I thought you weren’t squatting more, because you don’t have a squat rack…???
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
I thought you weren’t squatting more, because you don’t have a squat rack…???[/quote]
Just got access to a squat rack last week. Will have one from now on.
[quote]The3Commandments wrote:
The reason I say your form has to suck is because there’s just no way that you’re only doing 60kg on squats at this point. Your body has more muscle than that–you need to learn to recruit all the muscle you can for the lift. That’s what I’m saying about your squatting numbers–stop telling yourself that you’re weak because you’re squatting 60kg. Squatting 60kg for you has nothing to do with muscular weakness. First, realize that a squat that low has got to be the result of the fact that you haven’t learned how to recruit more muscle for the lift. I’m a beginner too, and I am not at all saying that my squat form is perfect–my squat form is probably at the “pretty good” level MAYBE–but I’m obsessive about proper form with squats and being sure that I’m really recruiting all the muscle I possibly can to move that weight.
I feel like I’m sort of where you’re at on squat with my bench press. I need to start rethinking my form on bench.
I understand not wanting to screw with your program, but if your program is getting you to squatting 60kg at this point, then…what’s so great about the program for you?
and ADD 1K CALORIES at least! Just eat clean foods, man. And really work your fucking balls off in the gym. I’ve put a bit of fat on my newly emerging love handles, but that’s fine for now. The first step is putting on size. Every big guy was puffy at some point, and if I need to get to 225 being a bit puffy by the end, then so be it.[/quote]
Do you really think ill need to jump too 4K? I mean I can do it in a heart beat and I dont mind being a little puffy if it means ill build some decent muscle but I dont want to be “the fat guy with good forearms” if that makes sense. I was pretty overweight for a long time so I have a few hang ups about being back at that stage since im quite cubby as it is, I think my bf is around 19%.
I Understand where your coming from with my squats, I really need to get my mind set in place and really look at my form.
I dont understand why it fell to shit tbh, I was free squatting 80KG for 3 below parallel fine without the rack and then I get into the rack and I cant do anything. Totally disheartening.
[quote]solidkhalid wrote:
The easiest advice I’ve ever given to a client is to eat twice of what your eating.[/quote]
Trust me dude, I have zero problem eating. I just have a slight problem with getting very fat again 
Dave,
You’re going to have to figure this all out for yourself. You’ve got a proper squat rack now, I do believe you’ll have no problems jumping quite rapidly in weight each week with the program you are on. If you really are thinking 500 cal is going to make or break your squat numbers though, you may be focusing on the wrong thing…and I believe any differences you see in performance may be placebo effect more than anything. I have read somewhere in a post that Bonez takes in about 3500 cal/day. So the number you are at now, is not going to hurt your performance. Now putting on size…that may be a different story…may not. You have to be honest with yourself when you look in the mirror, read the scale, take your measurements, etc…and adjust accordingly.
Just for reference, it was last summer I was taking in 1800 cal/day while cutting, and my squats were improving each week. At this stage it’s more about conditioning your nervous system to handle more weight. Putting on size certainly does help. Another example, my gf is 53kg and can squat 85kg for 6. She eats like a bird. I have coached several of my friends to similar numbers, who refuse to eat enough…not really sure why it’s so hard to convince them to eat more…lol. Anyway, just wanted to throw that out there.
Before you compare your diet to 3Commandment’s, give this spill a read:
http://www.T-Nation.com/strength-training-topics/722
This really does apply here. No one can tell you how much you should be eating without physically being there, assessing your progress. Right now, that person is YOU!
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
Dave,
You’re going to have to figure this all out for yourself. You’ve got a proper squat rack now, I do believe you’ll have no problems jumping quite rapidly in weight each week with the program you are on. If you really are thinking 500 cal is going to make or break your squat numbers though, you may be focusing on the wrong thing…and I believe any differences you see in performance may be placebo effect more than anything. I have read somewhere in a post that Bonez takes in about 3500 cal/day. So the number you are at now, is not going to hurt your performance. Now putting on size…that may be a different story…may not. You have to be honest with yourself when you look in the mirror, read the scale, take your measurements, etc…and adjust accordingly.
Just for reference, it was last summer I was taking in 1800 cal/day while cutting, and my squats were improving each week. At this stage it’s more about conditioning your nervous system to handle more weight. Putting on size certainly does help. Another example, my gf is 53kg and can squat 85kg for 6. She eats like a bird. I have coached several of my friends to similar numbers, who refuse to eat enough…not really sure why it’s so hard to convince them to eat more…lol. Anyway, just wanted to throw that out there.
Before you compare your diet to 3Commandment’s, give this spill a read:
http://www.T-Nation.com/strength-training-topics/722
This really does apply here. No one can tell you how much you should be eating without physically being there, assessing your progress. Right now, that person is YOU! [/quote]
I agree with all of that. The main purpose of my posts was primarily to kick you in the ass!
[quote]The3Commandments wrote:
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
Dave,
You’re going to have to figure this all out for yourself. You’ve got a proper squat rack now, I do believe you’ll have no problems jumping quite rapidly in weight each week with the program you are on. If you really are thinking 500 cal is going to make or break your squat numbers though, you may be focusing on the wrong thing…and I believe any differences you see in performance may be placebo effect more than anything. I have read somewhere in a post that Bonez takes in about 3500 cal/day. So the number you are at now, is not going to hurt your performance. Now putting on size…that may be a different story…may not. You have to be honest with yourself when you look in the mirror, read the scale, take your measurements, etc…and adjust accordingly.
Just for reference, it was last summer I was taking in 1800 cal/day while cutting, and my squats were improving each week. At this stage it’s more about conditioning your nervous system to handle more weight. Putting on size certainly does help. Another example, my gf is 53kg and can squat 85kg for 6. She eats like a bird. I have coached several of my friends to similar numbers, who refuse to eat enough…not really sure why it’s so hard to convince them to eat more…lol. Anyway, just wanted to throw that out there.
Before you compare your diet to 3Commandment’s, give this spill a read:
http://www.T-Nation.com/strength-training-topics/722
This really does apply here. No one can tell you how much you should be eating without physically being there, assessing your progress. Right now, that person is YOU! [/quote]
I agree with all of that. The main purpose of my posts was primarily to kick you in the ass!
[/quote]
Haha…I believe we have respectively assumed the roles of Good Cop/Bad Cop in Dave’s training log…
Just remember Dave, lay the foundations before you add any of the decoration.
[quote]phlegms wrote:
Just remember Dave, lay the foundations before you add any of the decoration.[/quote]
Who needs foundations when you can has teh creatinez?!
lol
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
[quote]phlegms wrote:
Just remember Dave, lay the foundations before you add any of the decoration.[/quote]
Who needs foundations when you can has teh creatinez?![/quote]
Yeah very true, like I mean Who needs strength when you have jack3d?
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
[quote]The3Commandments wrote:
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
Dave,
You’re going to have to figure this all out for yourself. You’ve got a proper squat rack now, I do believe you’ll have no problems jumping quite rapidly in weight each week with the program you are on. If you really are thinking 500 cal is going to make or break your squat numbers though, you may be focusing on the wrong thing…and I believe any differences you see in performance may be placebo effect more than anything. I have read somewhere in a post that Bonez takes in about 3500 cal/day. So the number you are at now, is not going to hurt your performance. Now putting on size…that may be a different story…may not. You have to be honest with yourself when you look in the mirror, read the scale, take your measurements, etc…and adjust accordingly.
Just for reference, it was last summer I was taking in 1800 cal/day while cutting, and my squats were improving each week. At this stage it’s more about conditioning your nervous system to handle more weight. Putting on size certainly does help. Another example, my gf is 53kg and can squat 85kg for 6. She eats like a bird. I have coached several of my friends to similar numbers, who refuse to eat enough…not really sure why it’s so hard to convince them to eat more…lol. Anyway, just wanted to throw that out there.
Before you compare your diet to 3Commandment’s, give this spill a read:
http://www.T-Nation.com/strength-training-topics/722
This really does apply here. No one can tell you how much you should be eating without physically being there, assessing your progress. Right now, that person is YOU! [/quote]
I agree with all of that. The main purpose of my posts was primarily to kick you in the ass!
[/quote]
Haha…I believe we have respectively assumed the roles of Good Cop/Bad Cop in Dave’s training log…[/quote]
Consider me well and truly kicked in the nads lol.
[quote]phlegms wrote:
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
[quote]phlegms wrote:
Just remember Dave, lay the foundations before you add any of the decoration.[/quote]
Who needs foundations when you can has teh creatinez?![/quote]
Yeah very true, like I mean Who needs strength when you have jack3d?[/quote]
Yup, forget squats and eating. All I need is a nice dose of creitinez and jacked to fix my girly numbers, woo thanks for setting me straight you guys!
Just a thought Dave, but what programme are you thinking of switching to?
I know you say consistency is a big factor in you not achieving your full potential. But I’m not really sure how well the WS4SB is working, it really doesn’t seem like a programme that was ever suited for you. Its much more tailored towards athletes etc etc. And if being an athlete for a soccer/American football team isn’t in your goals then why follow it?
I’m not advocating jumping around a tonne of programs, but if it ain’t working, switch. No point in following something that ain’t suited for your goals.
Personally I’m going to put forward you starting on 5/3/1 asap, but I think I’m a bit biased tbh
Really any programme revolving around the big 4 basic, compound, power moves will serve yah well. (Which is why I like 5/3/1 as you have the OHP, Squat, Bench and deadlift)
Anyway, just a thought buddy. Feel free to disregard!
5/3/1 or BBB, agreed with phlegms. I’m biased for BBB, but there ya go–different strokes, I suppose.
However, where I disagree is blaming your program. For a reasonably fit male with months of training under his belt, squatting 60kgs is caused by something beyond the program. We’re not with you in the gym, so we don’t know how much you are pushing yourself, but I would have to strongly suspect it’s your form. There’s just gotta be something wrong there.
[quote]phlegms wrote:
Just a thought Dave, but what programme are you thinking of switching to?
I know you say consistency is a big factor in you not achieving your full potential. But I’m not really sure how well the WS4SB is working, it really doesn’t seem like a programme that was ever suited for you. Its much more tailored towards athletes etc etc. And if being an athlete for a soccer/American football team isn’t in your goals then why follow it?
I’m not advocating jumping around a tonne of programs, but if it ain’t working, switch. No point in following something that ain’t suited for your goals.
Personally I’m going to put forward you starting on 5/3/1 asap, but I think I’m a bit biased tbh
Really any programme revolving around the big 4 basic, compound, power moves will serve yah well. (Which is why I like 5/3/1 as you have the OHP, Squat, Bench and deadlift)
Anyway, just a thought buddy. Feel free to disregard! [/quote]
You biased bastard! lol
Thanks for the thought, ill be honest with you. The amount of time I wanted to jump from WS4SB in the last 4 months isnt even countable. The problem isnt with the program though, yeah its not exactly what I wanted for my goals but that doesn’t matter. Being the beginner I am any plan should be working for building both strength and muscle if they are done well with intensity.
Ive looked at 5/3/1 a lot, as T3C once said to me “its battle tested” so I know it works and I like that but there isnt any point of me changing right now as I promised myself id do WS4SB for at least 6 months. Im on month 4 now and realizing it wasn’t a great choice of plan but im not going to bail because I made a commitment, besides whats two months? I have years.
“A crap plan done with 100% intensity will always be better than a perfect plan done at 75% intensity”. I know where your coming from but I think jumping at this stage would just renforce a bad habit(god knows I worry about plans enough as it is, thank fuck I haven’t started program hopping yet!).
Your totally right, WS4SB was probably one of the worst picks for me as a beginner but I didnt know any better, and at this stage I would see more benefit finishing what I started than giving up on it(for something much better lol).
Thanks for checking in on me in the last few days, dies of shame from squat numbers
[quote]The3Commandments wrote:
5/3/1 or BBB, agreed with phlegms. I’m biased for BBB, but there ya go–different strokes, I suppose.
However, where I disagree is blaming your program. For a reasonably fit male with months of training under his belt, squatting 60kgs is caused by something beyond the program. We’re not with you in the gym, so we don’t know how much you are pushing yourself, but I would have to strongly suspect it’s your form. There’s just gotta be something wrong there.[/quote]
I squatted 60KG, I suck, I get it lol.
But your right, while the program may not be optimal(which one ever is?) its not the program thats falling short. Its me. It may come back to me second guessing myself, it may be a lack of experience, it may be me not pushing myself as hard as I should, fuck it could just be me being an ignorant bastard but the bottom line is its me. A program is only worth what you put into it and obviously I havent been doing WS4SB justice in the last few months.
After the kick in the nads you gave me yesterday this wont be a problem again, personally I think I was lulling myself into what I thought was “intensity”. I was just being ignorant and its not the first time Ive done it(ask J), thats why its great to have guys keeping me in check.
Like you said, you may not be in the gym with me but like fuck if im going to post such shitty numbers again if your looking over them
As for 5/3/1 vs BBB, they are both amazing programs, both work very differently and both have different styles. Ive read both books through and through 3 times now and what I find is when I read 5/3/1 I think “wow this makes a lot of sense and looks great” but then I read BBB and think “fucccccccccccccccccccccccccckkkkkkkkkk me thats how I want to train”.
So while both are great programs, I just seem to find more faith(or enthusiasm) for BBB than 5/3/1.
Stop me if I sound like im on my period, after those squats on Friday though it wouldnt surprise me.
Dude, the weight really isn’t the problem. Hell, you’re deadlifting 135 kgs, which isn’t for chumps at all. But you’re squatting less than half of that–a disparity that doesn’t seem to fit. I just think that the big thing at this point is to make sure that you know what you’re doing form-wise. 60kgs isn’t a big deal…who the fuck cares how much you’re squatting right now weight-wise, as you have years to bring that up. The significance of 60kgs is that it suggests that you’re doing something fundamentally wrong, probably related to form, that could end up hindering progress at best and causing serious injury at worst as you progress the way you’re currently doing things. The concern is injury-prevention and such more than the weight itself. Especially with something like BBB, which has you doing sets of 13-15 at times and hitting legs every day (fuck me) during one ramp, form is really important. But it’s really important anyway, particularly on squat.
I remember you said you had friends on a powerlifting team or oly lifting team or something–why not have them do a form-check with you? Or just ask someone at the gym who seems experienced to watch you do a set and critique what you’re doing.
Forget 5/3/1 and BBB…I’m putting a vote in for Jillean Michaels “30 day shred”…heard good things…
On a serious note, what the F is jack3d??