that is muscle shortening…and tissue becoming matted …especially through the midsection. look at king and his overtrained biceps…shorter and shorter every year untill possible rupture. this can potentially happen to anybody! this cannot be explained BY DRUGS. it is overtraining. muscles do not shorten and matte up because of drugs. somebody would need to explain that part to me.
muscles shorten over time! ask any physiotherapist… the human body is incredibly strong, and it is very tough to actually cause real trauma to muscle, but it does happen. there are so many variables as to HOW one gets it. alot of the time it seems that tissue type can determine ones ‘durability’. this durability could also be linked to other aspects of ones life. true fast twitch fiber is the most durable. but there are so many other possible avenues to take to get palumboism.
i dont see how DRUGS are directly causing muscles to shorten? people like serge nubret are examples of good genetics, higher fast fiber %, (as well as other attributes) allowed him to train almost any way he wanted. now he too has a limit, as any man does, but that limit may be double that of a ‘typical’ bodybuilder, with a lower % of fast fibers and other things.
we need to look Only at the people that HAVE the disease, not people that dont. people that dont merely show how much the human body can get away with. but later in life it will show itself, unless taken care of (lengthening). i challenge anybody to explain how rich gasparis drug use led to his current body looking the way it does.
king kamali. his muscle is shortening EVERWHERE, and im sure he realizes it. only thing he doesnt realize, is WHAT THE ACTUAL PROBLEM IS. muscle shortening is the begining stages of eventual tears. he has overtrained his biceps, one way or another, directly or indirectly. but to kamalis credit, he doesnt have the worst case of palumboism. that would be rich gaspari. lets use him as the defining example of a high stage palumboism case. then we can go from there
[quote]thomasTHEtank57 wrote:
king kamali. his muscle is shortening EVERWHERE, and im sure he realizes it. only thing he doesnt realize, is WHAT THE ACTUAL PROBLEM IS. muscle shortening is the begining stages of eventual tears. he has overtrained his biceps, one way or another, directly or indirectly. but to kamalis credit, he doesnt have the worst case of palumboism. that would be rich gaspari. lets use him as the defining example of a high stage palumboism case. then we can go from there[/quote]
[quote]thomasTHEtank57 wrote:
people like serge nubret are examples of good genetics, higher fast fiber %, (as well as other attributes) allowed him to train almost any way he wanted. now he too has a limit, as any man does,
[/quote]
Yeah, death can be one hell of an obstacle to training.
[quote]thomasTHEtank57 wrote:
people like serge nubret are examples of good genetics, higher fast fiber %, (as well as other attributes) allowed him to train almost any way he wanted. now he too has a limit, as any man does,
[/quote]
Yeah, death can be one hell of an obstacle to training.[/quote]
I have noticed if my heart isn’t beating it’s virtually impossible to get a good pump.
Okay, so based on everything I read here and elsewhere, here’s my theory.
The constant and heavy training, very little or no restoration work, drugs, and time all create this effect in which the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
I think the mistake is trying to find just one cause.
“Now, he too has a limit.” in refrence to surge…OK…sheesh… I meant to put that… Not reffering to the man as living in the now. Again , i would need explanation as to how drugs matte and shorten tissue. it is overtraining! Working in a physiotherapy office, you see a ton of this shortening on normal people who dont workout, but their job or lifestyle has burned out and shortened certain arras.arreas. Fiber type plays a big role. I only brought up surge nubret in response to someone refrreferencing his high volume work.
[quote]thomasTHEtank57 wrote:
Again , i would need explanation as to how drugs matte and shorten tissue. it is overtraining! [/quote]
I think the drugs can help people lift with more volume, intensity, and benefit from better protein synthesis.
Maybe as they accrue injuries and scar tissue - the kind that you and others mentioned - their muscles go through some bizarre evolution. The parts of their bodies that can still grow (or at least not atrophy) grows or stays the same. The other parts shrivel. So you end up with these grotesque builds that make even other weight lifters cringe.
I’m on board with your theory that repeat trauma has consequences. But you lose me (and maybe others here) when you claim that drugs play ZERO role in palumboism.
[quote]thomasTHEtank57 wrote:
Working in a physiotherapy office, you see a ton of this shortening on normal people who dont workout, but their job or lifestyle has burned out and shortened certain arras.arreas.[/quote]
These regular folks you talk about most likely aren’t juicing to the gills. And I doubt they’re eating the calories that pro bodybuilders shovel in.
I’m beginning to think more and more in this equation:
repeat trauma from the weight lifting
accumulation of scar tissue and damage to fascia
drugs which allow the lifter to continue training heavy x hard and absorb protein better than natties
^^^ This is all a theory. It’s the best explanation I can think of. Am I right or even in the ball park? Who knows?
I’m interested in this subject because I want to be as strong as possible and look as impressive as possible. But I sure as hell don’t want to end up looking like some caricature.
[quote]kravi wrote:
Come buy some tsteorestone! Only $5. BIG MUSCLES, special for you! And if you pay for it with bank number, a dead heir of a fortune in Nigeria has left you $200,000,00 I can send!
–Me[/quote]
Lol why did u have to mention nigeria,ehn [/quote]
Nothing against Nigeria. But for years there was a spate of phishing emails saying that a Nigerian heiress had passed away and XXXXX from the Bank of Nigeria, would send you the money if you would transfer $5k to cover expenses. So that was my reference
i am not sold on the role of drugs in this equation. again, i have seen this in regular normal every day non bodybuilding people. you just dont see it in those areas as often. it is muscle shortening! literally. not deformed, shortened, and matted.
muscle shortening is also associated with muscle tears or tendon damage. but those do not need to be present in order to achieve a shortening effect. drugs allow the user more room for overtraining and the means to do so. you still need to Overtrain physically, in order to achieve this look.
[quote]thomasTHEtank57 wrote:
i am not sold on the role of drugs in this equation.[/quote]
It almost sounds like you’re contradicting yourself.
And I already said the drugs provide an environment in which people can train harder and get more out of protein synthesis. That’s why some of these bbers look even more exaggerated than the general population you deal with.
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
I see this thread attracted some really sharp people.[/quote]
For almost 2 years now too! -lol
S
[/quote]
Elaborate please?[/quote]
I’m just surprised that this thread has lasted so long. A lot of people seemed to get their feathers ruffled when Brick first posted it, but it’s kind of hard not to look at some of the examples given and not wonder just why whatever physiological changes that are occuring, are doing so.
I certainly don’t have any concrete answers, although there have been some pretty well thought out theories IMO.
