Has anyone tried or seen anyone doing these? I guess it’s like an overhead isolation for the anterior delts, going vertically over the head without triceps involvement…
what would be the point? there are front raises to isolate the anterior head… which actually most of the time gets enough work from presses.
Do you mean with range of motion from parallel (horizontal) to overhead?
Haven’t seen anyone do that, but myself I do front raises all the way to overhead rather than stopping at parallel. But the starting point is fully down, rather than from parallel, so it may not be the same as you mean.
Just thinking outside the box! Always looking for novel ways to stimulate a muscle group.
To Bill- I meant from horizontally out to the sides with palms facing up to meeting overhead.
[quote]ShutUpAndSquat wrote:
Has anyone tried or seen anyone doing these? I guess it’s like an overhead isolation for the anterior delts, going vertically over the head without triceps involvement…[/quote]
Useless. Don’t do things unless you have a reason to do them. Otherwise you are just wasting time. Anterior delts get a lot of work from incline presses, overhead presses and even front raises. If you are lifting heavy on all of those, it is very doubtful that your front delts would be lacking at all.
[quote]ShutUpAndSquat wrote:
Just thinking outside the box! Always looking for novel ways to stimulate a muscle group.[/quote]
…and there is nothing wrong with thinking outside the box. No one told me to do hack squats the way I am doing them now. But they have made my legs grow so I will keep doing them this way for a while. However, that doesn’t mean try random shit without having a logical basis for WHY.
Well my ‘logic’ would be that to improve one of the big lifts, the military press, isolating the anterior delts is one approach. And from there i just thought that it might be beneficial to isolate the delts in the same plane of motion that they’d be working the military press, as opposed to out the front in a front raise. Like I said, I’m not saying do them do them, just spitballing ideas!
Bush- you mean lat/front raises, there’s no point coming up to above horizontal?
Something like this? http://weightlifting.moonfruit.com/#/crucifixlift/4512379136
I have been using these for a while now after I learnt this from one of the dominican powerlifters I train with, and was able to bust through a plateau on my seated BB (and DB)
shoulder press with doing these for volume - along with some decent progress on the HS shoulder press and one-arm cable pull-down (for improved lat-upper arm support - you will not see great improvement in your military press without heavy lat development to “support” your upper arm at the bottom if that makes sense).
The key is not to do it for fuck’s sake without rhyme or reason. Do it if you know what muscles need to be strengthened/need extra volume/mid-muscle connection for a certain purpose - and HOW to execute said movement using the appropriate muscles - and most importantly, if you can see yourself making solid progress in said movement.
Pictures from Berardi’s site
http://www.johnberardi.com/updates/apr112003/na_mechadv_2.htm
if you do this as languidly as the chick in the pictures, I wouldn’;t expect much benefit, if any.
If you keep your palms-in and go heavy AND low enough (to the point where your body starts shaking to keep them steady) - you will greatly improve your medial delts participation in overhead pressing, which will result in a heavier military press.
reverse overhead dumbell laterals is what you are mentioning (overhead flys). Noted and photo on Pg. 287 of Arnold’s Encyclopedia of Bodybuilding. Develops the side and rear head of the deltoids in addition to the traps.
Sidebar the dude pictured was already big prior to adding these to his shoulder routine!
tribunaldude your post hit whilst i was writing mine and i agree with the neurological aspect/value of the exercise; volume to drill/build the connection between mind and body, this isn’t a movement wherein you can go heavy.
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Abducting the arms beyound about 90-100 degrees is generally a bad idea. The tubercles (greater if you do frontal abduction, lesser tubercle if you do lateral abduction) will impinge upon the subacromial space.
Over time this will likely lead to (at the very least) tendonitis of the supraspinatus or accelerated wear and tear of the shoulder archetecture.
Front raises or lateral raises serve little purpose when done beyond 90-100 degrees anyway, since the humeri rotate to permit the full range of motion, removing the stress from the intended muscles and shifting it elsewhere.
BBB[/quote]
x2. Was going to say something similar soon as I saw the title of this thread
[quote]Professor X wrote:
ShutUpAndSquat wrote:
Just thinking outside the box! Always looking for novel ways to stimulate a muscle group.
…and there is nothing wrong with thinking outside the box. No one told me to do hack squats the way I am doing them now. But they have made my legs grow so I will keep doing them this way for a while. However, that doesn’t mean try random shit without having a logical basis for WHY.[/quote]
You don’t know if something is going to work unless you try right? How do you define a logical basis?
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
MytchBucanan wrote:
Professor X wrote:
ShutUpAndSquat wrote:
Just thinking outside the box! Always looking for novel ways to stimulate a muscle group.
…and there is nothing wrong with thinking outside the box. No one told me to do hack squats the way I am doing them now. But they have made my legs grow so I will keep doing them this way for a while. However, that doesn’t mean try random shit without having a logical basis for WHY.
You don’t know if something is going to work unless you try right? How do you define a logical basis?
I think ProX is saying that you should have a rationale for doing what you are doing, before you do it.
BBB[/quote]
Exactly. I am not going to change my entire routine for no reason just to see what happens if what I am already doing happens to be working. If I do something differently, there is generally a reason WHY I am even considering a change at all, even if that reason is relatively small.
I have gone up in weight drastically for certain exercises…simply because the weight I was used to working with was being used by someone else at the moment…so I grab the next dumbbell up and that instantly becomes my new “last rep max” even if I can only get 2-3 reps out of it.
I changed how I train legs because I was having knee pain from doing them the previous way and it felt like I wasn’t recovering fast enough…so I increased my rest days and focused on one solid mass builder and went all out on it. My legs got stronger and my knee pain is gone (aside from the day after legs). I clearly made the right choice.
I get the feeling some of you really think you need to change your entire routine every other week “just to see”. That’s retarded. You can’t track progress if you are constantly flipping everything around.
Professor X how do you handle stalled lifts. Say I stall on the inlcine barbell press… for like 2 weeks. Is it good to change it to a completely new lift, or what about decreasing the weight and then working back up to it over several workouts, or doing lighter weight or what? What would you recommend for that/how did you handle situations like that?
[quote]Der Candy wrote:
Professor X how do you handle stalled lifts. Say I stall on the inlcine barbell press… for like 2 weeks. Is it good to change it to a completely new lift, or what about decreasing the weight and then working back up to it over several workouts, or doing lighter weight or what? What would you recommend for that/how did you handle situations like that?[/quote]
Plenty of ways to go about it… Swapping lifts and then coming back to the original after the new lift stalled, along with the occasional “deload” works well for me, all DC’ers and lots of westside lifters.
Px wrote about his way before if I remember correctly…
Oh yeah, here it is:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
NateN wrote:
This has been an interesting read, but I think the more useful question would be:
How did you train while you were building yourself up the fastest?
I’ve trained a lot of ways. My first real routine was from a box of Cybergenics. This current “try to find the one true way to workout” fad is a fallacy. There is no one true way to train that produces the best results because your body is adaptive. That means, what works for you right now, may not work the best for you when you gain another 10lbs of muscle. The one thing that has worked is balancing strength with form. I train to get stronger. Due to that and my diet, I also get bigger. Because you can’t simply get stronger forever, there have to be periods where your focus is more on form. One of the best ways to do this is to move up to a weight that you can only get maybe 3 times at the most. Continue working on form until you can get that same weight up for about 8 times and then move up again. There is nothing wrong with some cheating.
Some of the best advice you will ever get is to train with someone much stronger and more developed than you. Even if they aren’t the most educated, you can learn something from anyone with more experience than you…PhD or not.[/quote]
And I even did the search for you man, you better send me some money…