doogie, thing is he wasn’t there protecting your children. If anything, the war will make life more dangerous for your children in the future. Tillman was there to support the economic greed of the gov’t, unknowingly.
Loopfitt, I do not know if you are writing from the US, but if it is the case… your logic, applied to all previous conflicts, would be incompatible with the current American lifestyle. Warring outside the USA hasn`t stopped the US from being the most powerful economy in the world.
If someone had spoken like you in the Vietnam era, how dumb would he look now?
Did we need to go into Afghanistan after 9/11? Given the Taliban’s apparent support of terrorism, that particular campaign was probably necessary if only for the fact that they would have done nothing to bring the terroists to justice. Its apparent that a lot of the people involved have been found and dealt with so I guess its been moderately effective; maybe even highly effective since the terror network is probably required to pull off anything else like 9/11. Without it, Bin Laden is probably just another guy out in the desert.
Was Iraq necessary? Probably not. Its pretty clear now there was never any evidence of involvement with terrorism or the ability to deliver WMD. Those were the reasons cited; the evidence was non-existant then as it is now. There were probably other reasons for actually going there. Some were probably personal. In that respect I don’t feel someone should be using a nation’s army to settle personal scores, or act as an emmisary of God. Our administration is supposed to be an emmisary of the people, not of God. Its hard to say what is going to happen in Iraq; it almost seems now like a lightweight Vietnam. The violence seems to be escalating after the war. If the government is by the people, for the people, the government shouldn’t be sugar coating the costs of their decisions that are supposed to be in the best interests of the people of this country. Yes, its true, there are quite a few flag-covered coffins arriving in this country every day.
As far as the statement about randomly bombing a city in response to a terrorist attack, you assume that all arab people are terrorists. In reality, 99.9% of the people in these countries have families, friends, jobs, and a “normal life”. Terrorists will always find some way around the system to assert their political beliefs; this isn’t necessarily representative of everyone living there. If you are shocked and appauled at the amount of anti-American outrage in these countries that you hear about, what about the anti-Arab outrage in this country? If a few hate-mongers entered an Arab neighborhood in this country and killed an Arab man, is it then permissible for a group of Arabs to bomb a random neighborhood? Check out what happens in Israel and Palistine these days. The circle of violence continues because of this type of thinking. It accomplishes nothing.
Who’s to say what is going to happen in this region. I have been surprised by the relatively friendly support of Pakistan and the seeming indifference of other middle eastern nations like Syria and Jordan. At least they aren’t openly hostile. Maybe there will be democracy in Iraq and Afghanistan. That’s a tall order, and clearly that is going to take a long time to stabilize. I would think 10-15 years at the earliest. How many Americans are going to die trying to provide other nations and poeples the “American Dream”; and do they really want it?
In reality, 99.9% of the people in these countries have families, friends, jobs, and a “normal life”.
That’s the whole point! The countries that harbour terrorists are doing nothing to stop them even though they know where they are. If they get some pressure from their own people they will solve the problem.
Every family member that gets killed by American troops in Iraq will spawn a family of anti-americans, and for this reason the deaths of American soldiers at an alarming rate in Iraq wont end for a long long time. I think it was justified to go after the Taliban,but after that they should have just stopped. The only WMD Iraw had were the ones the states gave them years ago, and the biological compounds from those would have expired and been worthless.
The appeasement approach to war does not work. It did not work to control Hitler's Germany. It did not work to control the U.S.S.R. The only thing this type of evil responds to is strength and force. Unfortunately evil does exist in this world. If it was not for great men like Tillman your great country of Peurto Rico might be under a rutless dictator, because if it were not for our great U.S.A. this country would be a fuckin mess. Damn you appeasement asses.
Pretty sure this won’t go over well, but I agree on the sentiment that he isn’t a hero. Yes, he gave up a lot of money and the american dream to go off and fight, but that doesn’t mean any more then the average joe giving up a middle class life with 1.5 kids and a dog to go and fight.
Two, I don’t understand the whole patriotism thing of going over there and fighting. You aren’t protecting the country. He wasn’t pulling a stranger from a fire… If he was doing something like that, then he’d be a hero. But so would everyone else that was out there doing so.
Last of all, or rather restating it, maybe it’s just cause I’m not celebrity crazy, but don’t see how his life being lost over there is any more heroic then that of anyone else. He was a soldier, he knew the risks.
“And the common man? Does he risk less on the battlefield” – Braveheart. Probably wrongly quoted.
As a journalist myself, I was appalled to see that the article was even published, let alone written in the first place.
I know the paper says it was protecting freedom of speech by publishing the letter, but come on, at some point you have to draw the line. Being an editor, I would not have run that column if it was presented to me.
Tillman should be honored. To make the sacrifice he did when a lot of people did a lot of talk and didn’t back up their actions, Tillman went out and did what he believed in.
We should all be as strong in our convictions as Tillman was.
Oh, and while we’re on the topic of war, what does everyone think about the Nightline controversy?
I personally think Nightline should be allowed to show their tribute.
If Tillman can be honored by every news station, so too, should every other man and woman that made the ultimate sacrifice.
As journalist, we have to present the whole story, and soldiers dying in combat is a big piece of this story.
-Djwlfpack
“If Tillman can be honored by every news station, so too, should every other man and woman that made the ultimate sacrifice.
As journalist, we have to present the whole story, and soldiers dying in combat is a big piece of this story.
-Djwlfpack”
The problem with the Nightline “tribute” is that it didn’t include soldiers who died in Afghanistan, only those who died in Iraq.
Nights, no one is saying that him dieing is more important than anybody else dieing. but he did give up more than the average person to protect this country. And he is protecting this country. They are eliminating terrorists so that things like 9/11 do not happen again. Idiots. I dont understand how you people think.
I really don’t think that invading another nation will end all future terrorist attacks. I really don’t see how you can believe it will. That’s how this idiot thinks.
That said, still don’t see the reason why he should be proclaimed a hero because he gave up a the millionair lifestyle for war. Yes, it’s a sacrifice. So is someone that leaves his family behind. So is someone that leaves mcDonalds behind. I think there are too many people that idolize the rich and famous so that this sacrifice is seen as higher then anyone elses.
Anyone who dies for this country is a hero in my book, regardless of the motivation behind it. Thank you Pat Tillman and all the others for fighting for the United States of America!!
I agree, i shoul’ve said “some” of the people who join are sociopaths (like Rangertab for ex.). And as to the war, I was speaking of Iraq as being unnecessary, not Afg. Thank you for replying with intelligence.
Hearing the story of Pat Tillman renewed my faith in humankind. His family should be proud to have had a son/brother with such a level of charachter rarely seen nowadays. Whether the masses deem the term “hero” appropriate or not is irrelevant to me. But in my opinion he is one hell of a role model. How many people do YOU know that have that kind of character, fortitude, and sense of loyalty?
rangertab - you still over here? Swing by the 63rd EOD Muscle Beach at Victory Base South sometime.
You are arrogant. Your arrogance is borne from your lack of maturity and youth. As you grown up you will realize how small a man you are. Hopefully you will grow as a man but perhaps not.
I watched Pat Tillman’s memorial service last night. The guy had lifelong friends from first grade. His wife was his high school sweetheart. If half the people in my life remember me as fondly as Pat tillman I will consider myself lucky.
The Master of Ceremonies made a great comment. He said he is going to tell his son about Pat Tillman in hope that he groes up to emulate the man because “Pat was the kind of man you want your kids to grow up to be, hell Pat was the kind of man I want to be”.
Nuff said. Rene,When you have actually accomplished something with your life and done something, maybe then people will care that you have something to write about.
To Other T-Men,
Engaging some of the self centered assholes like Il cazzo, Nights, and doogie in what could be considerde Post-Conventional reasoning,(thinging outside of ones self) is like asking a chimpanzee to tell you the combination to a safe. The only response you can reasonably expect is that the chimp will smack off and throw shit at you,just as these fools have done.So let these morons walk the earth living empty lives, and dying empty deaths. They are the ones who suffer for their own lack of morals and values. T-men are better than that. WE do not need to come down to the levels of the likes of Il cazzo and his ilk.I know that I can do better. Anyone else?
The best part is I’ll bet Pat Tillman wouldn’t’ve even given a sh-t what reme frigging nobody gonzalez’s opinion of him was. Obviosuly I didnt know pat tillman, but he seems like someone who had rock solid self confidence, enough to not care what others said about him. He did what was right for HIM.
Did you guys hear the radio story this morning about how Pat Tillman’s service was today and the same day as his service, a newspaper in his hometown printed a cartoon bashing him?..the media can be so out of control, slanted, inappropriate and full of it. Some things are just plain wrong. His poor family. That is simply no class. I hope that newspaper goes out of business.