Pat Mendes Comeback

143 lets go!

If training there is temporary it could actually help him in some regard. He is hitting good numbers in a sub-optimal setting and likely with a bellow average bar and he has to lower the weight back down every time.

When he will gets back to a more weightlifting-friendly atmosphere, that alone should give him a quick burst in performance. Not to mention getting back to proper bars… training on suboptimal bars can actually help him with technique because you have much less leeway.

And having to lower the weight might actually build more strength, this was actually one of Alexeyev’s “secrets”, never dropping the bar in training.

That having been said, I wonder why he didn’t joint a Crossfit gym… he would have least have access to somewhat decent lifting equipment and a better environment. I’m sure that there is at least one near where he lives. If anything he could even make a few bucks teaching olympic lifting classes to crossfit individuals.

The one thing that might be important if he is to perform well in actual competitions would be to train the snatch more often without straps. I know that he is now training in a commercial gym without bumpers, so he might not have a choice, at least for the heavier weights.

But even when he was training at ABG he seemed to use straps almost all the time.

NOW I understand, for having lived it, that your hands can take a beating. And when your hands hurt or feel weak that day, using straps is better than not being able to snatch. But I believe that one of the reasons why Pat snatched so much less in competition (drugs also played a role obviously) is the over-reliance on straps.

I’ve made that mistake myself… I have small hands and snatching with straps was so much easier… at one point I could snatch 142.5 with straps but only 125 without…

This year when I decided to get back to olympic lifting after years of more general training during which I always used straps, snatching 60kg without straps was hard even though I could power snatch 115 from blocks.

Guys with a naturally strong grip or big hands can get away with using straps more often, but if grip is an issue I wouldn’t use them too often. Not to mention that lifting with straps changes the dynamics of the lift slightly.

Yes a lot of elite lifters often wear straps… but their technique is automatized and their hands are strong and have been tested time and time again. But for a lot of people it can become an issue.

What I find funny about the story of Pat is that imo it “proves” the point that US WLing sucks because there is no systematic use of PEDs. But nobody wants to use his story like that and still try to find other explanations.
Pat’s case (and the other AverageBroz lifter) showed us that to be competitive in WLing you need 4 basic ingredients:
(1) Talent
(2) A good coach
(3) Brutal training
(4) PEDs (in particular AAS)
I mean that guy snatched 200+kg and squatted 800lbs for god’s sake. Sure it was in training and all but compare that to the level of the rest of US lifters.

I’m not judging nor am I saying that the PED explanation is a novel idea. All I’m saying is that his story makes for some great evidence for the PED hypothesis and that fact is not stressed enough imo.

Inb4 someone tries to convince me that Pat and the other Broz lifter didn’t use a good dose of AAS as well.

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
If training there is temporary it could actually help him in some regard. He is hitting good numbers in a sub-optimal setting and likely with a bellow average bar and he has to lower the weight back down every time.

When he will gets back to a more weightlifting-friendly atmosphere, that alone should give him a quick burst in performance. Not to mention getting back to proper bars… training on suboptimal bars can actually help him with technique because you have much less leeway.

And having to lower the weight might actually build more strength, this was actually one of Alexeyev’s “secrets”, never dropping the bar in training.

That having been said, I wonder why he didn’t joint a Crossfit gym… he would have least have access to somewhat decent lifting equipment and a better environment. I’m sure that there is at least one near where he lives. If anything he could even make a few bucks teaching olympic lifting classes to crossfit individuals.

The one thing that might be important if he is to perform well in actual competitions would be to train the snatch more often without straps. I know that he is now training in a commercial gym without bumpers, so he might not have a choice, at least for the heavier weights.

But even when he was training at ABG he seemed to use straps almost all the time.

NOW I understand, for having lived it, that your hands can take a beating. And when your hands hurt or feel weak that day, using straps is better than not being able to snatch. But I believe that one of the reasons why Pat snatched so much less in competition (drugs also played a role obviously) is the over-reliance on straps.

I’ve made that mistake myself… I have small hands and snatching with straps was so much easier… at one point I could snatch 142.5 with straps but only 125 without…

This year when I decided to get back to olympic lifting after years of more general training during which I always used straps, snatching 60kg without straps was hard even though I could power snatch 115 from blocks.

Guys with a naturally strong grip or big hands can get away with using straps more often, but if grip is an issue I wouldn’t use them too often. Not to mention that lifting with straps changes the dynamics of the lift slightly.

Yes a lot of elite lifters often wear straps… but their technique is automatized and their hands are strong and have been tested time and time again. But for a lot of people it can become an issue.[/quote]

Maybe it’s a cost thing? I’ve also noticed that a bunch of the crossfit boxes in my area don’t allow you access to open gym i.e. you have to pay and participate in crossfit classes to use the gym.

I also agree once Pat gets back into a real gym with good bars, atmosphere, etc etc, he’ll see some fast improvement especially considering how ingrained those movements are in his muscle memory.

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
What I find funny about the story of Pat is that imo it “proves” the point that US WLing sucks because there is no systematic use of PEDs. But nobody wants to use his story like that and still try to find other explanations.
Pat’s case (and the other AverageBroz lifter) showed us that to be competitive in WLing you need 4 basic ingredients:
(1) Talent
(2) A good coach
(3) Brutal training
(4) PEDs (in particular AAS)
I mean that guy snatched 200+kg and squatted 800lbs for god’s sake. Sure it was in training and all but compare that to the level of the rest of US lifters.

I’m not judging nor am I saying that the PED explanation is a novel idea. All I’m saying is that his story makes for some great evidence for the PED hypothesis and that fact is not stressed enough imo.

Inb4 someone tries to convince me that Pat and the other Broz lifter didn’t use a good dose of AAS as well.[/quote]

Agreed, I think it’s half people being naive and the other half being realistic. The naive downplay the huge significance of PEDs in weightlifting. I think these are the people who’ve never really seen the massive training load of elite weightlifters.

On the other hand, the realistic accept that USADA probably isn’t going to relent anytime soon. I’d see this group as long time athletes and coaches who know that PEDs would certainly help but also recognize there are other areas of improvement (sponsorship, recruitment, etc) that also need to be addressed for the US to be competitive in weightlifting. They choose to focus upon something they have control over rather than bitch about PED use. But that’s just my opinion as well.

[quote]no_name_narrator wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
What I find funny about the story of Pat is that imo it “proves” the point that US WLing sucks because there is no systematic use of PEDs. But nobody wants to use his story like that and still try to find other explanations.
Pat’s case (and the other AverageBroz lifter) showed us that to be competitive in WLing you need 4 basic ingredients:
(1) Talent
(2) A good coach
(3) Brutal training
(4) PEDs (in particular AAS)
I mean that guy snatched 200+kg and squatted 800lbs for god’s sake. Sure it was in training and all but compare that to the level of the rest of US lifters.

I’m not judging nor am I saying that the PED explanation is a novel idea. All I’m saying is that his story makes for some great evidence for the PED hypothesis and that fact is not stressed enough imo.

Inb4 someone tries to convince me that Pat and the other Broz lifter didn’t use a good dose of AAS as well.[/quote]

Agreed, I think it’s half people being naive and the other half being realistic. The naive downplay the huge significance of PEDs in weightlifting. I think these are the people who’ve never really seen the massive training load of elite weightlifters.

On the other hand, the realistic accept that USADA probably isn’t going to relent anytime soon. I’d see this group as long time athletes and coaches who know that PEDs would certainly help but also recognize there are other areas of improvement (sponsorship, recruitment, etc) that also need to be addressed for the US to be competitive in weightlifting. They choose to focus upon something they have control over rather than bitch about PED use. But that’s just my opinion as well.[/quote]

With the recent Tour de France and Baseball scandals it is very unlikely that any federation will start being looser on the doping policies.

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]no_name_narrator wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
What I find funny about the story of Pat is that imo it “proves” the point that US WLing sucks because there is no systematic use of PEDs. But nobody wants to use his story like that and still try to find other explanations.
Pat’s case (and the other AverageBroz lifter) showed us that to be competitive in WLing you need 4 basic ingredients:
(1) Talent
(2) A good coach
(3) Brutal training
(4) PEDs (in particular AAS)
I mean that guy snatched 200+kg and squatted 800lbs for god’s sake. Sure it was in training and all but compare that to the level of the rest of US lifters.

I’m not judging nor am I saying that the PED explanation is a novel idea. All I’m saying is that his story makes for some great evidence for the PED hypothesis and that fact is not stressed enough imo.

Inb4 someone tries to convince me that Pat and the other Broz lifter didn’t use a good dose of AAS as well.[/quote]

Agreed, I think it’s half people being naive and the other half being realistic. The naive downplay the huge significance of PEDs in weightlifting. I think these are the people who’ve never really seen the massive training load of elite weightlifters.

On the other hand, the realistic accept that USADA probably isn’t going to relent anytime soon. I’d see this group as long time athletes and coaches who know that PEDs would certainly help but also recognize there are other areas of improvement (sponsorship, recruitment, etc) that also need to be addressed for the US to be competitive in weightlifting. They choose to focus upon something they have control over rather than bitch about PED use. But that’s just my opinion as well.[/quote]

With the recent Tour de France and Baseball scandals it is very unlikely that any federation will start being looser on the doping policies.
[/quote]

Oh I completely agree. That’s why I don’t think you hear the more elite coaches and weightlifters in the US talking about steroids. I feel like they realize steroids are a huge player in weightlifting but realize there is little that they can actually do about the situation. What they can do is try to fix many of the other problems that also face USAW such as sponsorships and money, training, recruitment.

[quote]no_name_narrator wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]no_name_narrator wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
What I find funny about the story of Pat is that imo it “proves” the point that US WLing sucks because there is no systematic use of PEDs. But nobody wants to use his story like that and still try to find other explanations.
Pat’s case (and the other AverageBroz lifter) showed us that to be competitive in WLing you need 4 basic ingredients:
(1) Talent
(2) A good coach
(3) Brutal training
(4) PEDs (in particular AAS)
I mean that guy snatched 200+kg and squatted 800lbs for god’s sake. Sure it was in training and all but compare that to the level of the rest of US lifters.

I’m not judging nor am I saying that the PED explanation is a novel idea. All I’m saying is that his story makes for some great evidence for the PED hypothesis and that fact is not stressed enough imo.

Inb4 someone tries to convince me that Pat and the other Broz lifter didn’t use a good dose of AAS as well.[/quote]

Agreed, I think it’s half people being naive and the other half being realistic. The naive downplay the huge significance of PEDs in weightlifting. I think these are the people who’ve never really seen the massive training load of elite weightlifters.

On the other hand, the realistic accept that USADA probably isn’t going to relent anytime soon. I’d see this group as long time athletes and coaches who know that PEDs would certainly help but also recognize there are other areas of improvement (sponsorship, recruitment, etc) that also need to be addressed for the US to be competitive in weightlifting. They choose to focus upon something they have control over rather than bitch about PED use. But that’s just my opinion as well.[/quote]

With the recent Tour de France and Baseball scandals it is very unlikely that any federation will start being looser on the doping policies.
[/quote]

Oh I completely agree. That’s why I don’t think you hear the more elite coaches and weightlifters in the US talking about steroids. I feel like they realize steroids are a huge player in weightlifting but realize there is little that they can actually do about the situation. What they can do is try to fix many of the other problems that also face USAW such as sponsorships and money, training, recruitment. [/quote]

Sure, but that begs the question why anyone should bother competing in a sport where it is blatantly obvious a priori that you can’t compete with the best, if you don’t/can’t use PEDs. Sure one could imagine motivations for competing other than actually having a chance to win, but those typically apply to hobby lifters and not high talent athletes.

ps: Found this on USADA - Didn’t know the 2nd AverageBroz’s lifter also “refused to get tested”
Joshua Gilbert/Weightlifting/3 Year Suspension - Loss of Results/Furosemide and Refusal/7/17/2012