, dumb is this? Have you ever seen someone say or do something so boneheaded, that while you’re on one hand completely outraged at said person, you sort of feel the embarrassment THEY should be feeling? Like an empathetic cringe? Yeah, I felt that here.
Edit: Funny thing is, I almost made a crack on my previous post about how Romeny’s use of a WHITE-board would be made out to be racist coding.[/quote]That was absolutely painful to watch. SE Cupp is very smart btw and very capably handled that situation…
[quote]Sloth wrote:
By the way, how painfully, excruciatingly, dumb is this? Have you ever seen someone say or do something so boneheaded, that while you’re on one hand completely outraged at said person, you sort of feel the embarrassment THEY should be feeling? Like an empathetic cringe? Yeah, I felt that here.
Edit: Funny thing is, I almost made a crack on my previous post about how Romeny’s use of a WHITE-board would be made out to be racist coding.[/quote]
Thank god for the red heads voice, otherwise I would hate that I spent 3 mins of my life watching that douche.
kinda reminds me of this. Except this dude uses actual historic events, not made up bullshit.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
By the way, how painfully, excruciatingly, dumb is this? Have you ever seen someone say or do something so boneheaded, that while you’re on one hand completely outraged at said person, you sort of feel the embarrassment THEY should be feeling? Like an empathetic cringe? Yeah, I felt that here.
Edit: Funny thing is, I almost made a crack on my previous post about how Romeny’s use of a WHITE-board would be made out to be racist coding.[/quote]
This is why I can no longer stomach political punditry. How far down their own little rabbit hole must someone go to be able to say something in one moment, then deny that they said it in the next, all while being video taped for a nationally broadcast television show?