I believe it’s the 17AA AAS’s (how’s that for abbreviations) are the ones that are toxic to the liver.
My question is compared to alcohol are they far worse than alcohol? For example someone who drinks on the weekends, if they were to give it up and replace it with an oral cycle, how much worse off would the liver be?
Assuming a moderate intake mg wise daily.
ok- I’ve read about all the Cy-Borg articles and it seems that shorter cycles of orals seem to be relatively ok for the liver. 5-6 week cycles.
if someone were to offer me 50mg of dianabol or a shot of whiskey, dianabol would be my first choice every time.
As well as the poisioning of the liver induced by alcohol, it is also worth considering the additional stress on the CNS and the malfunction of the adrenal glands (aka - cortisol)
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
I believe it’s the 17AA AAS’s (how’s that for abbreviations) are the ones that are toxic to the liver.
My question is compared to alcohol are they far worse than alcohol? For example someone who drinks on the weekends, if they were to give it up and replace it with an oral cycle, how much worse off would the liver be?
Assuming a moderate intake mg wise daily.
[/quote]
does oral AAS stress the liver, Yes that is for sure.
if kept moderate and at a reasonable duration then they are no more damaging than any other substance that you will put through your body that us metabolised in the liver.
they are alot safer than prohormones.
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Why JF, you’re not thinking of a cycle are you?
Or is this just a ‘what if’ situation?
BBB[/quote]
this is all role play right? 
just doing some research, that’s all. I’m nowhere near ready to be doing a cycle (knowledge wise or physique wise).
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
Why JF, you’re not thinking of a cycle are you?
Or is this just a ‘what if’ situation?
BBB
this is all role play right?
just doing some research, that’s all. I’m nowhere near ready to be doing a cycle (knowledge wise or physique wise).[/quote]
Why think about the real stuff, when you have the solid gains of your superior supplements working so well for you, like 11-T and such?
[quote]InTheZone wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
Why JF, you’re not thinking of a cycle are you?
Or is this just a ‘what if’ situation?
BBB
this is all role play right?
just doing some research, that’s all. I’m nowhere near ready to be doing a cycle (knowledge wise or physique wise).
Why think about the real stuff, when you have the solid gains of your superior supplements working so well for you, like 11-T and such? [/quote]
My next question is how well does 11-T work. Has anyone tryed it?
I am not trying to knock Biotest or anything but does it work well as some orals? Does it have sides? And since its new can anyone predict those sides? This is what scares me away from trying it.
The price scares me away… 
AND the cost:results ratio… even if it works… it doesnt work like AAS!
JehovasFitness - we’d have to change your name to JehovasSwoleness or something, and you’d probably scare away half of your clients.
My client base changed drastically when i decided to get large as possible. Less old women, more guys.
JJ
[quote]dirtbag wrote:
My next question is how well does 11-T work. Has anyone tryed it?
I am not trying to knock Biotest or anything but does it work well as some orals? Does it have sides? And since its new can anyone predict those sides? This is what scares me away from trying it.[/quote]
I’ve used it. On the third bottle now. I can’t compare it’s effectiveness to that of orals (as I’ve never taken them) but I will say that it’s pretty good at getting rid of bodyfat while also maintaining strength, if not even producing some slight gains as well. Depends on how which you’re trying to do.
I’m not going to debate the effectiveness of 11-T. It has worked very well for me and a few others.
I do know of one person (that is probably near his genetic potential on this site) that didn’t notice much of anything from it.
[quote]InTheZone wrote:
Why think about the real stuff, when you have the solid gains of your superior supplements working so well for you, like 11-T and such? [/quote]
Lol, I sincerely hope that your tongue is placed firmly in your cheek, TB.
To the OP: I hope I’m wrong, but if your line of thinking is “well it’s not as bad as some other stuff that people do, so basically it’s ok” then you need to reasses your position. AAS are in fact better than drinking bleach, therefore…
[quote]Dave_ wrote:
InTheZone wrote:
Why think about the real stuff, when you have the solid gains of your superior supplements working so well for you, like 11-T and such?
Lol, I sincerely hope that your tongue is placed firmly in your cheek, TB.
To the OP: I hope I’m wrong, but if your line of thinking is “well it’s not as bad as some other stuff that people do, so basically it’s ok” then you need to reasses your position. AAS are in fact better than drinking bleach, therefore…
[/quote]
The logic is, if I’m already doing something that is damaging to the liver that we all know, and cutting that out in order to replace it with something with some actual benefits, yet the same risk factors seems like a decent trader (assuming, I want to do AAS). That’s not to say, I would just take AAS because of the fact alone. make sense?
I see why you’d think of it - but it’s faulty logic which plagues AAS boards all over the internet. You shouldn’t be drinking anyway if you’re serious about training (which I’m sure you know anyway), so it shouldn’t really be part of your internal bartering process.
If it makes you feel better about things, fine. I just don’t think you should pretend to yourself that you’re this retarded.
[quote]Dave_ wrote:
I see why you’d think of it - but it’s faulty logic which plagues AAS boards all over the internet. You shouldn’t be drinking anyway if you’re serious about training (which I’m sure you know anyway), so it shouldn’t really be part of your internal bartering process.
If it makes you feel better about things, fine. I just don’t think you should pretend to yourself that you’re this retarded. [/quote]
I’m not a competitive BBer so I’m not going to deprive myself of enjoyment with friends. Yes, alcohol is great!
(I should probably add that I only drink about twice per month, if that. Sometimes slightly more, sometimes not at all)
[quote]Dave_ wrote:
InTheZone wrote:
Why think about the real stuff, when you have the solid gains of your superior supplements working so well for you, like 11-T and such?
Lol, I sincerely hope that your tongue is placed firmly in your cheek, TB.
To the OP: I hope I’m wrong, but if your line of thinking is “well it’s not as bad as some other stuff that people do, so basically it’s ok” then you need to reasses your position. AAS are in fact better than drinking bleach, therefore…
[/quote]
Lmao! It was and still is Dave…ha, haa.
To be honest I was talking shit, but didn’t want to overdo the negativity, and thus reduced the original post to something almost half assed believable.
This is as kind as I can possibly be btw.
/rant. MWAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
“…I’m not going to debate the effectiveness of 11-T…”
[/quote]
Why not? This seems to be unnecessarily defensive and kinda rude.
I for one - while i wouldnt ever spend that kind of money, having learned the truth about over-priced supps at a young age - would be interested to know its effectiveness.
JJ
Lol, glad to hear it Tone, I thought (and hoped) you were probably being cheeky.
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
I’m not a competitive BBer so I’m not going to deprive myself of enjoyment with friends. Yes, alcohol is great!
(I should probably add that I only drink about twice per month, if that. Sometimes slightly more, sometimes not at all)[/quote]
So you’ll only be taking oral AAS twice per month? If you’re not willing to make simple sacrifices then maybe AAS aren’t for you. Alcohol is not great, it’s possibly the worst thing you can do for your training.
Anyway, do a search on BB.com or similar, and you’ll find a bunch of idiotic kids asking “witch is wers alcohols or teh steds?” and hopefully you’ll then re-read your own post and cringe.
This, plus some of the other shit you come out with, makes me scared for your PT clients.
[quote] Brook wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
“…I’m not going to debate the effectiveness of 11-T…”
Why not? This seems to be unnecessarily defensive and kinda rude.
I for one - while i wouldnt ever spend that kind of money, having learned the truth about over-priced supps at a young age - would be interested to know its effectiveness.
JJ[/quote]
Myself as well. I am not saying I am going to run out and order some. I am just skeptical cause it is new. And most of us on this board are either curious about it and how it compares to stuff we are already familiar with.
[quote] Brook wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
“…I’m not going to debate the effectiveness of 11-T…”
Why not? This seems to be unnecessarily defensive and kinda rude.
I for one - while i wouldnt ever spend that kind of money, having learned the truth about over-priced supps at a young age - would be interested to know its effectiveness.
JJ[/quote]
I could talk about it, but I’ve made 2 threads in TCA about my experience with it, along with replies to threads on the supplement board.