P-22 Test Tapering Thread

Pharma
141

[quote]Anthony Roberts wrote:
In the end, it’s speculation that’s at the heart of this. it’s pure speculation that x amount of weeks at y dose will allow z amount of your natural hormonal levels to come back. None of the resesarch provided supports it, unless you make huge leaps of logic.

Tapering, for the most part, has been abandoned (*with good reason) by AAS users everywhere.[/quote]

Couldn’t disagree more. Tapering for most drugs:

  1. Is not rocket science

  2. Is not new

  3. can help reduce or eliminate side effects and withdrawls

i have probably not read nearly as many books as P #22 or Mr. Roberts. However, this is really not that complicated. the body simply does not respond well to huge drops in dosage with most drugs.

142

[quote]honkie wrote:

Hey punk, we are yet to see any photo’s of yourself and any video of you lifting. Why don’t you step up to the plate and post them.

Better yet post your address and we’ll come see for ourselves.
[/quote]

Well I hope by we you mean you . We is a punk word . How about you post your address and I’ll see you . Fatboy !

143

[quote]juice20jd wrote:
JJ…

bro…have a little respect and keep on topic. there is a thread in this forum for people like you to vent in…keep that type of stuff confined to there.

This thread is about P-22’s taper theory. if you have a beef with the method and have an intelligent response/question, do so…like a few others have. nothing wrong with intelligent discussion (AR acheives this most of the time with his posts…which is good for a thread like this)…but what you’re doing is BS.

and you also made a comment about “not being stupid enough to juice”…yet you hug Anthony’s balls in this thread a little…and guess what…he juices…a lot. think about it you hypocrite.

just no reason to make personal attacks and insults and shit on that level without just provocation, and you have received none. keep the jihad confined to the other thread.

[/quote]

Alright ! But you took that dumb enough to juice thing out of context . There is nothing for me to learn about steroids that’s better then not doing them .

144

[quote]Tin Can wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
Tin Can - I could be wrong, but I think Trailrash was actually refering to our mutual friend jjay, not yourself…

Well damn, if that’s the case, I offer my sincere apologies to Trailtrash. I guess I get confused when alot of us quote the text someone wrote and reply, then somoene quotes your reply with the previous texts, I’m not sure who the response was being directed at. So I guess that makes me the dipshit! It did seem weird for someone to defend another who keeps putting his foot in his mouth. But then again, you never know… Again, sorry dude!
[/quote]

Bushidobadboy is right, it was intended for jjay. No problem man. I would have been fired up if that comment was directed at me as well without it being warranted.

145

[quote]Anthony Roberts wrote:
In the end, it’s speculation that’s at the heart of this. it’s pure speculation that x amount of weeks at y dose will allow z amount of your natural hormonal levels to come back. None of the resesarch provided supports it, unless you make huge leaps of logic.

Tapering, for the most part, has been abandoned (*with good reason) by AAS users everywhere.[/quote]

AR,
Didn’t you try DNP for a week just to see what it would do? Why not try a test taper? If for no other reason than for the scientific value of it. Its no crazier than the DNP thing and you could make another article out of it.

146

How do guys like ronnie colman and them do it ? You guys should probably just copy them .

147

[quote]jjay wrote:
I am only defending myself from bushboy and the rest of them to for that matter. I was only kidding about p#22.Those jokes were from meet the parents .[/quote]

You need to stay out of this conversation dumbass…Its about respect here and you obviously don’t know what the hell that is.

148

[quote]JWpushheavy wrote:
jjay wrote:
I am only defending myself from bushboy and the rest of them to for that matter. I was only kidding about p#22.Those jokes were from meet the parents .

You need to stay out of this conversation dumbass…Its about respect here and you obviously don’t know what the hell that is.

[/quote]

You need to take your own advice !

You see Juice !

150

[quote]jjay wrote:
JWpushheavy wrote:
jjay wrote:
I am only defending myself from bushboy and the rest of them to for that matter. I was only kidding about p#22.Those jokes were from meet the parents .

You need to stay out of this conversation dumbass…Its about respect here and you obviously don’t know what the hell that is.

You need to take your own advice !

You see Juice ![/quote]

O.k. Bro, I have been nice to you. I have taken all your questions quite seriously and spent good time answering them. I have done this dispite your earlier shots you took at me.

I understand you using AAS is not your thing. That’s great, we all get that, and that is you decision. The others here have decided differently a long time ago, and are now here to work together toward finding the most healthiest and productive ways possible towards achieving their goals.

There isn’t any way you can reconvert them to being natural again.

So with that being said I am asking you to Chill bro, just chill.

151

[quote]Anthony Roberts wrote:
In the end, it’s speculation that’s at the heart of this. it’s pure speculation that x amount of weeks at y dose will allow z amount of your natural hormonal levels to come back. None of the resesarch provided supports it, unless you make huge leaps of logic.

Tapering, for the most part, has been abandoned (*with good reason) by AAS users everywhere.[/quote]

Just so all know this is a statement of your opinion. Your argumentative style has become quit evident. You like to pick on small details that often are not even important, and twist the arguments around. What you did to Bush is a good example.

when you say ‘*with good reason’ -what do you mean by this? that the Average AAS user actually knows what the hell he is doing? and that is your argument that the average AAS user knows better?

I guess going off AAS cold turkey is perferable, even though recovery is still impossible due to things like AAS levels that are still suppressive, your ‘lag time’ argument… e.t.c… This is all too insane!

You are only interested in your ego here, and the possiblility that you could very well be completely wrong eats away at you. Me, If I am wrong no biggie. My goal is in finding the healthiest and most successfull approach, and I believe quit firmly that I have found it.

Not only have I and others had success with this program, but the science of physiology and pharmocology back the theory, and so does the research.

When you first started arguing about this protocol you clearly stated that any amount of exogenous testosterone was 100% suppressive, and that you couldn’t begin recovery untill all was gone. That was the main point of clash between us. I have now proved you wrong, via research - The very research you claimed didn’t exsist. It doesn’t matter what blanket statement you make, you haven’t been able to come up with any proof that disproves my theory, and a lot of the initial doubters who had the guts to try the test taper have had great success. All have stated it was by far their best pct. Now that isn’t a fluke.

Now sorry if this form of pct isn’t ‘hard core’ enough for you.

Science is what it is, not what you want it to be.

152

[quote]Anthony Roberts wrote:
In the end, it’s speculation that’s at the heart of this. it’s pure speculation that x amount of weeks at y dose will allow z amount of your natural hormonal levels to come back. None of the resesarch provided supports it, unless you make huge leaps of logic.

Tapering, for the most part, has been abandoned (*with good reason) by AAS users everywhere.[/quote]

Hmmmmm… speculation is a good word for every PCT protocal out there(especially yours) considering reaserching steroid use for recreational purposes is illegal.

153

P22:

Studies can be used a number of ways, just like statistics. I found 2 specific AAS user studies that support HCG use for secondary hypogonadisim. As well as a shit load of others that support it as well. I am all about knowledge transfer, expierence and intelligent use. I may try the taper method someday myself…but I will keep my HCG handy…thanks for your contributions.

154

[quote]Over40 wrote:
P22:

Studies can be used a number of ways, just like statistics. I found 2 specific AAS user studies that support HCG use for secondary hypogonadisim. As well as a shit load of others that support it as well. I am all about knowledge transfer, expierence and intelligent use. I may try the taper method someday myself…but I will keep my HCG handy…thanks for your contributions.[/quote]

First off your studies are ‘case studies’ which hold little weight in the scientific/ medical community. Secondly there is little info on the subjects, as to whether they were eugonadic prior to their steroid cycles, and what they actually did take. Thirdly we don’t know exactly what their cause of suppression was and lastly their is no follow up, as to how these boys are doing down the road, as Hcg has a nasty tendency to cause late onset of lowered test levels.

I still don’t see a need for this compound in healthy individuals who were eugonadic prior to their cycle’s. The compound is best suited for ensuring continuation of the herd in Cattle.

It seems to be an easier drug for Md’s to use as it is not a schedualed medication…

Obviously as well these subjects didn’t keep their gains.

155

Hi P22!

I?m in for my first cycle (250 Test E E4D - 20 weeks). I?d like to use the test taper method (all the big guys in my gym have switched to tapering over the last few years). I have a few questions:

-what is the best way to find the right dose of adex? I?d start with 0,5 ED. Unfortunately I can?t seem to get my hands on liquid adex here in germany.

-I?d like to use masteron during the taper. I have 10ml of 100mg/ml. What protocol do you suggest?

Thanks for taking the time, P22!

156

I actually think I read that hcg is scheduled right alongside aas in the original legislation. HCG just does not have the media stigma attatched to it. MD’s would not have the knee jerk reaction for using it.

As far as the taper thing goes I think it will definetely be at least worth trying, but I just cannot see how you can argue with the 6 week waiting period. This part of the theory should be pretty self evident and I don’t know why I did not see it sooner. Things like deca are notorious for sticking around for a long time. And even a very small amount has been shown to be suppressive exactly as brought up by detractors. So using T until things clear out is logical, practical and smart. The only argument should be about length and esters. Or you could run short cycles with esterless compounds which are “so easy” to get a hold of and finnish off with prop. However I am still pretty sure that clearance time would be an issue.

Except for whining this has been a great thread for ideas and learning.

And if you are too smart to use aas please don’t harass the discussion in the STEROID forum. (and possibly if it would not be too awful much trouble please please please maybe not-you know-breed, passing these traits along to other generations of glorious defenders of freedom, justice and internet rock formations. cleanex is your best, best friend)

157

[quote]pitt wrote:

And if you are too smart to use aas please don’t harass the discussion in the STEROID forum. (and possibly if it would not be too awful much trouble please please please maybe not-you know-breed, passing these traits along to other generations of glorious defenders of freedom, justice and internet rock formations. cleanex is your best, best friend)[/quote]

Every time I try to get out they pull me back in !!!

I never realized that I could be to smart to do somthing and not smart enough at the same time . Juice on 22 ! And the rest of you , Good luck !!

X

158

[quote]CEHansen wrote:
Hi P22!

I?m in for my first cycle (250 Test E E4D - 20 weeks). I?d like to use the test taper method (all the big guys in my gym have switched to tapering over the last few years). I have a few questions:

-what is the best way to find the right dose of adex? I?d start with 0,5 ED. Unfortunately I can?t seem to get my hands on liquid adex here in germany.

-I?d like to use masteron during the taper. I have 10ml of 100mg/ml. What protocol do you suggest?

Thanks for taking the time, P22![/quote]

Use Adex conservatively.

.5 ed can actually be cut in half to eod.
get a pill cutter.

As for your taper:

If you decide to use masteron, then continue the adex at .5mg eod for 7 weeks.

use: masteron 50mg total per week for the first 4 weeks post cycle, This will be your waiting period while test levels fall.
then for the taper:

Masteron 50mg, and Test 50mg/ week 1

masteron 35mg, and test E 35mg/ week 2

masteron 35mg, and test E 35mg/ week 3

STOP the ADEX

masteron 25mg and test E 25mg/ week 4

masteron 25mg and test E 25mg/ week 5

masteron 12.5mg and test E 12.5 mg/ week 6

At this point you should be finished your taper.

If your masteron is the propinate version you will have to spit your weekly injections into two. Using an insulin needle or 1ml turburculin syringe will probably be neccessary to acurately dose.

159

Thanks! Just two small questions to make sure I get it right.

You wrote: [quote]use: masteron 50mg total per week for the first 4 weeks post cycle, This will be your waiting period while test levels fall.[/quote]

So no Test during those 4 weeks?

I?ll use 4ml of the 10 I have of Masteron during pct. What would be a good way in your opinion to incorporate the remaining 600mg in my 20 week test cycle?

160

[quote]CEHansen wrote:
Thanks! Just two small questions to make sure I get it right.

You wrote: use: masteron 50mg total per week for the first 4 weeks post cycle, This will be your waiting period while test levels fall.

So no Test during those 4 weeks?

I?ll use 4ml of the 10 I have of Masteron during pct. What would be a good way in your opinion to incorporate the remaining 600mg in my 20 week test cycle?

[/quote]

Yah, no test needed, since your main cyce was test only, you can get away with just using the masteron IMO untill the real taper begins.

As for the rest of the cycle, if you want to use it, just evenly spread out the doses.