Palumboism - Causes and Case Studies

Training
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palumboism, may be explained as a direct result of overtraining (in my opinion). it is a shortening of the muscles all around the body. this is not to be confused with muscle damage, or tears, although these do contribute to palumboism as well. infact, muscle damage is what usually starts the lifelong battle against palumobism. think of an empty can of soda, the integrity of the can at 100% is a completly healthy muscle at 100%, lets just say.

now take that can and drop it on the floor, and step on it a bit and kick it around. the dings and dents will be there, and can be repaired to look almost normal by fixing the damage. but the structural integrety has now changed permanently, just like a car in a car accident. same goes with muscle. palumboism is sped up primarily from soft tissue injuries and training itself, or , overtraining.

i personally believe in low frequency volume being great for minimizing damage. any volume is a negative factor, so the repetitive nature of hard training is what causes a shortening of the fiber. the problem is there are so many muscular contractions, especially throughout the arms and this is why usually triceps and biceps muscle are the first to shorten.

muscles in the forearms flexors and extensors shorten, and in my opinion, are the culprit behind most of the arm atrophy. so , either structural muscular damage has occured, or, the reppetitive nature of hard training to me are the biggest causes of palumboism. i do believe it can be tamed, slowed, and somewhat reversed.

it requires medical level ultrasound, stim combo care. also an aggressive stretching And trigger point/massage program. as well as a low frequency training program.

282

you can see in those pics, ronnie has been carrying some form of damage to his left arm area for quite some time. he may have da,aged itt in his teen years, we wont know. regardless, the injury follows and eventually surfaces itself in his later pics. he also overtrained quite a bit from 99 - 01 because we are able to see the dramatic shortening of his muscles.

look at his abdominal region, the tissue has shortened revealing a wider gap between ‘‘ab blocks.’’ the integrety of ones initial muscular structure is vital to keeping Palumboism at bay.

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I don’t disagree with your theory, but in Ronnies defense I would surmise that the widening of the gap between his ab blocks, as you put it, is probably a result of general stomach distension. Its obvious he held a much tighter vacuum in the 94’ pic.

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[quote]thomasTHEtank57 wrote:
palumboism, may be explained as a direct result of overtraining (in my opinion). it is a shortening of the muscles all around the body. this is not to be confused with muscle damage, or tears, although these do contribute to palumboism as well. infact, muscle damage is what usually starts the lifelong battle against palumobism. think of an empty can of soda, the integrity of the can at 100% is a completly healthy muscle at 100%, lets just say.

now take that can and drop it on the floor, and step on it a bit and kick it around. the dings and dents will be there, and can be repaired to look almost normal by fixing the damage. but the structural integrety has now changed permanently, just like a car in a car accident. same goes with muscle. palumboism is sped up primarily from soft tissue injuries and training itself, or , overtraining.

i personally believe in low frequency volume being great for minimizing damage. any volume is a negative factor, so the repetitive nature of hard training is what causes a shortening of the fiber. the problem is there are so many muscular contractions, especially throughout the arms and this is why usually triceps and biceps muscle are the first to shorten.

muscles in the forearms flexors and extensors shorten, and in my opinion, are the culprit behind most of the arm atrophy. so , either structural muscular damage has occured, or, the reppetitive nature of hard training to me are the biggest causes of palumboism. i do believe it can be tamed, slowed, and somewhat reversed.

it requires medical level ultrasound, stim combo care. also an aggressive stretching And trigger point/massage program. as well as a low frequency training program. [/quote]

Is this pure speculation or are you basing this on something? What is your expertise in this area?

285

i have been looking for answers to palumboism for years. although i never knew of the word itself. alot of my understanding comes from being a certfied PT and the schooling associated with this, but also workingg in within a sports therapy center. i have seen the success and results ofthese therapy types and it directly addresses issues associated with palumboism (or my opinion of what palumboism is.)

286

[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:

[quote]thomasTHEtank57 wrote:
palumboism, may be explained as a direct result of overtraining (in my opinion). it is a shortening of the muscles all around the body. this is not to be confused with muscle damage, or tears, although these do contribute to palumboism as well. infact, muscle damage is what usually starts the lifelong battle against palumobism. think of an empty can of soda, the integrity of the can at 100% is a completly healthy muscle at 100%, lets just say.

now take that can and drop it on the floor, and step on it a bit and kick it around. the dings and dents will be there, and can be repaired to look almost normal by fixing the damage. but the structural integrety has now changed permanently, just like a car in a car accident. same goes with muscle. palumboism is sped up primarily from soft tissue injuries and training itself, or , overtraining.

i personally believe in low frequency volume being great for minimizing damage. any volume is a negative factor, so the repetitive nature of hard training is what causes a shortening of the fiber. the problem is there are so many muscular contractions, especially throughout the arms and this is why usually triceps and biceps muscle are the first to shorten.

muscles in the forearms flexors and extensors shorten, and in my opinion, are the culprit behind most of the arm atrophy. so , either structural muscular damage has occured, or, the reppetitive nature of hard training to me are the biggest causes of palumboism. i do believe it can be tamed, slowed, and somewhat reversed.

it requires medical level ultrasound, stim combo care. also an aggressive stretching And trigger point/massage program. as well as a low frequency training program. [/quote]

Is this pure speculation or are you basing this on something? What is your expertise in this area?[/quote]

Every post in this thread is speculation. No one is running tests on high level Bodybuilders.

287

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:

[quote]thomasTHEtank57 wrote:
palumboism, may be explained as a direct result of overtraining (in my opinion). it is a shortening of the muscles all around the body. this is not to be confused with muscle damage, or tears, although these do contribute to palumboism as well. infact, muscle damage is what usually starts the lifelong battle against palumobism. think of an empty can of soda, the integrity of the can at 100% is a completly healthy muscle at 100%, lets just say.

now take that can and drop it on the floor, and step on it a bit and kick it around. the dings and dents will be there, and can be repaired to look almost normal by fixing the damage. but the structural integrety has now changed permanently, just like a car in a car accident. same goes with muscle. palumboism is sped up primarily from soft tissue injuries and training itself, or , overtraining.

i personally believe in low frequency volume being great for minimizing damage. any volume is a negative factor, so the repetitive nature of hard training is what causes a shortening of the fiber. the problem is there are so many muscular contractions, especially throughout the arms and this is why usually triceps and biceps muscle are the first to shorten.

muscles in the forearms flexors and extensors shorten, and in my opinion, are the culprit behind most of the arm atrophy. so , either structural muscular damage has occured, or, the reppetitive nature of hard training to me are the biggest causes of palumboism. i do believe it can be tamed, slowed, and somewhat reversed.

it requires medical level ultrasound, stim combo care. also an aggressive stretching And trigger point/massage program. as well as a low frequency training program. [/quote]

Is this pure speculation or are you basing this on something? What is your expertise in this area?[/quote]

Every post in this thread is speculation. No one is running tests on high level Bodybuilders.[/quote]

Of course it is speculation, but something is going wrong here.

288

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

Every post in this thread is speculation. No one is running tests on high level Bodybuilders.[/quote]

Of course it is speculation, but something is going wrong here. [/quote]

Oh, I agree. Just noting that if you want to play forum police, you could post the same “is this speculation or are you basing this on something” comment after every theory put forth.

289

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

Every post in this thread is speculation. No one is running tests on high level Bodybuilders.[/quote]

Of course it is speculation, but something is going wrong here. [/quote]

Oh, I agree. Just noting that if you want to play forum police, you could post the same “is this speculation or are you basing this on something” comment after every theory put forth.[/quote]

Yes but that second part is important as there is no basis for that hypothesis

290

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

Every post in this thread is speculation. No one is running tests on high level Bodybuilders.[/quote]

Of course it is speculation, but something is going wrong here. [/quote]

Oh, I agree. Just noting that if you want to play forum police, you could post the same “is this speculation or are you basing this on something” comment after every theory put forth.[/quote]

Yes but that second part is important as there is no basis for ANY hypothesES in these threads as there isn’t much research that has been done.[/quote]

Fixed your quote :slight_smile:

In short, this is a BS session (in a good way, with beers and stogies) with some interesting thoughts, and I think everyone is aware of that. Interesting for all of that.

–Me

291

Martin Kjellstrom (Mutant athlete) seems to be displaying the typical small forearm/wide abdomen.

600×900 50.6 KB

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a result of overtraining…muscles will shorten and bunch up…once they have shortened, it will gradually continue unless one focuses on a lengthening type program. too many repititions, take their toll, regardless if form is perfect. extreme bulking always seems to begin the process of palumboism. this can be explained, of course, by the extreme weight involved to stimulate muscle growth. at a certain point, muscular integrity is compromised. and thats all it takes. i have a feeling that fiber type, plays a role in the rate of palumboism. we may as well call this durability, as fast twitch muscle is more resiliant against aggressive loads, or damage.

you look at a guy like ronnie, and you see the upper tier of durable body builders. most guys tissue would give way under that pressue, but his fiber type distrubution plays a Huge role. durability. every man has a limit, he pushed his, palumboism. look at dave palumbo himself, i have a feeling that if he never balloned up to 315lbs, dave may have kept his body parts lengthy and healthy. greg kovacs, same thing. trey brewer, same thing. the only way i can see exxcessive drug use being a factor, would be in the case of enlarged organs, and maybe the incentive to train aggressivley and often. lets discuss

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[quote]thomasTHEtank57 wrote:
a result of overtraining…muscles will shorten and bunch up…once they have shortened, it will gradually continue unless one focuses on a lengthening type program. too many repititions, take their toll, regardless if form is perfect. extreme bulking always seems to begin the process of palumboism. this can be explained, of course, by the extreme weight involved to stimulate muscle growth. at a certain point, muscular integrity is compromised. and thats all it takes. i have a feeling that fiber type, plays a role in the rate of palumboism. we may as well call this durability, as fast twitch muscle is more resiliant against aggressive loads, or damage.

you look at a guy like ronnie, and you see the upper tier of durable body builders. most guys tissue would give way under that pressue, but his fiber type distrubution plays a Huge role. durability. every man has a limit, he pushed his, palumboism. look at dave palumbo himself, i have a feeling that if he never balloned up to 315lbs, dave may have kept his body parts lengthy and healthy. greg kovacs, same thing. trey brewer, same thing. the only way i can see exxcessive drug use being a factor, would be in the case of enlarged organs, and maybe the incentive to train aggressivley and often. lets discuss[/quote]

I’m not sure where you get the “overtraining leads to muscles shortening up” idea? Is this based on some research, or is it just your working theory? I see someone like Arnold (pre IGF-1/HGG/insulin days but definitely on steroids) and his muscles never shortened up, and he trained as heavy as anyone and advocated a lot of reps. Obviously he never bulked up that large, but in order to bulk up that large you need a lot more assistance than he ever took.

I can’t imagine that size itself causes the midsection to thicken like that. When you look at fat people (not 800 lb monsters from Discovery Health, mind you), they do have some subcutaneous fat, but the majority of their large gut is visceral fat swelling their organs and pushing out on their stomach muscles. When you see the large stomachs which are apparent in Palumboism on guys with low bodyfat, it is obvious that something is causing their internal organs to either:
a. Grow a ridiculous amount (I don’t buy it) or
b. Gain a lot of visceral fat

I would say option “b” is the most likely, as we know that certain health conditions caused by eating habits (including large amounts of insulin in diabetics) can cause your organs to have a lot of visceral fat without necessarily a significant amount of subcutaneous fat.

As for the shortening of the muscles, I really don’t know. I don’t know how much of it is a muscle getting shorter, or something happening to bone structure in the body, again likely (I say this because of lack of other reasons) due to large amounts of external, uhm, chemical or hormonal assistance.

Just my two cents - and all of it speculation.

–Me

294

I like the way ThomasTheTank is thinking!

Judging by the state of Ronnie in that photo it looks as if he is carrying a lot of damaged muscle tissue. His muscles remind me of a gnarled twisted old tree on a wind swept hill side, they look over worked and full of old injuries.

From this simple animation you can see the development of a trigger point or knot or taut band. This is how an over worked muscle through repetitive shortening develops trigger points. Have a feel of your own hamstrings, I bet you can feel quite a few lumps and bumps! What you are looking for are thick, obvious taut bands of muscle, or lumps and nodules, some which may be painful to press. Now’ if you have them, think how many Ronnie has picked up over the years, squatting 800lbs etc. think how much more he has trained than you!

Here’s another animation on the development of trigger points. Look from 1:20 onwards if you’re to impatient. Couple the development of trigger points with the prolonged tension heavy exercise has on fascia (causing it to dehydrate and shrink) PLUS heavy drug use, bulking and cutting cycles that would kill most of us and you got a recipe for what we are seeing in this thread (just maybe…)

Someone here once used to vocalise quite a bit about how bodybuilding was not about health and he was right’ it’s about pushing the envelope further and further and guys who take it there come back looking like a ‘double’ in mid-transformation from Invasion of the Body Snatchers

Check out Tom Myers (Anatomy Trains Author) speaking about drying out fascia. This guy knows his stuff btw!

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With regard to the theory about prolonged heavy exercise, how come palumboism hasn’t been inflicted upon powerlifters or weighlifters?

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[quote]georgos wrote:
With regard to the theory about prolonged heavy exercise, how come palumboism hasn’t been inflicted upon powerlifters or weighlifters?[/quote]

Or even upon pre-hormone bodybuilders? They certainly lifted heavy weights, and did ridiculous amounts of weight as well.

It somehow seems to be tied up with the latest generation, though I’m not really sure on causality. Pure correlation at this point.

–Me

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I am surprised this thread is going strong for one and a half years. Some people were irritated that I started it.

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[quote]BrickHead wrote:
I am surprised this thread is going strong for one and a half years. Some people were irritated that I started it. [/quote]

It’s like those movies or books the “experts” laughed at when they first came out but turned out to be important. I’ve no idea what causes palumboism but enjoy reading differing opinions.

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[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Does anyone have any insight as to what causes this condition? We know that it’s definitely caused by large concoctions of drugs through the years, but does anyone have any plausible theories on the physiology of the condition, perhaps someone with a medical background with a high degree of knowledge on bodybuilding drugs?[/quote]
Shadow Pro, a current IFBB pro who’s competed in the Olympia gave his thoughts on this in his thread recently.

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[quote]georgos wrote:
With regard to the theory about prolonged heavy exercise, how come palumboism hasn’t been inflicted upon powerlifters or weighlifters?[/quote]

Powerlifters tend to be fat and stay fat essentially stretching fascia whereas pro bodybuilders don’t (cutting down to -8% bodyfat…). Plus powerlifters train differently to bodybuilders i.e. different exercise selection and a lot less volume. Again this is all speculation but interesting nonetheless