I’m done with this.
The cop was guilty of discharging a firearm, the guy on the ground was restrained (by force) and unarmed.
GUILTY!
LR
I’m having a hard time believing he meant to shoot this guy with all those people standing right there. Yeah, it’s possible that he’s a cold blooded killer who decided to commit the act in a manner making it then impossible to deny his involvement.
However, it seems irrational for him to kill someone right there in front of what appears to be a ton of witnesses. That doesn’t mean he wasn’t negligent in whatever way. I’m not to sure what charge a death through negligence could bring…If that is what this is.
[quote]London Runner wrote:
hedo wrote:
Snipe is correct. The safties you refer to are more accurately known as blocks. A firing pin block, and trigger block to be specific. These are designed to prevent the handgun from discharging accidentaly w/o the trigger being pulled.
A handgun with a manual safety must be disengaged by the user before the trigger can be pulled. Glocks are normally described as not having a safety. The reference to the blocks you described is more of a technical reference.
Glock does not make a ceramic weapon. It is a myth spawned from the Movie Die Hard (the infamous Glock 7). All Glocks have been made from polymer, not ceramic. The statement that you shot one leads me to believe you made up the fact that you ever used a handgun.
I shoot and own a lot of Glocks (17,19,21,31,34)and trained many others how to shoot with them. I always refer to them as not having a manual safety and every other NRA affilated instructor I know does also.
http://www.glockfaq.com/models.htm
"Where can I get a porcelain or ceramic Glock, you know, the Glock 7?
There is no such thing as a porcelain or ceramic Glock. All Glocks are made from polymer and steel and always have been. This rumor got started (or maybe fueled) by a line from Bruce Willis in the movie ‘Die Hard 2: Die Harder’:
“That punk pulled a Glock 7 on me! You know what that is? It’s a porcelain gun made in Germany. It doesn’t show up on your airport X-ray machines, and it cost more than you make here in a month.”
This is, of course, complete hogwash. Don’t believe everything you see in the movies. "
Let me guess, your here to back up your buddy.
The Last glock i refered to actually a training Glock was at the firing range in Vegas which fires paintballs (the sliding mechanism was black and the bottom half was purple, and there were ones where the bottom half was orange, if you train people to use them, you must have seen them). The other two (23c, 17L) fired ammo.
I also fired a Magnum that day FYI!
Are you another one of those “only people in america have fired guns” people?
The afternoon at the firing range was organised by the hotel (MGM Grand), i’m sure if you contact them, you can find out what the name of the range is where they take people.
I don’t know if the quote from the film is correct, but Glocks are from Austria, not Germany, but I wouldn’t expect you to know the differnce.
LR[/quote]
Maybe Snipe is right and you are just a dimwit pretending to have knowledge about a subject you know nothing about.
Son, your lack of firearms knowledge and terminology is laughable and you do write like an douchebag so please refrain from making a fool of yourself anymore. Yeah I do know where Glocks come from and remarkably have been to Europe many times. I’m suprisingly well travelled so your assumption is foolish. Interesting factoid…when I took the Glock armorers course 3 years ago the instructor was an Austrian transplant who now lived in Georgia. You do know what an armorer is don’t you?
Am I one of those “only people in america fire guns” people. Hardly but the US does have a large amount of folks who enjoy the shooting sports compared to other nations. My friends abroad enjoy hunting and fishing with me when they visit and find it a rare treat, the English enjoy it in particular.
I have a concealed weapons permit and perhaps 30 weapons in my safe…how about you? Any military or civilian training with a firearm? I’m not sure shooting at the MGM Grand qualifies you to be an expert on handguns but and in your locale it is more experience then most have…no doubt it gives you a great deal of confidence until you step out of your own little world.
I have trained a lot of folks with Glocks and they don’t make a weapon you described.
They do make the following however:
Red Glock Practice Pistol
The Glock Practice Pistols work normally for loading, unloading and trigger operation but are made non-firing by a plugged barrel and solid breechface. They are identical to a standard pistol in size, shape and weight but have a bright red frame to identify them as training pistols. The following models are available: G17P, G19P, G22P, G23P and G26P. Glock Practice Pistols are only available to law enforcement officers. That is the picture you posted by the way.
Blue Glock Training Pistols
The Blue Glock Training Pistols are designed to fire color marking ammo (similar to a paintball) or rubber bullets. There are 2 models available. The 17T 9mm FX fires simunition ammo and the 17T 7.8X21 AC fires compressed air cartridge casings. Glock Training Pistols are identical to the G17 in size and shape but have a bright blue frame. They are available to law enforcement only. A simunition isn’t a paintball and only someone who has never fired one could confuse the two. Paintballs are toys. Simunitions are training aids used by the police and military.
Practice up…maybe I’ll shoot with you at a GSSF match someday. No doubt you’ll be the one with the Ceramic Glock. I’ll stick with the G19. Remember point the part with the hole in it towards thea target and you should be fine.
[quote]hedo wrote:
Blue Glock Training Pistols
The Blue Glock Training Pistols are designed to fire color marking ammo (similar to a paintball) or rubber bullets. There are 2 models available. The 17T 9mm FX fires simunition ammo and the 17T 7.8X21 AC fires compressed air cartridge casings. Glock Training Pistols are identical to the G17 in size and shape but have a bright blue frame. They are available to law enforcement only. A simunition isn’t a paintball and only someone who has never fired one could confuse the two. Paintballs are toys. Simunitions are training aids used by the police and military.
[/quote]
They are available to law enforcement only??
http://www.surplusstore.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/1666
LR
[quote]London Runner wrote:
hedo wrote:
Blue Glock Training Pistols
The Blue Glock Training Pistols are designed to fire color marking ammo (similar to a paintball) or rubber bullets. There are 2 models available. The 17T 9mm FX fires simunition ammo and the 17T 7.8X21 AC fires compressed air cartridge casings. Glock Training Pistols are identical to the G17 in size and shape but have a bright blue frame. They are available to law enforcement only. A simunition isn’t a paintball and only someone who has never fired one could confuse the two. Paintballs are toys. Simunitions are training aids used by the police and military.
They are available to law enforcement only??
http://www.surplusstore.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/1666
LR[/quote]
Did you read the first line of the webpage:
“This is a copy of the Glock pistol but with an olive body”
For one so stuck on nomonclature this should have stood out don’t you think. Glock, you know the company from Austria, doesn’t sell this toy.
[quote]London Runner wrote:
We’re already living in a policed state, but we just don’t realise it yet. Slowly but surely human rights are taken away from the public, but it’s done it such a way, that people don’t even see it. Every day the voice of the public is being heard less and less.
What happened to the government representing the people that voted for them? Gone!
What happened to protect and serve? Gone!
Now all we get is, “Do what we say or else!”.
Governments are no longer by the people for the people. They are solely there to serve a ruling class, and the police are their very own storm troopers.
If that guy was the son of someone that gave a sizable contribution to the republican party in their last campaign, The Governator would have had the cop in jail by now.
As it stands, it’s just another black kid from Cali.
I hope I’m wrong, and democracy prevails. But it probably wont.
LR[/quote]
But he’s right with this statement.
Protest turns violent in Oakland.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/01/07/BA2N155CN1.DTL
[quote]London Runner wrote:
hedo wrote:
Blue Glock Training Pistols
The Blue Glock Training Pistols are designed to fire color marking ammo (similar to a paintball) or rubber bullets. There are 2 models available. The 17T 9mm FX fires simunition ammo and the 17T 7.8X21 AC fires compressed air cartridge casings. Glock Training Pistols are identical to the G17 in size and shape but have a bright blue frame. They are available to law enforcement only. A simunition isn’t a paintball and only someone who has never fired one could confuse the two. Paintballs are toys. Simunitions are training aids used by the police and military.
They are available to law enforcement only??
http://www.surplusstore.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/1666
LR[/quote]
I have used the red non-firing ones that load and have a working trigger but blocked barrel and solid breech We used them to train for CCW and the DPS armed private security Lisc.
However this was supervised and sponsored by DPS and the general public have not and will never be able to use the blue or the red ones.
only civilians to use them to my knowledge was security companies like mine, and it was more for the “live” testing and not training we used them for like 30 mins tops IIRC it was to show the state that we knew how to load and operate a weapon without shooting our feet off.
[quote]dwilliams wrote:
Protest turns violent in Oakland.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/01/07/BA2N155CN1.DTL
[/quote]
As I stated earlier. If he gets off California will burn!
Neither of the 2 glocks I’ve fired had anything external but a trigger safety.
[quote]London Runner wrote:
Maybe you should upgrade your outdated weapon!
LR[/quote]
The lack of an external manual safety is not because they are “outdated”. It’s intentional design. According to Glock:
PSYCHOLOGY
Every use of a firearm exposes users to tremendous psychological strain. Learned patterns are easily forgotten in such borderline situations and complex operating elements become a deadly trap. GLOCK offers the best solution to this problem: ?Safe Action?!
One operating element - one rule. Finger away from the trigger, three pistol safeties are active. Pull the trigger, the safeties are deactivated and the pistol is fired. Consequently the user can fully concentrate on his tactical tasks in the decisive moment.
http://www.glock.com/english/index_pistols.htm
Adding a manual external safety defeats the simplicity and utility of the gun.
If the cop’s gun discharged, it was because he pulled the trigger. While the discharge may have been negligent, it was not “accidental”. The most important safety feature when handling a gun in neither internal or external to the gun: it’s the brain of the operator.
RULE I: Treat all guns as if they are loaded.
RULE II: Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
RULE III: Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot.
RULE IV: Be sure of your target, and what’s behind it.
Now class, which rule(s) did the cop violate?
[quote]Loose Tool wrote:
London Runner wrote:
Maybe you should upgrade your outdated weapon!
LR
The lack of an external manual safety is not because they are “outdated”. It’s intentional design. According to Glock:
PSYCHOLOGY
Every use of a firearm exposes users to tremendous psychological strain. Learned patterns are easily forgotten in such borderline situations and complex operating elements become a deadly trap. GLOCK offers the best solution to this problem: ?Safe Action?!
One operating element - one rule. Finger away from the trigger, three pistol safeties are active. Pull the trigger, the safeties are deactivated and the pistol is fired. Consequently the user can fully concentrate on his tactical tasks in the decisive moment.
http://www.glock.com/english/index_pistols.htm
Adding a manual external safety defeats the simplicity and utility of the gun.
If the cop’s gun discharged, it was because he pulled the trigger. While the discharge may have been negligent, it was not “accidental”. The most important safety feature when handling a gun in neither internal or external to the gun: it’s the brain of the operator.
RULE I: Treat all guns as if they are loaded.
RULE II: Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
RULE III: Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot.
RULE IV: Be sure of your target, and what’s behind it.
Now class, which rule(s) did the cop violate?
[/quote]
None he purposely shot at his intended target.
This cop should be in jail for 2nd degree murder, right now. I don’t know what Oakland is waiting for.
I would recommend the folks of Oakland not to riot or turn this thing into a race war. It’s just not necessary…most people agree this was cold blooded murder. I don’t see honkeys jumping on the cops side…So let get the rent-a-cop in jail and live in peace. Violence belongs in the middle east, not here.
I would be rioting also
I fear law enforcement will do whatever they can to protect this officer. They always do.
Obviously there are a lot of outstanding officers out there, but until departments start fully prosecuting the bad apples instead of always backing them up- then you’re going to have a nation distrustful of police and outraged at every instance of police brutality.
EVERYONE I know does their best to avoid cops like the plague, because everyone knows they’ve got unchecked power. Who wants to go near an officer who has forgotten he is there to SERVE the people and can get away with anything? Nobody I know.
[quote]Inner Hulk wrote:
I fear law enforcement will do whatever they can to protect this officer. They always do.
Obviously there are a lot of outstanding officers out there, but until departments start fully prosecuting the bad apples instead of always backing them up- then you’re going to have a nation distrustful of police and outraged at every instance of police brutality.
EVERYONE I know does their best to avoid cops like the plague, because everyone knows they’ve got unchecked power. Who wants to go near an officer who has forgotten he is there to SERVE the people and can get away with anything? Nobody I know.[/quote]
They do not want to work the us against them mentality
There are so many POS cops. All the biggest douchebags I knew in high school went on to be cops…the wannabe tough guy authoritarian bozos. This guy should fry and the Police Union should have no support for him
[quote]Floortom wrote:
There are so many POS cops. All the biggest douchebags I knew in high school went on to be cops…the wannabe tough guy authoritarian bozos. This guy should fry and the Police Union should have no support for him[/quote]
Unless my eyes deceived me I saw that cop kill that guy
as a white middle class man i believe the 3 police officers there should all be charged with murder. They are clearly up to no good. I would push for the death penalty on the asswhipe who pulled the trigger, and they should be placed in general population.
Just because they have a badge does not give them the right to execute an individual. That is beyond disgusting. Grant was clearly cooperating. He was doing as the officers asked, and he clearly killed him, execution style. There was no reason for him to draw his weapon, the other 2 officers i saw should of said “Hey, what the fuck are you doing?” Instead they looked on, and just passively watched his fellow officer execute a man. This has totally destroyed my faith(what little is left) in both the police and the justice system. In my town a woman was screaming in the cemetary, probably at a dead relative, and a police officer showed up and killed her. She had a cell-phone.