[quote]georgos wrote:
With regard to the theory about prolonged heavy exercise, how come palumboism hasn’t been inflicted upon powerlifters or weighlifters?[/quote]
Or even upon pre-hormone bodybuilders? They certainly lifted heavy weights, and did ridiculous amounts of weight as well.
It somehow seems to be tied up with the latest generation, though I’m not really sure on causality. Pure correlation at this point.
–Me[/quote]
I agree but if you simply put Arnold beside Ronnie and compare, the difference is quite obvious.
I know the aesthetic was different and its like comparing apples n oranges but if you agree that these guys trained equally as hard as one another and both had superior genetics AND if Arnold was competing today he would aspire to look like the current top tier crop then the only difference is drug use…
[quote]SLAINGE wrote:
Just look at Ronnies quads for fooksake! [/quote]
And look at many from the 80s they still look amazing [/quote]
I’ll say it again the only difference is drug use and this is the point I was trying to make. We can agree that each champion trained equally as hard as the other. They also possessed the best genetics to build the most muscle but something else is happening to cause guys to get Paulumboism.
Each new Mr.Olympia saw a shift in aesthetic from Arnold, Bannout, Haney, Dorian, Ronnie etc. Guys looked bigger, harder, dryer, so each successive year saw competitors shift gears and take it up a notch. The only notch still available to manipulate is the type, dose and mix of drugs used.
Has training drastically changed over the decades, are modern bodybuilders using training protocols that are superior or vastly different to the bodybuilders of the past? I don’t think so. So again, the obvious thing that stands out is drugs!
Another question to ask is how early are guys taking drugs now? Are they revving up the body’s metabolism so much so that they are experiencing some sort of accelerated ageing process?
[quote]SLAINGE wrote:
Just look at Ronnies quads for fooksake! [/quote]
And look at many from the 80s they still look amazing [/quote]
I’ll say it again the only difference is drug use and this is the point I was trying to make. We can agree that each champion trained equally as hard as the other. They also possessed the best genetics to build the most muscle but something else is happening to cause guys to get Paulumboism.
Each new Mr.Olympia saw a shift in aesthetic from Arnold, Bannout, Haney, Dorian, Ronnie etc. Guys looked bigger, harder, dryer, so each successive year saw competitors shift gears and take it up a notch. The only notch still available to manipulate is the type, dose and mix of drugs used.
Has training drastically changed over the decades, are modern bodybuilders using training protocols that are superior or vastly different to the bodybuilders of the past? I don’t think so. So again, the obvious thing that stands out is drugs!
Another question to ask is how early are guys taking drugs now? Are they revving up the body’s metabolism so much so that they are experiencing some sort of accelerated ageing process?
Who knows??? [/quote]
Agreed with the drugs being the only and biggest change. GH and insulin being the two
Some great questions. okay. So with Palumboism, we have muscles shortening everywhere, as well as being completely matted. We have to understand that this can happen to anybody! Contraction overload . there are so many factors that could go into how you develop the actual disease itself. Its basically a Degenarative disease, especially near tendons. Volume training and frequency are mainly responsilbe.
But thats not the only way you can develop the disease. Its been around forever. Since humans had muscles. Its a protective mechanism. Cells protecting themselves from their eventual death. any volume is a negative factor, you would want to considera low volume / low frequency approach to training to spare your cells the eventual breakdown that all humans have.
once you reach the point of shortening, it becomes a life long battle to kee it aesthetically pleasing. Its been happening for a long time. You have to really know what to look for. Usually palumboism takes time to develop, but some people train too iintensely and totally change in a year for the worse…
[quote]thomasTHEtank57 wrote:
Some great questions. okay. So with Palumboism, we have muscles shortening everywhere, as well as being completely matted. We have to understand that this can happen to anybody! Contraction overload . there are so many factors that could go into how you develop the actual disease itself. Its basically a Degenarative disease, especially near tendons. Volume training and frequency are mainly responsilbe.
But thats not the only way you can develop the disease. Its been around forever. Since humans had muscles. Its a protective mechanism. Cells protecting themselves from their eventual death. any volume is a negative factor, you would want to considera low volume / low frequency approach to training to spare your cells the eventual breakdown that all humans have.
once you reach the point of shortening, it becomes a life long battle to kee it aesthetically pleasing. Its been happening for a long time. You have to really know what to look for. Usually palumboism takes time to develop, but some people train too iintensely and totally change in a year for the worse… [/quote]
But thats not the only way you can develop the disease. Its been around forever. Since humans had muscles. Its a protective mechanism. Cells protecting themselves from their eventual death. any volume is a negative factor, you would want to considera low volume / low frequency approach to training to spare your cells the eventual breakdown that all humans have…
…Usually palumboism takes time to develop, but some people train too iintensely and totally change in a year for the worse… [/quote]
Wut?
–Me[/quote]
X2 WUT
You had some interesting points previous to this but this sounds a little bit off the wall.
I doubt volume alone would do this, think of all the manual labour people endured over the course of human existence? There would be Palumbosim-ized fuckers everywhere. Even in recent times during slavery, think of the volume of work these people put in ALL THEIR LIVES, they didnt get it.
It’s drugs I tells ya!
Drugs are the only thing that has changed in this equation. People are taking shite they don’t even know. I knew a guy who took testosterone BUT on the vial it was spelled wrong! Imagine that! The guy ended up with bitch tits and had to see a endocrinologist for the pustules the grew on his back (like some fucked up gremlin) and thats just one clown!
Come buy some tsteorestone! Only $5. BIG MUSCLES, special for you! And if you pay for it with bank number, a dead heir of a fortune in Nigeria has left you $200,000,00 I can send!
Overuse …or overtrained. Either way, the muscle is shortening. This can potentially happen to anybody, although usually doesnt. The human body is strong, so its not so easy to just develop this shortening. Bodybuilders from every era have had these symptoms. It is not volume alone, and not just weight. there are so many potential causes , its literally case by case. reasons why you dontdon’t realize that people get this effect, is because most people arentaren’t fully developed like bodybuilders, where its easy to identify damaged areas. non bodybuilders, or avaragee people, tend to develop the issue within their calves, wrist extensor, and felxors, neck.
You donT see bicep shortening, tricep shortening, that often because it is somewhat difficult to overuse these areas in normal life unless say your a carpenter, handyman, etc. Tissue shortens. Were not even talking about the loads of scar tissue that are causingking fibers to stick, nor are we even talking about stretch reflex spindle damage. Like iI saidI’d, there are so many variables as to how you can Cause The shortening, just as there are varyingking degrees of the stage.(wichwhich iI do not believe have been correctly identified). There are solutions that we can discuss. Problem is they are time consuming (everyday) and expensive. LetsLet’s discuss this more
agreed that drugs play a role, but that role (imo) is only to allow the user to overtrain more! since it is seen in avarage people, and bodybuilders, it is safe to assume that palumboism can be Accelerated by the use of drugs. i would say this role is a small one.
we should be careful with stimulants…energy products…these seem to push people to areas of overuse becuause of the relentless energy. from what ive seen. tissue shortening is natural process, and over years of training, eventually tissue will shorten. stretching and cross fiber friction are keys early in the stages…or shortening. so many repitions… imagine every set peformed would also require x amount of stretching.
alot of people dig theirselves a ‘‘hole’’ from never stretching or mobolizing the tissues. so the key is to keep it healthy, because any volume is a negative factor, so you would want maximum muscle stimulation (to grow, assuming)while minimizing total number of sets, frequency, etc. alot of youngsters just follow the standard volume routines and in their mid 20’s start showing signs of shortening, but at the same time are still making muscular gains. it really is a case by case scenario.
[quote]kravi wrote:
Come buy some tsteorestone! Only $5. BIG MUSCLES, special for you! And if you pay for it with bank number, a dead heir of a fortune in Nigeria has left you $200,000,00 I can send!
–Me[/quote]
Lol why did u have to mention nigeria,ehn
[quote]thomasTHEtank57 wrote:
palumboism, may be explained as a direct result of overtraining (in my opinion). it is a shortening of the muscles all around the body. this is not to be confused with muscle damage, or tears, although these do contribute to palumboism as well. infact, muscle damage is what usually starts the lifelong battle against palumobism. think of an empty can of soda, the integrity of the can at 100% is a completly healthy muscle at 100%, lets just say.
now take that can and drop it on the floor, and step on it a bit and kick it around. the dings and dents will be there, and can be repaired to look almost normal by fixing the damage. but the structural integrety has now changed permanently, just like a car in a car accident. same goes with muscle. palumboism is sped up primarily from soft tissue injuries and training itself, or , overtraining.
i personally believe in low frequency volume being great for minimizing damage. any volume is a negative factor, so the repetitive nature of hard training is what causes a shortening of the fiber. the problem is there are so many muscular contractions, especially throughout the arms and this is why usually triceps and biceps muscle are the first to shorten.
muscles in the forearms flexors and extensors shorten, and in my opinion, are the culprit behind most of the arm atrophy. so , either structural muscular damage has occured, or, the reppetitive nature of hard training to me are the biggest causes of palumboism. i do believe it can be tamed, slowed, and somewhat reversed.
it requires medical level ultrasound, stim combo care. also an aggressive stretching And trigger point/massage program. as well as a low frequency training program. [/quote]
Dont know. A volume monster like Serge Nubret retained much of his full muscle bellies up to an ancient age. I think it’s the drugs…
This thread is standing for over a year and a half.
It is the drogas, not training. Well, injuries and drugs I believe. It’s not necessarily a defined condition but more of a bizarre look that can be the combination of the effects of drugs and injuries. You know, scar tissue and muscles atrophied secondary to nerve damage, stuff like that. Its a collection of stuff, similar to how fibromyalgia is characterized.
I’m certainly not going to throw the “it’s gotta be the drugs” line out (because I’m not well versed enough to get into the particulars), but I’m sure it can’t be helping. I can’t recall ever seeing such devolving of a physique in any of the older (40+) competitors I know. Obviously time will take the inevitable toll on us all, but am I wrong in pointing out the trend’s axistence solely among a certain type of competitors?
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
I’m certainly not going to throw the “it’s gotta be the drugs” line out (because I’m not well versed enough to get into the particulars), but I’m sure it can’t be helping. I can’t recall ever seeing such devolving of a physique in any of the older (40+) competitors I know. Obviously time will take the inevitable toll on us all, but am I wrong in pointing out the trend’s axistence solely among a certain type of competitors?
S
[/quote]
No, you’re not. Some of these guys are not old. Either that, or I don’t consider 40-something to be so old that there is such deterioration in a healthy physique.
