And age comes to all mortals, my friend.
Frank Mir does have a decent standup, btw.
[quote]kaisermetal wrote:
And age comes to all mortals, my friend.
Frank Mir does have a decent standup, btw.[/quote]
its decent yes. but put him in against overream or badhr hari or tyrone spong, he wouldn’t last 1 round with any of them.
We are talking about different sports, the setup, stance and movement are totally different.
The same way that Badr Hari, Spong or Aerts would get schooled if they decided to fight MMA
[quote]kaisermetal wrote:
We are talking about different sports, the setup, stance and movement are totally different.
The same way that Badr Hari, Spong or Aerts would get schooled if they decided to fight MMA[/quote]
well, overream is the current K1 champion and he stands a good chance of beating any of the top guys in mma. not saying he would win. but id say, hes in the top 5 now. after beating Werdum, though he didn’t look good, he still won, and werdum is definately a top 5-10 ranked guy. I still think the ufc will get overream. how they can release him is crazy. the guy had the best year of any mma fighter alive.
[quote]roguevampire wrote:
[quote]kaisermetal wrote:
We are talking about different sports, the setup, stance and movement are totally different.
The same way that Badr Hari, Spong or Aerts would get schooled if they decided to fight MMA[/quote]
the guy had the best year of any mma fighter alive. [/quote]
No, the guy with best year of any mma fighter alive is called either AS who is undefeated in 5 years, Shogun in 2005 or Fedor(the GOAT) in 2004
[quote]kaisermetal wrote:
[quote]roguevampire wrote:
[quote]kaisermetal wrote:
We are talking about different sports, the setup, stance and movement are totally different.
The same way that Badr Hari, Spong or Aerts would get schooled if they decided to fight MMA[/quote]
the guy had the best year of any mma fighter alive. [/quote]
No, the guy with best year of any mma fighter alive is called either AS who is undefeated in 5 years, Shogun in 2005 or Fedor(the GOAT) in 2004[/quote]
I do think Reem is the choice for Fighter of the Year 2010 though. Went undefeated all year with 2 MMA and 5 K-1 fights, won Dream title, defended Strikeforce title, won K-1 Grand Prix.
Side track: I remember ZEB telling me that I would regret the UFC buying out strikeforce. I knew he was right then, but I am feeling the regret now.
[quote]roguevampire wrote:
[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]rundymc wrote:
I agree, Fedor stood and threw. Where once he had the ability to drag guys to the floor and the physical and technical ability to threaten in all areas, he’s become somewhat one dimensional now.
I’m not decided on whether it’s the game passing him by, or him regressing, but I’d wager it’s both.
He’s not top 5 anymore. Accept it. It’s not like he doesn’t have a legacy, lol.[/quote]
It has nothing to do with “the game passing him by”, it has to do with him getting old. Same thing happened with Cro Cop. There’s a reason fighters don’t have an old timers league.[/quote]
I have to go with Rundymc on this one. I do think Fedor is obviously past his prime, and while i wouldnt necessarily say the game as a whole is passing him by, i do think that as he fights more complete/elite fighters, the holes in his game are exposed. Ive been saying for years that Fedor will have trouble once he comes to the U.S. and starts consistently fighting the high level competition over here, and that is what has happened. [/quote]
If you agree that he’s past his prime and that now the holes in his game can be exposed where they once couldn’t then how is that the game passing him by? That is him getting old. Henderson still seems to be doing pretty damn well despite being the exact same fighter he’s always been, and he wasn’t near as dominant as Fedor, so what that shows me is age isn’t catching up with him as quickly.
[/quote]
Because as fedor begins facing more complete fighters who ARE at the top of their game, thats when he starts losing. And while i do think Fedor’s age has some effect on this, i dont think he declined all that much from his former self. Ive been saying for years that Fedor hasnt been tested consistently enough to say he’s the greatest HW in the world, and now he has been tested.
There’s no way for me to prove that the game has evolved at a faster rate than Fedor has, just as there’s no way you can prove to me that its simply due to age. So in that respect, we will likely have to agree to disagree. However, Fedor has fought some of the best competition of his career lately, guys he has never faced before, and the results speak for themselves.
[/quote]
I won’t agree to disagree. What you’re saying makes no sense. Fedor fought everyone at the top of their game in PRIDE when the UFC’s HW division was shit and he beat them all. Once again, Dan Henderson is THE EXACT same fighter he’s always been yet he’s still able to win, and he was never nearly as dominant as Fedor. All that shows is Fedor’s age is catching up with him all at once instead of slowly declining. How you don’t understand this is beyond me.[/quote]
Stylistically, i would have picked Henderson to win this fight anyway.
At the time Fedor was on top, sure the UFC HW division was weak. But even a prime fedor never fought competition like Cain Velasquez, JDS, Dan Henderson, or Antonio Silva. Theres nothing that makes me think that 3 years ago Fedor could have still won those fights. The only guys Fedor has fought that could be put on par with the fighters i just mentioned are Cro Cop and Nog. And that is assuming that age catching up with them is the issue they have faced since coming over to the U.S.
The bottom line is, the most impressive thing about his record is the win streak he was on. He did not consistently face elite level competition. Hell, until his last 3 fights he hadnt faced a top heavy since 2005.
Get over it, he was good, but never as good as everyone wanted to believe.
[/quote]
Wow. EVERY FIGHTER of that era said Fedor was basically unstoppable, and he proved it for a fucking decade. Of course you would’ve picked Hendo to win this anyway… Did you really just compare Antonio Silva to Cro Cop and Nog? Dude, you need to go back and do a whole lot of reading and watching a whole lot of footage before you keep spouting off nonsense. You’re coming across as a UFC fanboy with no sense of history.[/quote]
Key words: OF THE ERA. The fighters of that era across every weight class dont stand up to the fighters of todays era. I am far from a UFC fanboy, ive been following the sport religiously for about 7 years, and have done my research to know what went on before i started watching.
Look at the guys that Fedor beat. I shouldnt even have to explain anything about the guys he’s fought since 2006. And before that we have Matt Lindland, Mark Coleman, Mark Hunt, Cro Cop, Nog, Randleman, Goodridge, Herring, and thats not including all the C list fighters he fought in between. Give me a fucking break. These fighters IN THEIR PRIME do not stack up to todays fighters, except for Nog and CC.
You said it yourself, everyone said he was dominating the fighters OF THAT ERA, and thats why the game has passed him by, at least to some extent. because the fighters of that era look like a who’s who of B list fighters compared to today’s competition.
We will never know how a pride era Fedor would fare against today’s competition, but i still maintain that todays fighters are too evolved for him to make that kind of run against.
Also, dont act like putting Antonio Silva’s name in the same line as Cro Cop and Nog is such an atrocity. Obviously you have an under-appreciation for his skills. The guy is certainly a premier HW and he will very likely one day have a record as impressive as either of the aforementioned pride fighters.
Let’s also not forget that Cro Cop and Nog were both still considered to be in their prime RIGHT before coming to the UFC in 2007. Now i’ll be the first too admit that neither man is the same fighter they once were today, and this is especially painful to admit since Cro Cop is my favorite all time fighter, but i dont think that age caught up to them in the span of 1 year…[/quote]
I will only speak of cro cop. this guy was a top K1 level fighter. the reasons for him not doing nearly as good in the ufc are many. but the biggest reasons are his knee injuries. hes had surgeries on his knees or knee. when you watched him fight in pride and how he fights in the ufc its night and day. to think that brandon schaub could even last a round with cro crop in his prime would be a hard sell. when freaken frank mir can beat you in a stand up match, youve gone down hill. ask yourself this, could frank mir compete in K1. of course he couldn’t, hed get destroyed. those guys are the very best in the world at standup and at one time cro crop was among them.[/quote]
Your argument is irrelevant. Cro Cop was plagued by injuries for years BEFORE even coming into the UFC. Actually, in his more recent UFC fights, he stated that he was getting a lot of these injuries taken care of finally and seemed optimistic.
No, Frank Mir could not compete in K-1. There are VERY few MMA fighters that can, notably Cro Cop and Overeem.
However there are VERY few K-1 fighters that can have more than a modest amount of success in MMA. Apples to oranges.
Go back to talking about subjects you are well versed in, like how scary and lean you are, and of the secret underwater vampire giant squid societies of the world.
[quote]roguevampire wrote:
[quote]kaisermetal wrote:
We are talking about different sports, the setup, stance and movement are totally different.
The same way that Badr Hari, Spong or Aerts would get schooled if they decided to fight MMA[/quote]
well, overream is the current K1 champion and he stands a good chance of beating any of the top guys in mma. not saying he would win. but id say, hes in the top 5 now. after beating Werdum, though he didn’t look good, he still won, and werdum is definately a top 5-10 ranked guy. I still think the ufc will get overream. how they can release him is crazy. the guy had the best year of any mma fighter alive. [/quote]
Again, irrelevant. Overeem has been competing professionally in MMA for over a decade. Its not hard to figure out why he can have a more successful MMA career than Hari or Spong would have. Hari in the UFC would look a lot like James Toney in the UFC i fear.
[quote]kaisermetal wrote:
And age comes to all mortals, my friend.
Frank Mir does have a decent standup, btw.[/quote]
Well good think Rogue here is a member of a society of immortal vampires. He will only continue to improve until he is one day Mr. olympia AND UFC superheavyweight champ.
Just made me remember some k-1 stars performance on MMA
(watch this one with the sound off, please)
The greatest fight in MMA history
Well now it seems like he is negotiating with Zuffa, hope it turns out for the best and we’ll get to see Reem - Cain/JDS winner title unification fight soon.
GO GO REEM! WAR UBEREEM! CRUSH THE UFC HW!
The rumor goes the contract is ready and signed and all they need to do before releasing is find him an opponent. Boy do I hope its true…
Overeem VS Carwin would be a good tuneup fight for the octagon.
I’d love to see that one, but I kinda hope that they just put him up against who ever wins the title fight, if no one gets hurt too bad. Same source on UG also said that Reem is fighting some injuries right now, maybe if its going to take long enough for him to recover from his rib injury etc. he might be able to sit and wait to hear who comes out on top of Cain/JDS?
fair enough
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/348675/Alistair-Overeem-may-have-already-signed-with-UFC/
Hope its true. People are already speculating the FOX mainevent will feature Reem vs. Mir or Lesnar, apparently Lesnar’s carrier might be over (again) so I guess it’ll be Reem vs. Mir if it involves Reem. We’ll find out soon.
[quote]Fistiecuffs wrote:
I’d love to see that one, but I kinda hope that they just put him up against who ever wins the title fight, if no one gets hurt too bad. Same source on UG also said that Reem is fighting some injuries right now, maybe if its going to take long enough for him to recover from his rib injury etc. he might be able to sit and wait to hear who comes out on top of Cain/JDS?[/quote]
I think straight off he ought to try JDS, even if he doesn’t win the title soon. Can the Reem out standup a standup star? Also, it would be interestling if JDS could take Overeem to the ground and use his BJJ like Werdum could not employ.
fuck all that hype for only JDS vs Velasquez?
i wished for Overeem and this is what i get. boohoo
[quote]Fistiecuffs wrote:
Well now it seems like he is negotiating with Zuffa, hope it turns out for the best and we’ll get to see Reem - Cain/JDS winner title unification fight soon.[/quote]
Sounds about right. Best thing overeem did was slag the ufc and immediately tell it how it was with the way sf ditched him. Ufc then has to go into damage control because he put up a good arguement with his injuries and their haste so to save face they put him on one of their shows. WAAAR REEM, demolish all that is UFC!!!