Pad Holding Has Become a Joke

Bigger Stronger Leaner
41

While I agree there is probably some element of choreography to the mayweather padwork, just because we don’t understand its purpose doesn’t render it ineffective IMO.

Roger was a cracking fighter, and Floyd Jr arguably might be the best boxer of the modern era. There is obviously some fundamental purpose it serves. To the point - pascal always struck me as a fighter with terrible balance and a lack of fluidity, he’s strong and he’s fast, but learning to improve his work rate and maintaining good position while firing combinations is probably something he will learn from such a drill.

42

You’re probably right. I just flat out don’t like the dude, and that probably colours my opinion of his training. That said, I think there is a world of difference in the quality of padwork you see Roach doing. Going to put it out there, but if you gave 2 year old Floyd to Freddie, and gave him the same opportunity Roger had to spend a lifetime creating a fighter, you would have a more effective and more exciting all-round fighter. This is obviously pure speculation and something that I can in no way substantiate. I stand by it.

43

Probably yeah, I suppose there has always been a point of some contention as to just how much impact Roger had on Floyd Jr as a fighter, compared to Floyd Sr’s impact in his formative years.

Curious, why don’t you like Roger? Or do you just dislike the mayweather clan in general?

44

I think he’s a better trainer than Floyd Sr., and he’s obviously a very able trainer, but I just think he lacks class, and while I can forgive that in a kid who suddenly finds himself on top of the world coming from nothing, I can’t forgive it in a guy old enough to have learned some manners. I appreciate that this is not a particularly good reason to dislike someone where my only contact with them is youtube.

I actually quite like Floyd Jr., and I think he gets a worse rap as a person than he deserves. From what I hear (indirectly) from guys I know who have been out to spar with him, he’s a pretty decent bloke by and large when the cameras stop rolling. I would respect him more as a fighter though if he fought more and/or took greater risks, although I can understand how the motivation must fade.

I don’t personally rank him as the greatest fighter of the modern era, although I may be using different standards. I rank Hopkins as the greatest fighter of our era, for numerous, boring reasons that I won’t derail the thread with.

45

^a bunch more videos of Roger Mayweather…

i’m not boxer, but it seems like his pad work isn’t designed to set up target striking or full extension… obviously he was a great boxer and has a great reputation as a trainer (and i’m not/don’t), but it seems to me, that it would be challenging to train under him unless you started under his system…

46

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
I actually quite like Floyd Jr., and I think he gets a worse rap as a person than he deserves. From what I hear (indirectly) from guys I know who have been out to spar with him, he’s a pretty decent bloke by and large when the cameras stop rolling. I would respect him more as a fighter though if he fought more and/or took greater risks, although I can understand how the motivation must fade.

I don’t personally rank him as the greatest fighter of the modern era, although I may be using different standards. I rank Hopkins as the greatest fighter of our era, for numerous, boring reasons that I won’t derail the thread with. [/quote]

I should’ve made more of an emphasis on the boxer part, I don’t consider him the greatest fighter per se of the modern era, but I think he makes a good case for best pure boxer of the modern era if we hold to the standard of the ability to hit and not be hit, and of course his thus far perfect record.

I have heard Roger has a bit of a venomous reputation, and he certainly seems to come across that way in his demeanor sometimes. Dana White tells a story of a 40 year old roger mayweather taking issue with another guy in his gym and pretty much beating the fuck out of him in the ring.

47

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

^a bunch more videos of Roger Mayweather…

i’m not boxer, but it seems like his pad work isn’t designed to set up target striking or full extension… obviously he was a great boxer and has a great reputation as a trainer (and i’m not/don’t), but it seems to me, that it would be challenging to train under him unless you started under his system…[/quote]

Ye, that’s definitely part of the point I was trying to make, that if a fighter has to retrain just to be able to hit the pads with him, then there’s something off about his style of pad holding. That said, I actually don’t believe that they do that sort of padwork most of the time. I reckon that is all choreographed routines they bring out to look flash when the cameras role. I don’t believe Floyd could be the extraordinary technical fighter he is, with near perfect judgement of range and timing that he has, by training in that style on the pads.

When you’re in the gym as often and for as long as a pro fighter is, the number one problem I imagine is boredom, and going stale or losing intensity as a result. That style of padwork must be satisfying as hell to do for a couple of rounds when you’re sick of the gym, and you can still know you’re moving aspects of your training, like conditioning, forwards. I suspect its a lot like the speedball. It’s fun, and people make up reasons why it’s a useful bit of kit, but ultimately it’s just a bit of fun that breaks things up.

48

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
I actually quite like Floyd Jr., and I think he gets a worse rap as a person than he deserves. From what I hear (indirectly) from guys I know who have been out to spar with him, he’s a pretty decent bloke by and large when the cameras stop rolling. I would respect him more as a fighter though if he fought more and/or took greater risks, although I can understand how the motivation must fade.

I don’t personally rank him as the greatest fighter of the modern era, although I may be using different standards. I rank Hopkins as the greatest fighter of our era, for numerous, boring reasons that I won’t derail the thread with. [/quote]

I should’ve made more of an emphasis on the boxer part, I don’t consider him the greatest fighter per se of the modern era, but I think he makes a good case for best pure boxer of the modern era if we hold to the standard of the ability to hit and not be hit, and of course his thus far perfect record.

I have heard Roger has a bit of a venomous reputation, and he certainly seems to come across that way in his demeanor sometimes. Dana White tells a story of a 40 year old roger mayweather taking issue with another guy in his gym and pretty much beating the fuck out of him in the ring.[/quote]

Ye best pure boxer is hard to argue with. And he was an exciting fighter at lightweight, which is definitely less common for a pure boxer, and doesn’t get him enough credit.

Roger, on the other hand, can suck a dick.

49

I am so looking forward to FigthinIrish’s take on this:

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
You’re probably right. I just flat out don’t like the dude, and that probably colours my opinion of his training. That said, I think there is a world of difference in the quality of padwork you see Roach doing. Going to put it out there, but if you gave 2 year old Floyd to Freddie, and gave him the same opportunity Roger had to spend a lifetime creating a fighter, you would have a more effective and more exciting all-round fighter. This is obviously pure speculation and something that I can in no way substantiate. I stand by it. [/quote]

and this:

If he doesn’t chime in soon I am linking this to his log.

Regards,

Robert A

50

Well, I half agree and half disagree with London.

I think that Roger’s padwork, when done with Floyd, is exaggerated for the show. He and his nephew are cut from the same mold and they both been boxing all their lives, so doing padwork like that is probably more of an exercise in familiarity between the two of them than anything else.

That being said, I think Roger’s padwork with Pascal actually looks pretty good. I mean, it’s basically just 232-cover-cover-232332 blah blah blah - but it’s done QUICK. And if you watch Floyd fight, especially back in his younger and lighter days, his combos when he’s attacking pretty much looked identical.

Watch this fight and tell me you don’t see those exact combos in there, just done slower sometimes:

But really, go watch that video with Pascal - the fact that he covers with BOTH hands and pulls straight back when Roger flips a little counter 2 back at him tells me that he wasn’t trained all that well in the first place, and that Roger is probably onto something in trying to get him to just cover with one hand and turn back into the counter punch with the other.

I have a lot of respect for Roger. He was a great fighter and a world champ in his own right, and he’s trained Floyd to do the same - even if he was kinda handed the million-dollar baby, he hasn’t fucked him up, and Floyd wouldn’t keep him if he didn’t think he knew what he was doing.

That ALL being said, padwork isn’t really that important in the grand scheme of things anyway. Lots of great fighters learned to box without ever touching a focus mitt, and it’s really something that is totally overblown nowadays cause it does look so good for the cameras.

51

[quote]humble wrote:
Yep you can take a 1 day course and you’re a qualified pad holder, start ripping dumb cunts in offices 60-100 an hour for training and you’re a machine gun pad holder.

Before you think I am slagging MMA in general, I am not. I don’t mind it, I enjoy it at times too but I thoroughly hate the bullshit that it has also spread with it’s popularity and the injustice it has done to stand up arts.

My main beef is with pad holding.

More and more have I noticed that people don’t hit pads any more. They actually have their pad holders hit their gloves. They barely move their arms and legs with true technique to hit a target, rather the ‘pad holder’ throws out and catches the gloves. Pad holder gets more of a work out and the sound of machine gun rattatatat as the fighter hits pads makes them look like they’re decent stand up fighters.

Big Fucken LOL.

Before you get your knickers in a knot, I understand the concept of catching a punch or kick but what is now happening is a joke. Pad holders are meeting the trainee 1/4 of the distance through the trainees technique. What you have is short, ineffective, bullshit technique that cannot be applied at all in any fight scenario, even in close range fighting because the mechanics are completely out!

So fuck you MMA popularity. You’re making stand up look bad, spreading bigger bullshit with your hocus pocus pad work sessions and your fighters are countable on one hand that actually have decent stand up. Holy shit that’s some bad numbers. All the world MMA pool and you can count the decent stand up guys on one hand.

Oh sorry, I know the answer… yeah, yeah, yeah, you have to concentrate so much on not being taken down. I get it. Same excuse every time so that justifies the dog shit stand up work in MMA.

No one can watch any MMA guy or girl punch pads for hours because their is no art or beauty, skill or technique in what they do. So we have trumped up highlight reels from fucked up camera angles to hide their flaws. Documentaries that jump from scene to scene, mixed with music to arouse, angles to please and imagery to excite all because they lack the skill to properly display a still camera view of a guys technique.

One that comes to mind is when they were heralding Jake Shields as working on his stand up when he fought St Pierre. LMMAAAOO, that camera work hahahah, those snippets… poor guy still looked like dog shit in the doco’s.

Anyway, rant over. [/quote]

Sorry, but plenty of guys were ripping fools off for some cardio kickboxing long before MMA came onto the scene. It’s not like they invented it. You do seem to have quite a lot of pent up anger towards MMA though, it doesn’t mean your pretty ass striking wouldn’t get you taken down and pounded out by some bloke with dog shit stand up

52

[quote]

Sorry, but plenty of guys were ripping fools off for some cardio kickboxing long before MMA came onto the scene. It’s not like they invented it. You do seem to have quite a lot of pent up anger towards MMA though, it doesn’t mean your pretty ass striking wouldn’t get you taken down and pounded out by some bloke with dog shit stand up[/quote]

Yeah but faggot love for MMA has exacerbated it. Was bad before now it is atrocious. Fuck MMA

53

[quote]humble wrote:

[quote]

Sorry, but plenty of guys were ripping fools off for some cardio kickboxing long before MMA came onto the scene. It’s not like they invented it. You do seem to have quite a lot of pent up anger towards MMA though, it doesn’t mean your pretty ass striking wouldn’t get you taken down and pounded out by some bloke with dog shit stand up[/quote]

Yeah but faggot love for MMA has exacerbated it. Was bad before now it is atrocious. Fuck MMA[/quote]

humble,

You doing ok?

Normally I find your posts kind of refreshingly brusque, but there seems to be some genuine vitriol in the last couple.

Regards,

Robert A

54

I thought they brought the bag toward the strike to simulate someone leaning/moving towards the strike which can break a beginners wrist.

55

[quote]Robert A wrote:

[quote]humble wrote:

[quote]

Sorry, but plenty of guys were ripping fools off for some cardio kickboxing long before MMA came onto the scene. It’s not like they invented it. You do seem to have quite a lot of pent up anger towards MMA though, it doesn’t mean your pretty ass striking wouldn’t get you taken down and pounded out by some bloke with dog shit stand up[/quote]

Yeah but faggot love for MMA has exacerbated it. Was bad before now it is atrocious. Fuck MMA[/quote]

humble,

You doing ok?

Normally I find your posts kind of refreshingly brusque, but there seems to be some genuine vitriol in the last couple.

Regards,

Robert A[/quote]

I’m cool Rob

I just hate societal MMA.

I’m just getting fed up with the MMA band wagon. Really, it started as a great idea once upon a time and has now been watered down to mass media hype.

I’m constantly surrounded by an environment of tapout t shirt wearing faggots. There isn’t a local gym within 10km of my area that one can lift their head up and say ‘wow, serious fighters train here.’
There are 50 or so that all teach MMA and Moooey Tie. Just disappointed in humanity’s level of tolerance for bullshit. It has dwindled and they are much more accepting of it.
MMA is part of that bullshit.

56

[quote]humble wrote:

[quote]Robert A wrote:

[quote]humble wrote:

[quote]

Sorry, but plenty of guys were ripping fools off for some cardio kickboxing long before MMA came onto the scene. It’s not like they invented it. You do seem to have quite a lot of pent up anger towards MMA though, it doesn’t mean your pretty ass striking wouldn’t get you taken down and pounded out by some bloke with dog shit stand up[/quote]

Yeah but faggot love for MMA has exacerbated it. Was bad before now it is atrocious. Fuck MMA[/quote]

humble,

You doing ok?

Normally I find your posts kind of refreshingly brusque, but there seems to be some genuine vitriol in the last couple.

Regards,

Robert A[/quote]

I’m cool Rob

I just hate societal MMA.

I’m just getting fed up with the MMA band wagon. Really, it started as a great idea once upon a time and has now been watered down to mass media hype.

I’m constantly surrounded by an environment of tapout t shirt wearing faggots. There isn’t a local gym within 10km of my area that one can lift their head up and say ‘wow, serious fighters train here.’
There are 50 or so that all teach MMA and Moooey Tie. Just disappointed in humanity’s level of tolerance for bullshit. It has dwindled and they are much more accepting of it.
MMA is part of that bullshit.[/quote]

Yea… the fans are the reason I hate MMA.

I saw this coming on about six or eight years ago when a shitload of guys who aren’t fighters started wearing Tapout shirts and suddenly everyone in every bar was “trying to get into UFC.”

I said, to myself, “Self, now THIS is a craze you can hate.”

57

[quote]humble wrote:

I’m cool Rob

I just hate societal MMA.

I’m just getting fed up with the MMA band wagon. Really, it started as a great idea once upon a time and has now been watered down to mass media hype.

I’m constantly surrounded by an environment of tapout t shirt wearing faggots. There isn’t a local gym within 10km of my area that one can lift their head up and say ‘wow, serious fighters train here.’
There are 50 or so that all teach MMA and Moooey Tie. Just disappointed in humanity’s level of tolerance for bullshit. It has dwindled and they are much more accepting of it.
MMA is part of that bullshit.[/quote]

As far as the MMA masses go, that is how it has always been. When I was growing up everyone “did” or “knew” Boxing, or Karate/Kung Fu/Whatever. Usually this knowledge came from shadow boxing or throwing about 3 punches a day in front of the mirror. Sometimes it came from slap fighting a few friends and convincing themselves that they could box. Those of us who were busy training just kind of shut up about it and went on with life.

Thanks to its popularity now the posers claim MMA or Muay Thai. Just smile and nod. Actually, bring up hand wraps or protective cups. Watching someone “err and ummmm” about shit everyone who has spent more than a month in a gym would know about can be entertaining.

Final note on dealing with the idiots. Relax, breath, and keep watching them. There is an undeniable possibility, not a probability mind you, but a possibility that they will do something to set themselves on fire. Likely? No, but certainly possible. And you wouldn’t want to miss THAT. Things like that make it worth showing up for life every day.

I am glad your doing ok. Normally I just think of you as this guy:

but with a better jab-jab-low kick combination.

On a serious note, if there is anything going on and you want to talk about it with someone I have an e-mail account listed on my hub. I can’t claim anything more than being an ear(well set of eyes reading an e-mail), but the offer stands if you want it.

Regards,

Robert A

58

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

Yea… the fans are the reason I hate MMA.

I saw this coming on about six or eight years ago when a shitload of guys who aren’t fighters started wearing Tapout shirts and suddenly everyone in every bar was “trying to get into UFC.”

I said, to myself, “Self, now THIS is a craze you can hate.”

[/quote]

Awesome.

Although I think someone is just pissy about how good the glitter flames/Affliction art make my “side abs” look.

Regards,

Robert A

59

“Final note on dealing with the idiots. Relax, breath, and keep watching them. There is an undeniable possibility, not a probability mind you, but a possibility that they will do something to set themselves on fire. Likely? No, but certainly possible. And you wouldn’t want to miss THAT. Things like that make it worth showing up for life every day.”

Great Quote, Robert.

My mental exercise is to think of idiots as visting an exotic zoo, like something from a Frank Herbert novel, watching their actions and listening to their banter. This is a technique I had have honed to perfection in airports.

60

[quote]idaho wrote:
My mental exercise is to think of idiots as visting an exotic zoo, like something from a Frank Herbert novel, watching their actions and listening to their banter. This is a technique I had have honed to perfection in airports.
[/quote]

Works on the internet too.