Overtraining Cardio?

Training Over 35 Lifter
1

Yes, I took a break from my journal just to shake my routine up and not feel too beholden to my viewers (it seemed like a fair number of people, and I barely knew who).

I have been training largely like I last was posting, but have a nagging concern about cardio that has me coming off hiatus sooner than expected. I could post this in combat or conditioning, but I wonder if age is a significant factor here.

Cardio. I have in my program over the last couple of years been trying to stay consistent with rope skipping twice a week, 3 5 minute rounds, switching up foot patterns and intensity at each minute change as part of my boxing conditioning. I didn’t get told by anyone to do it, I just thought gunning for the MMA format because I thought it would be all the more merrier to achieve fitness results.

the problem is, the more I seem to keep consistent with the routine, the more I run out of energy doing actual boxing skills work, and the more times the rope catches on my toes doing the skipping. I have also been trying to keep watch just recently on my blood pressure and resting heart rate and find they seem to be rising, I have recently been more consistent with the skipping.

I wonder if it is ‘overtraining’ in a cardio perspective. I also in mid January bought myself a 30 dose bottle of a preworkout formula that includes nicotonic acid (nicotine?), just to see how it impacts my workouts. My deadlifting improved (but I am getting back to older numbers) and chinups are better than ever. I wonder if that is completely inappropriate for the type of training I am doing (boxing skills) and it is likely the answer to only use the stuff when I am deadlifting and chining, or should I fundamentally reduce rope skipping to 3 or 4 3 minute rounds, maybe twice a week?

I am 45 years old, and I generally eat a proper diet, so I thought to post here.

Edit: additionally, I don’t do any jogging, but do some travel by long walks, it varies. I also drink too much coffee, I wonder if that is a factor. the jogging I won’t do because of an old hamstring strain.

I cut out my Wednesday heavy bag drill, I now just warm up with a footwork drill, chinup, and rebound a medicine ball off a wall and catch it. I still do bag drill with other drills Monday and Friday, tuesday and thursday I skip and do drills culminating in double end ball work. Sunday I deadlift, Saturday off.

2

Nicotinic acid is niacin (vitamin B3). It is a potent vasodilator notorious for causing an intense ‘flush’ ~30 min after ingestion. It is an effective lipid-modifying agent, but is not commonly used anymore, because most people hate the flush, and other, better compounds are available. What else is in the ‘preworkout formula’?

3

Any sprints or any other intensive Cardio besides the boxing?

I would skip rope 20 secs on 10 off for 3 minutes .

As we get older we lose are explosive speed which should be trained more frequently but with less volume.

4

[quote]EyeDentist wrote:
Nicotinic acid is niacin (vitamin B3). It is a potent vasodilator notorious for causing an intense ‘flush’ ~30 min after ingestion. It is an effective lipid-modifying agent, but is not commonly used anymore, because most people hate the flush, and other, better compounds are available. What else is in the ‘preworkout formula’?[/quote]

thanks for attempting a response.

this is a ‘new’ product from PVL Essentials. Power UP preworkout “explosive strength supplement” “amplifies strength and power”. the reason I bought it is I got a sampler of a different product and decided to try this one, it was cheaper.

Medicinal ingredients:

Niacin/nicotonic acid 25mg
vitamin B6 (pyrodoxine HCL) 6mg

Full dosed strength & Power Complex 8,000 mg
Nano-Micronized patented creapure Creatine monohydrate betasyne Beta alanine; Micronized L-Arginine HCL (USP) Micronized taurine.

Other ingredients:

fuel stir 7,000 mg
Vextra-Maize plus (Waxy Maize starch), CAP-TRI Caplylic/capric triglyceride (MCT oil - Fractionated Coconut triglycerides), glucose Polymers (maltodextrin).

Hydra mineral matrix
Potassium Citrate, magnesium Oxide; tricalcium phosphate. 800mg

PH adjusting lactic acid buffering complex 700mg
Calcium Carbonate, sodium bicarbonate, calcium - 5- lactate monohydrate, magnesium glycerophosphate.

Phyre up blend 337 mg
buffered micronized cayenne extract (capsicum annum) cinnamon(cinnulin) raspberry ketones (razberi-K); quercetin; N-Acetyl-L Cysteine: astaxanthin

All natural flavouring: Citric acid, malic acid, silicon dioxide, sodium citrate, sodium chloride, red beet powder, blueberry powder, ascorbic acid, natural raspberry flavor, stevia.

5

[quote]FISCHER613 wrote:
Any sprints or any other intensive Cardio besides the boxing?

I would skip rope 20 secs on 10 off for 3 minutes .

As we get older we lose are explosive speed which should be trained more frequently but with less volume.[/quote]

Yes, age. Is that several 3 minute rounds?

6

5 rounds for skipping.

And I just re-read what you wrote and resting HR that is rising beyond your norm is one sign of over training.

When is the last time you took a full week off from training? If it has been for longer than 8 weeks and you have been training hard you might need a break. Especially if your sparring or hitting the heavy bag correctly.

7

[quote]DeadKong wrote:

[quote]EyeDentist wrote:
Nicotinic acid is niacin (vitamin B3). It is a potent vasodilator notorious for causing an intense ‘flush’ ~30 min after ingestion. It is an effective lipid-modifying agent, but is not commonly used anymore, because most people hate the flush, and other, better compounds are available. What else is in the ‘preworkout formula’?[/quote]

thanks for attempting a response.

this is a ‘new’ product from PVL Essentials. Power UP preworkout “explosive strength supplement” “amplifies strength and power”. the reason I bought it is I got a sampler of a different product and decided to try this one, it was cheaper.

Medicinal ingredients:

Niacin/nicotonic acid 25mg
vitamin B6 (pyrodoxine HCL) 6mg

Full dosed strength & Power Complex 8,000 mg
Nano-Micronized patented creapure Creatine monohydrate betasyne Beta alanine; Micronized L-Arginine HCL (USP) Micronized taurine.

Other ingredients:

fuel stir 7,000 mg
Vextra-Maize plus (Waxy Maize starch), CAP-TRI Caplylic/capric triglyceride (MCT oil - Fractionated Coconut triglycerides), glucose Polymers (maltodextrin).

Hydra mineral matrix
Potassium Citrate, magnesium Oxide; tricalcium phosphate. 800mg

PH adjusting lactic acid buffering complex 700mg
Calcium Carbonate, sodium bicarbonate, calcium - 5- lactate monohydrate, magnesium glycerophosphate.

Phyre up blend 337 mg
buffered micronized cayenne extract (capsicum annum) cinnamon(cinnulin) raspberry ketones (razberi-K); quercetin; N-Acetyl-L Cysteine: astaxanthin

All natural flavouring: Citric acid, malic acid, silicon dioxide, sodium citrate, sodium chloride, red beet powder, blueberry powder, ascorbic acid, natural raspberry flavor, stevia.[/quote]

The reason I asked was, I was wondering if it contained any ingredients that might account for your recent elevation in HR and BP. Niacin, AAs, sugars, creatine…nothing jumping out at me as a potent sympathomimetic or parasympatholytic (not that I’m claiming to be an authority on the subject, however).

Speaking of your HR and BP, are you checking them at the same time of day (ideally first thing upon awakening)?

Edit: Just saw Fischer’s comment above re HR–that’s the point I was heading toward with this line of inquiry.

8

Again, thanks for all answers so far.

I knew that an elevated heart rate was a symptom of overtraining. Last January 21 I was at the doctor for some reason and she tried to get me to decently relax for a blood pressure/heart rate test. She came up with 117/75 66BPM. that was fine, but not fine by my standards.

A few weeks ago I upon waking came up with 61BPM. Since then I have tried drugstore free machines that have obscene figures I doubt I should rely on. I might not be properly relaxed in the environment. Yesterday night after lying in bed for a while I came up with a best of 67 BPM. this morning I thought to take one upon waking, but was unsure if that was ideal until I already had got up to read Eyedentist’s advice. I got out of bed and sat on the toilet with the light on and after pissing came up with 67 BPM again.

Today is a lighter training day and I felt perfectly fine, even made progress.

I realize that other combat trainers jog, which I don’t, but also only skip a few likely 3 minute rounds a week, maybe I should take heed. I took a week off training about 4 or 5 weeks ago, so that isn’t it. I think I will hold off skipping again Friday next week and just do 3 3 minute rounds, high intensity each last minute, otherwise switch up foot patterns. If I don’t feel enthusiastic when that time comes around I will reduce the program to what Fischer suggested.

9

I know this thread is dragging on, but the last few days I have upon waking taken pulse and come up with: Friday 59 BPM Saturday 62 BPM Sunday 60 BPM
Saturday night, after lying in bed for a while but still not being sleepy: 65BPM.

I also notice that I am trying of late longer combinations on my heavy bag. I wonder if better attention to breathing control is the thing here. After Friday’s work I noticed the stand was moved significantly out of its original place. This is because I try too many power shots, maybe that is over doing it right there.

10

So in your current training state, your morning HR is 60. What we don’t know is whether you are currently in an overtrained state. Would suggest that, as you make adjustments to your training schedule, you continue to monitor your morning HR (objective data), your gym performance (ditto), and your impression regarding how ‘fresh’ you feel (subjective data). By seeing how these data sets track relative to one another over time, in short order you should be able to determine whether your present training load is overtaxing your recovery ability.

11

Holy crow, someone reach over the internet and keep me from slashing my wrists. I today decided that after not having done so after more than a year I would be curious and do a shoulder press test.

I figured that since my shoulder definition is great, I hit a heavy bag all the time, I should be able to repeat my old max of 185lbs. So i thought first to warmup with 135lbs. Murhpy me, I barely got it up once, and almost lost balance a few times.

But is that it, the balance I am no longer used to? Is not being used to stabilize that exact weight in an exact shoulder press format the thing, or is my shoulder strength likely gone all to Hell?

Edit: I am continuing to monitor heart rate and general energy level, and will report after a while.

12

Saturday, March 22, 2014

So these last number of days I have been collecting heart rate data.

Monday I forgot, maybe 62BPM

Tuesday 70BPM, I was still stoked after seeing live bands St. Paddy’s day.

Wednesday - thursday - Friday I awoke each morning by my bladder and didn’t think I could get a relaxed figure so I got up to piss and then got back in bed. around 64BPM each time, so botched figures.

Saturday 60BPM

I think this is a good figure. So I am at a constant likely good position, although realize that I took this past Tuesday and the previous Thursday off of skipping. I got back at it This past Thursday in a 3 rounds of 3 minutes format, not stopping and starting as Fischer had suggested, that would be for a worst case scenario I don’t think I landed in.

I have felt reasonable since last reporting in terms of piss and vinegar. As to training, I was thinking that my chinup of last couple of weeks was regressing, but yesterday I got back to doing as good as ever. One thing to note about bag drill is that I am doing more movement lately. that is, not just getting basic punching motions down pat but more bobbing and stepping over, which is more taxing.

Still, unless there is a consensus to disgree I will continue with twice weekly 3 rounds of 3 minutes for skipping, switching up foot patterns at each minute and ending each round with high intensity. if this allows maintenance of 60BPM I wonder if i should be happy, if it improves then there maybe was something to my original idea after all.

Edit: I finished the preworkout formula yesterday. I had a 30 dose container, 6 days a week, and I took a week off several weeks ago after only using it a week. As each serving had 8g of creatine, I will be off creatine for what? 1 week? 2 weeks? I have an old supply of it and wonder when to start a new cycle.

13

I am still attempting to monitor my condition with this thread. The problem is I have had a string of bad luck getting reliable just after waking resting heart rate figures. I seem to be woken up by my bladder and the nagging it gives me drives up my wakefullness and figures. The other day I forgot to pull an extra blanket over myself and had nightmares that I was lost in the Arctic, sort of. That ruined it right there.

Generally before I was getting 58BPM, which is excellent, but I have to get it below 57 to be considered athletic. I on thursday happened to take a figure late in the afternoon after having some quiet time in bed and achieved 64BPM, which is better than the above mentioned doctor’s office figure. So maybe that is a good indication.

I added back the Wednesday bag drill session, as I have scaled back rope skipping to 3 3 minute rounds twice a week. I when doing heavy bag drill, find I take breathers every now and then, but maybe that is to be expected for my reasonable expectation of performance. Wednesday and Thursday nights I slept poorly, which has been the exception of late, but seem to have done well with performance I video recorded, so maybe that is a relative good sign there.

I generally feel not too bad with ability, but I am taking this next week off, It occurs to me I haven’t since early February.

As to supplements, I am still experimenting with pre workout formulas. Last Saturday I bought a 30 dose thing of C4, which has caffeine and Beta Alanine, among other stuff. I am thinking it helps a bit, but a 3 minute round I wonder might be beyond its intended effect. I have been off Creatine for 2 weeks, my previous preworkout stuff had 8g a dose. After my week off here, I will cut into a loading phase of it, separate in time from taking the C4, with 10g per day the first week to load and 5g for the next 4 weeks for maintenance.

14

To conclude this thread. I took a week off shortly after my last post or so, and did some walking around and was generally up around 62BPM first thing in the day.

I then got back into training and found I was down around 59, which is sort of good. I have had runs of shitty readings for reasons I already detailed, but this morning I was at 57 and call myself happy, at least for the time being.

Training is now 2 bag sessions per week, totalling 18 minutes of hard slugging, 2 days of rope skipping 3 rounds each, and other skills related training. Weightlifting is of course supplementary, I am back doing dips, chinups and medicine ball rebounds.

I find I am generally in a good place, I just need to realize that if I go out twice a week on the town I need to be mindful of rest.

Thanks particularly to Eyedentist for input.