Part Time PT, Legal Questions

Training Bodybuilding
1

Hi guys,

I have basically no knowledge about the ins and outs of this. I’m in college and want to post an ad in the newspaper and in craigslist and net a few PT clients for fat loss, recomp, strength/athletics, mass, whatever. I’m guessing it’ll mostly be “feel good” and fat loss clients, and that’s cool.

I’m an easygoing guy and I like to work one on one with people, and find myself helping others for free in the gym!

What I’m concerned with is this: I don’t really want to jump through the hoops of getting a PT cert unless it’s a legal necessity. I am going to pick my clients with some care, so hopefully no civil-suit happy nutballs will be lurking, but how do I cover my ass? Do certs even help with this kind of stuff? I know Chad Waterbury, for instance, doesn’t have a cert.

Here’s how I see my options
a) get a cert (if it helps legal stuff) but I’d really prefer not to. Conversely, if there is some BS online cert I can get that will somehow give legal protection, great.
b) write up a waiver (how hard is this? Could be better to spend cash hiring a lawyer to help, than getting a cert)
c) just being careful. this depends on how hard it is to get sued as an occasional PT. The usual advice (documented) about getting a physical before taking any advice goes, of course

I don’t give a damn about getting a PT cert just to have letters behind my name.

Also, what’s a reasonable yet competitive starting rate, assuming I will work with each client 2-4 hours per week? I’d be happy with $20/hour.

Any advice at all in this realm would be really helpful.

2

[quote]conwict wrote:
Hi guys,

I have basically no knowledge about the ins and outs of this. I’m in college and want to post an ad in the newspaper and in craigslist and net a few PT clients for fat loss, recomp, strength/athletics, mass, whatever. I’m guessing it’ll mostly be “feel good” and fat loss clients, and that’s cool.

I’m an easygoing guy and I like to work one on one with people, and find myself helping others for free in the gym!

What I’m concerned with is this: I don’t really want to jump through the hoops of getting a PT cert unless it’s a legal necessity. I am going to pick my clients with some care, so hopefully no civil-suit happy nutballs will be lurking, but how do I cover my ass? Do certs even help with this kind of stuff? I know Chad Waterbury, for instance, doesn’t have a cert.

Here’s how I see my options
a) get a cert (if it helps legal stuff) but I’d really prefer not to. Conversely, if there is some BS online cert I can get that will somehow give legal protection, great.
b) write up a waiver (how hard is this? Could be better to spend cash hiring a lawyer to help, than getting a cert)
c) just being careful. this depends on how hard it is to get sued as an occasional PT. The usual advice (documented) about getting a physical before taking any advice goes, of course

I don’t give a damn about getting a PT cert just to have letters behind my name.

Also, what’s a reasonable yet competitive starting rate, assuming I will work with each client 2-4 hours per week? I’d be happy with $20/hour.

Any advice at all in this realm would be really helpful.[/quote]

You don’t absolutely need a cert to become a trainer, but you will in all likelihood need some sort of either education or experience that shows that you are qualified to train others. Even without the legal issues, people just aren’t going to pay any Joe Shmoe $20/hour to train them. They want some sort of proof that the person knows what they’re doing and will give the client results.

So, you’ll most likely need either:

A) a certification. Doesn’t have to be the biggest organization though, most of the time any fairly recognized cert will do.

B) a degree. Once again doesn’t have to be a Masters, but the higher the degree, the higher your credibility will be in some people’s eyes.

C) a trophy, record, or really any evidence that you’ve had substantial experience achieving the desired goal yourself (even an impressive physique will do in some cases). Lots of pro bodybuilders become successful trainers after they retire because they have credibility for having the knowledge to build an impressive physique.

Also, the more of the above 3 things you have the better in most cases.

As far as the legal side of things, having a cert provides concrete proof that you are qualified to be teaching people things (and charging them for your information). If the client gets hurt and blames it on you, you can always point to having done things in accordance with what you were taught (I’m assuming that you’ll be doing so) and to their signed waiver.

You also don’t really need a lawyer to write up a liability waiver, they’re fairly simple and straight to the point. So I wouldn’t personally suggest paying one to do so. If you still want to go right ahead, that’s just my opinion.

The funny thing about the whole subject is that you can train people for free all you want and basically have no possibility of legal ramifications. But the second you charge someone for your services, you automatically assume some responsibility for their actions.

Good luck and hope this helps.

3

There’s a guy in my Uni gym who trained there for his first year, made most of his friends there. He’s really nice, and people would ask him for help.

Anyway, he just put up fliers one day saying that he was getting his foot in the door and wanted to take on a few clients.

He wrote a ‘contract’ that basically said, “by signing this, you promise to do nothing against me in any manner at any time for any reason whether it be an issue and/or injury mental emotional and/or physical that resulted either directly or indirectly, or in collaboration with, or in effect of, anything even remotely having to do with my regimen, diet, exercises, mood, attitude, politcal standing, or body odor. By signing this, sign away the right to do anything against me.”

Whether this would actually hold up, I don’t know. But he makes enough to pay his bills each month, and enjoys it.

4

In Australia, to get insurance you need to have a qualification.

If you can swing yourself some insurance and have a good waiver signed (I would get this checked out by a solicitor if I were you) then you should be fine.

Where are you going to train people?

Do you have a plan?

If you’re going to start a business (and that’s what this will be) then better to do the prep work now and head off any problems before they occur rather than deal with them later.

5

I’m with you Sxio. About the prep work. I would prefer to train people at college with a flat rate (say, $50 per week and as much time as they need with me, which shouldn’t exceed 2-3 hours) or at other gyms where outside PTs are allowed.

I am gonna be safe rather than sorry with the waiver. I think that’s the main thing.

Sento, I’m thinking if anyone asks what I have done I’ll just say it took me less than two years to get from 150 to 210lb. I also think that demeanor, social skills, and ability to explain will become evident in an “interview” with a potential PT client. I could even offer free consultations.

Basically my plan is to post fliers, Craigslist, newspaper ads, have a waiver form and a questionnaire, and then do a free assessment/consultation…if everything clicks with a particular person, I will help them in any manner possible achieve their goal for a flat rate if they’re a college student, or if they need an inordinate amount of contact time then for 15-20 per hour.

I have a former judge friend of the family so I’ll probably ask him about the waiver thing, but any further advice would be appreciated Sento.

I’d really appreciate anyone else chiming in.

6

[quote]Squiggles wrote:
There’s a guy in my Uni gym who trained there for his first year, made most of his friends there. He’s really nice, and people would ask him for help.

Anyway, he just put up fliers one day saying that he was getting his foot in the door and wanted to take on a few clients.

He wrote a ‘contract’ that basically said, “by signing this, you promise to do nothing against me in any manner at any time for any reason whether it be an issue and/or injury mental emotional and/or physical that resulted either directly or indirectly, or in collaboration with, or in effect of, anything even remotely having to do with my regimen, diet, exercises, mood, attitude, politcal standing, or body odor. By signing this, sign away the right to do anything against me.”

Whether this would actually hold up, I don’t know. But he makes enough to pay his bills each month, and enjoys it. [/quote]

No, it would not hold up.

7

TJN, any advice you got in that case?

8

Personal training is not federally regulated at the moment. Unlike being a lawyer or architect, you don’t need to be certified to train. It’s more to make the client/gym feel like your competant. As far as insurance goes, it’ll cost your about 170 bucks a year for personal liabiltyu insurance. Ive been training for a year now, and I’ve never even had anyone ask me where I am certified.

9

I didn’t think anyone would ask. It’s always seemed like a waste of time to get a cert, to me, if you already know what you’re doing.

jon, have you got the liability ins? seems like it’d be worth it.

10

I only got certified so that I could get hired by a gym. I did it through ISSA because it was fairly cheap and no classroom hours and no proctored test. Most people look down on ISSA because of that, but It didn’t matter to the gym owner, he made me fitness director for all 3 of his gyms.

I don’t have the liabilty insurance because I only do training in the gym and I am covered on their insurance. I have a buddy who runs a little insurance agency so I asked him about prices incase I decided to train outside of the gym. But it should be cheap and worth getting to cover your own ass.

Generally, you’re going to encounter a wide range of people who are looking for personal training. A lot of them are on the weird side to be honest, so the insurance is a must to make sure you don’t get sued by a nut job. Even with a doctors consult and a medical questionaire, I’ve found out clients were withholding medical information from me later on down the road because they didn’t think I needed to know. One client was diabetic and didn’t tell me for 2 months.

11

[quote]conwict wrote:
TJN, any advice you got in that case?[/quote]

Get some insurance, for sure. Also, you can find better indemnity/hold harmless language online. The language you quoted was way too broad, as it looked like it contemplated holding the trainer harmless for any of his intentional acts which cause injuries.

A Court will not be happy with this language. Just find something with language holding you harmless for any negligent acts. If your insurance is worth anything, it will protect you in that situation, anyway.

12

It’ll be hard to find any gym that will let you train other people. School’s prob the only place that you could get away with it - even then it’s prob against the rules.

13

[quote]TJN713 wrote:
conwict wrote:
TJN, any advice you got in that case?

Get some insurance, for sure. Also, you can find better indemnity/hold harmless language online. The language you quoted was way too broad, as it looked like it contemplated holding the trainer harmless for any of his intentional acts which cause injuries.

A Court will not be happy with this language. Just find something with language holding you harmless for any negligent acts. If your insurance is worth anything, it will protect you in that situation, anyway.[/quote]

I don’t recall quoting anything, I think someone else did. I think it’s just gonna be easier to run it thru my former judge friend anyway, and be sure about it. Then get the insurance as double protection.

14

[quote]HoratioSandoval wrote:
It’ll be hard to find any gym that will let you train other people. School’s prob the only place that you could get away with it - even then it’s prob against the rules.[/quote]

Yeah, this will be the toughest part. I really have to think my options through. Since I am thinking of just charging 40-50 as a flat rate weekly, I don’t know that I could afford to give a portion of that up to a gym. Heck, four clients a week times three hours or so apiece is all I can swing, and that’s only 160-200 bucks a week…kinda tough to give part of that up to a gym.

15

[quote]conwict wrote:
HoratioSandoval wrote:
It’ll be hard to find any gym that will let you train other people. School’s prob the only place that you could get away with it - even then it’s prob against the rules.

Yeah, this will be the toughest part. I really have to think my options through. Since I am thinking of just charging 40-50 as a flat rate weekly, I don’t know that I could afford to give a portion of that up to a gym. Heck, four clients a week times three hours or so apiece is all I can swing, and that’s only 160-200 bucks a week…kinda tough to give part of that up to a gym.[/quote]

Most gyms are not going to negotiate a cut with you, especially at below-market rates. If you want to work in a commercial gym, you will probably need to get a gym to hire you.

16

General comment - any release form that you have your clients sign should clearly say in no way you are a certified pt trainer otherwise the release becomes useless as a form of legal protection.

17

true, you cannot say you are a CERTIFIED personal trainer, but you can say you are a personal trainer, and their are 50 dollar personal trainer certs you can get online for an hour of your time.

18

just be careful…insurance is a must…i’ve been in the business for 9 years and what i have found is that as good and loyal as you think a client is they can and sometimes turn on you in an instance wether it be to try to get out of an obligation with you or a gym membership or whatever…just cover your tracks…pm me and i will give you a link where you can down load forms and waivers for free…health history and doctors releases( in some cases) are very , very important…just keep files with everything and don’t take anything for granted…good luck