Pad Holding Has Become a Joke

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
I wish I could take credit for the wet noodles, but the glory belongs to that bastard Aussie Davo for that turn of phrase.[/quote]

Haha! Like I said in my post, my wife has been using that phrase for the past 5 years since she has been training with me regularly, and then having people other than me hold pads for her in “cardio” classes. Funny that Aussie came up with the same term. [/quote]

Your wife sounds awesome

[quote]idaho wrote:
Good discussion. What drives me crazy is someone who starts a class, works for a few months, thinks they are getting good,and then when they try to learn how to hold pads, they act “scared”. like LB said, turning into “wet noodles”. Christ, that drives me up the wall. You want to learn how to fight and you are a pussy behind the pads? LOL…ranting. [/quote]

IMO, pad holding should be taught slowly and methodically, just like punching. I generally teach people how to hold for a jab first, discussing the need for a properly braced position, angled forearm, where to catch the punch in the pad, the need for some counter pressure/force in some cases (all of which will vary depending on the type of pads). Once they’ve got that down I’ll teach them how to catch the straight rear hand, then the head hook, and so on.

Expecting people to learn how to catch 4-5 different punches right off the bat is just as unrealistic as expecting them to learn how to throw 4-5 types of punches correctly right off the bat. Yet I see people being expected to do just that in a lot of MA classes and “cardio” classes.

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
I wish I could take credit for the wet noodles, but the glory belongs to that bastard Aussie Davo for that turn of phrase.[/quote]

Haha! Like I said in my post, my wife has been using that phrase for the past 5 years since she has been training with me regularly, and then having people other than me hold pads for her in “cardio” classes. Funny that Aussie came up with the same term. [/quote]

Your wife sounds awesome[/quote]

She is. :slight_smile:

I’ve kind of turned her into a “snob” in terms of who she is willing to hit the pads with (her words) though. But I can’t really blame her. Hitting the pads with someone who really knows what they are doing is one of the best workouts and most fun things you can do, but hitting the pads with someone who is bad with them can be one of the most frustrating IMO.

hehe

I have often wondered about pad holding as well. I learned pad holding and focus mitt drills originally in Krav. Very basic, limited movement. I don’t know if in the later levels like 4 or higher if they get into it or not. Seems like not. However I have learned a bit at my current school and have asked a lot of questions because I see other guys hitting pads and it looks awesome.

I have also wondered about why some people hit on the same side with a left and a a right etc. When I saw this video I wanted somebody to hold for me like this. Hasn’t happened yet.

Critique this video please

You can hit the same pad with the 1-2, depending on what you are trying to achieve with a combination, and where you are trying to put the power. For example, if I am getting a fighter to step in behind the jab, I will have him throw the 1 at one pad and the 2 at the other pad. If I am getting him to probe with the jab and step in behind the right, I will get a fighter to find the pad with the 1, then hit through it with the 2.

As I say, depends where you are trying to get the fighter to put the emphasis within a combination. All part of keeping your opponent off balance and guessing. So to continue, if they are stepping in behind the right, I want them to be able to focus on getting a nice, clean crisp (not necessarily hard) connection with the 3 on the second pad.

One criticism of the video above, although I’ve only watched the first two minutes, is that the trainer seems to be holding the pads at a level that is comfortable for him. Not necessarily a problem in itself as long as he doesn’t do it all the time, however, it is causing the fighter to punch down and the coach is not picking him up for it. He should, obviously, be punching in a straight line from his shoulder by sitting down more on his punches, and bending his legs more.

No wonder you guys don’t like the way I hit focus mitts…LOL. I can def. see the importance of holding pads and working towards a particular goal.

Also I do thinkg there could be vast improvements in the striking for MMA even on the pro levels, the striking is never going to look like it does on boxin or kick boxing really. There are so many other possibilities in a fight that you cannot be as strict with your hands for the most part. I am not disagreing with what Humble has said at all but from practice I can say that trying to look like a boxer in a MMA fight wil lead to your demise. Also there is so much to be good at such as clinching/wrestling aspects, groundfigting on and on it is easy to be a jack of all trades master of none. This is the reason I stated in a different thread the best way to go is to become very very proficient in one discipline and build the others from there and use your primary style to compliment the others adn the more you learn the stronger you will become as a fighter.

That being said I think most could benefit from better padwork and that a number of MMA guy just think that a big ass bitch slap will knock a guy out or you can stun him and take him down winning the fight. I tend to focus on my standup and been working off my back for a couple years now. I don’t care where the fight goes now so I can use better, closer striking and kicks without fear. Wresting is also becoming more and more part of my game wich compliments my jiu jitsu. I think most MMA guys are the othe way around and this leads to the nasty striking

[quote]humble wrote:
Yep you can take a 1 day course and you’re a qualified pad holder, start ripping dumb cunts in offices 60-100 an hour for training and you’re a machine gun pad holder.
[/quote]

humble,

I think I just figured out how your kids are going to be able to pay for any undergrad and graduate university/college they want.

Sort of a glass is half full kind of deal.

Otherwise agree.

Regards,

Robert A

[quote]balancefitness wrote:
hey humble, where are you going to be holding the 2013 pad holding convention this year? [/quote]

Should I gather from your screen name and avatar that this and any possible posts are representing the public opinion of a professional entity?

In other words, was making the above statement conductive to the goals of the account?

I don’t know why the notion that a great many people are training in such a way that they are spending considerable time and effort(plus financial resources) to train in such a way that they fight worse would be anything but vexing. In other words people are working hard to suck at striking, and that is not a great thing. humble is suggesting that they instead put the effort into sucking less. You know, so that their effort works towards their assumed goal of becoming better.

The time spent hitting pads is spent so that we might better be able to deal with someone who is doing their level best to knock our dicks stiff. The presumption is that these skills will be tested against someone(s) who does not have our well being at heart. Someone who IS NOT ON OUR SIDE. That’s just the nature of it. However, if our trainer(s) are doing a poor job, than they aren’t on our side either. And if we don’t evaluate this stuff, they we aren’t even on our own fucking side. How’s that going to work?

Speaking of sides: If you created your account to be a presence for a professional entity, than maybe you would be best served by considering what you want to get out of your posts. If you have a differing opinion of proper technique, please voice it. If you have a different perspective on goals or priorities that is good as well. The last fucking thing any of us want is an echo chamber. However, I don’t know if self marketing with drive by snarkiness is going to help YOUR goals.

Regards,

Robert A

Here’s a good freestyle pad holder, catches almost everything

[quote]balancefitness wrote:
hey humble, where are you going to be holding the 2013 pad holding convention this year? [/quote]

I seem to recall a putz who was here a while ago attempting to sell us on a magical vibrating platform that would make us all the super badasses we could be, if we only understood balance.

You wouldn’t by chance be he, back for another round? If you are, this sales pitch is even worse than your last.

I wonder if this balance fitness isn’t just a bot like explained in this thread… scroll down a couple of posts to challer1

or it could be spk from conditioning thread who posts in the same way headhunter does in gal and politics

Pad holding is a pet peeve of mine. I try to be supportive and tactful in the gym, but holding pads like a fuckin jackass is one of the few things that will get me say “Dude, you hold pads like a fuckin jackass.”

[quote]treco wrote:

I wonder if this balance fitness isn’t just a bot like explained in this thread… scroll down a couple of posts to challer1

or it could be spk from conditioning thread who posts in the same way headhunter does in gal and politics[/quote]

Good point

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
Don’t disagree at all, but my rant would be more along the other end of the spectrum with people holding pads like wet noodles.

I like the way Roach does padwork, I think the guy holding the pads should be almost as involved as the guy doing the punching. The focus on trying to get a dominant angle here and avoid the most common counters here I really like:

Roach training Van Damme (Notice how much slower GSP is in 16oz gloves? I don’t think most people realize just how big a difference bigger gloves impacts on your speed and power, shit if boxing and MT/K1 had 4oz gloves I guarantee we’d rarely see fights go further than first or second round)

Melvin and mike:

And as an aside, anyone who thinks the Mayweather padwork is easy to master, it aint:

[/quote]

maybe I’m weird, but I hate how Mayweather holds pads… he seems more concerned in teaching people his choreography than anything else (from that video)…

but I love the other videos, though!

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
Don’t disagree at all, but my rant would be more along the other end of the spectrum with people holding pads like wet noodles.

I like the way Roach does padwork, I think the guy holding the pads should be almost as involved as the guy doing the punching. The focus on trying to get a dominant angle here and avoid the most common counters here I really like:

Roach training Van Damme (Notice how much slower GSP is in 16oz gloves? I don’t think most people realize just how big a difference bigger gloves impacts on your speed and power, shit if boxing and MT/K1 had 4oz gloves I guarantee we’d rarely see fights go further than first or second round)

Melvin and mike:

And as an aside, anyone who thinks the Mayweather padwork is easy to master, it aint:

[/quote]

maybe I’m weird, but I hate how Mayweather holds pads… he seems more concerned in teaching people his choreography than anything else (from that video)…

but I love the other videos, though![/quote]

Isn’t Mayweather doing a give and take drill? Pascal fires a combo, then Mayweather would throw a counter to his combo and Pascal has to be ready for it.

^yeah, it kinda seems like it, but i firmly believe the pad holder needs to set up the strike. if i hit wrong because the target isn’t presented right, then it’s not my fault-i’m hitting what’s available. he seems to be trying to teach a certain sequence, at all costs…

of course, this is just what i see from that one video… i’ll do some diggin on the internet and see how i feel from other videos…

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
^yeah, it kinda seems like it, but i firmly believe the pad holder needs to set up the strike. if i hit wrong because the target isn’t presented right, then it’s not my fault-i’m hitting what’s available. he seems to be trying to teach a certain sequence, at all costs…

of course, this is just what i see from that one video… i’ll do some diggin on the internet and see how i feel from other videos…[/quote]

There’s definitely some truth to this. You can see from how Hatton fought when he was trained by Mayweather (the other one admittedly, but still, similar styles) that really it hadn’t jived with how he fought at all. I’ve always thought that Mayweather(s) is (are) all about being the star(s) of the show. Personally, I don’t think you should be having to teach a world champion fighter how to hit pads. If you are, there’s probably something wrong with how you’re holding them. All well and good if a fighter is struggling because you are trying to teach them how to fight out of an awkward or new situation, but if Pascal is struggling to go through basic pad drills, I’d say his time is being wasted by the trainer.

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
^yeah, it kinda seems like it, but i firmly believe the pad holder needs to set up the strike. if i hit wrong because the target isn’t presented right, then it’s not my fault-i’m hitting what’s available. he seems to be trying to teach a certain sequence, at all costs…

of course, this is just what i see from that one video… i’ll do some diggin on the internet and see how i feel from other videos…[/quote]

There’s definitely some truth to this. You can see from how Hatton fought when he was trained by Mayweather (the other one admittedly, but still, similar styles) that really it hadn’t jived with how he fought at all. I’ve always thought that Mayweather(s) is (are) all about being the star(s) of the show. Personally, I don’t think you should be having to teach a world champion fighter how to hit pads. If you are, there’s probably something wrong with how you’re holding them. All well and good if a fighter is struggling because you are trying to teach them how to fight out of an awkward or new situation, but if Pascal is struggling to go through basic pad drills, I’d say his time is being wasted by the trainer. [/quote]

It somewhat depends on why the coach is having them do that specific pad drill though.

Joe Lewis developed 12 “fight sequences” (several named after fighters who Lewis felt embodied a specific skill set or trait) for his system; each one designed to develop and/or hone a specific skill set in a fighter. For instance, the “Benny Briscoe” is all about inside fighting (“trench fighting” as Joe used to often refer to it), while the “Ali” is all about maintaining distance and fighting from the outside.

Each fighting sequence can take a little while before someone (even a world champion) really gets it and can perform it with “combat movement” (a combination of realistic speed and attitude), but once you get them, you will have noticed that whatever skill set that sequence was designed to develop will have improved.

So, it’s possible that Mayweather saw something missing in Pascal’s game and felt that sequence would help him to improve it. Or, perhaps you are right and he does that sequence with everyone and it’s just about showing off his skills with the mitts.

Ye, I agree completely, there’s no doubt that good padwork should be developing qualities that a fighter doesnt have, or hasn’t got much of. In such circumstances, any fighter will struggle initially. The point I was trying to make is that there is a big difference between learning to fight in or against a different style, and learning to hit the pads in a different style. Mayweather, from what I can tell, is focused on teaching Pascal how to hit pads in a way that suits Roger, not teaching Pascal how to be effective or better in or against a different style.

In my experience, if someone is good on the pads, it takes no time at all to make minor adjustments to what you already know, as far as making clean contact on standard combinations goes. The only times I can think of that I have been frustrated, other than when I have been struggling to learn a new technique, combo, etc, have been where the pad holder has been patting my punches, or trying to be too flash.