How many sets per training session are optimal if training 5 days per week during a cut phase?
I understand that the typical approach is to reduce volume and keep the weights high during a cut, however I’m unsure on exactly how many sets to target. Are there any guidelines on this that anyone can provide?
Thanks
It depends on how big the calorie deficit is, but it’s not a case of whether “this many” or “that many” sets are optimal - it’s about what you can do and what you can recover from whilst keeping a lot of other variables the same. Your body will be able to tell you pretty quickly that the volume is too high when the 3rd set of a 5x5 feels way harder than it needs to be.
In my mind it’s a pretty individual thing that you need to autoregulate yourself, and that’s why there’s not a huge amount of “if your training program is this then you should do this when cutting” type information out there. In one of my early posts here I was asking about cutting and ThePwnisher gave me a “how much muscle do you really expect to lose in 3-4 weeks?” message that’s stuck with me. Now I don’t know how long you plan to cut for but if you get your protein in, push each set hard, and stay with the process, your body will tell you the things you need to know - and any small amount of muscle or strength you do lose will come back QUICK.
Good luck dude.
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It’s very individual, just like bulking.
Also, a set doesn’t mean anything.
A set to failure, beyond failure, or keeping a couple of reps in reserve? They will fatigue you differently.
Big coumpound will fatigue you more than isolation.
Free weight will fatigue you more than machines or cables.
Very heavy weight to failure will fatigue you more than light weight to failure.
Lifts at which you’re inefficient will fatigue you more… etc etc
So I’d just advise, pick something you like, and train as hard as you can.
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I agree with @aldebaran
A “set” is a measurement with absolutely no value. Its like asking - how long would you need to save to buy a car. Well it depends on what kind of car, how much it costs in your country, how much you can save in a month. Anyone who would answer that question with just “this many months” without asking for you to specify stuff is full of shit.
I can do a set that will get me sick and i will have fever in the night. Some people can do 20 sets and not stimulate anything besides joint overuse.
There are no general rules in this because there is nothing general about it.
Also, even if you would specify what a set is in your opinion, we would still need to know your MRV and MEV.
Maybe you bulk on 6 sets a week like Dave Palumbo. Maybe you bulk on 20 sets like Lee Priest. What is a serious decrease for one, can be double the volume for other.
Also since you didnt add any pictures we dont even know if whatever you do for bulking is working.
Anyway, i tend to not switch stuff up when i cut. I believe i need to do as close to what i always did, to maintain muscle on lower calories. What i would do tho, is i would reset my training maxes and just start a few cycles lower than where i would go if id continue bulking. So basically like 2 months of training percentages backwards. Its also a good way to see if you are losing muscle. Because if after these 2 months i am back to where i was according to my program, and the numbers are close to same, it means i have cut and not lost muscle.
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Thanks for the responses guys and you are correct I have not provided enough detail here.
Previously when cutting I did a 4 week cycle, 7 sets per workout x 5 days on ~1100 cal deficit.
This was focused around heavier lifts (squats, deads, bench) for half of each workout with half accessories (E.g. ez bar bicep curls etc).
I was taking all sets to as close to failure as possible, maximum 1 rep in the tank on any set.
Doing this I was actually able to go up slightly in strength over the period (say 1% add to each lifts over 4 week period). It felt pretty good for weeks 1-3 and week 4 I started to feel very fatigued so I did not go further than this. I’ve done this approach a few times now and i’d say it works better for me than extremely prolonged periods of cutting (even if the deficit is lower).
However, I did lose lean mass more than just glycogen/water.
So I’m trying to figure out what to adjust here to reduce that.
Thanks,
Comparing sets between dudes may be troublesome, but you can count you vs you. If 7 sets is too much, 5 sets is probably Optimal.
4 sets is probably a good Minimum number of sets to start off the training cycle. Like your easy break-in week.
Then you can add a little volume over the training cycle by increasing to 5 sets for 2-3 weeks. And then 6 sets for 2-3 weeks. If you feel strong you can push to 7 sets per week, for 1 week as a tough “overload” week.
That makes 6 or 8 weeks of training with an average of 5 sets. Optimal numbers and built in progression.
From there you could back off, down to 3-4 sets for a week, as a little “Deload.” While you Slightly up the calories to rebuild glycogen/water. Then you attack the process again!
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In 4 weeks? I find that highly doubtful. Nothing noticeable anyway.
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You were in the “dead zone” where you had lost some fat, but also glycogen and water and you looked bad because you had not lost enough fat yet to really look good.
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You simply didn’t have as much lean mass as you thought.
Some people go on crazy diets, like they cut their calories in half. Nothing of the sort will happen so fast.
But yeah, people usually do better on bouts of strict diet followed by maintenance (read the Icecap study).
Perhaps a 1100 deficit is too much for you to sustain with your current lifestyle. But I wouldn’t sweat about volume. 7 sets beyond failure is really low volume, you will be fine. The answer lies elsewhere.
I’ve had successful cuts with more than 3 times this volume
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I don’t think you actually lost any muscle either, but don’t forget about the other side of the spectrum: maybe you’d thrive on more volume? How much were you doing before you dropped calories? 35 sets per week is definitely on the low side (again, I don’t think so low you lost muscle).
What probably happened:
- You felt terrible from your deficit
- You had no pump because of the deficit
- You weren’t getting pumps in the gym, either (maybe higher volume helps here?)
- You weren’t yet lean enough to see daily changes
Those added up to disappointment. I get it! Dieting is psychological.
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Thanks - I’m not pre-empting that I should go lower… I’m just wondering how to know how many is optimal.
Or is the general answer to try to go as high as I can whilst still being able to maintain the strength?
That depends of your actual bodyfat and your targeted bodyfat. If you’re trying to get to 8% you’ll lose a bit of strength no matter what you do. But otherwise, yeah I think it’s a good indicator !
Personally nowadays I prefer to move more and eat more than diminish too much my calories, so I can still perform (end of cut at around 2500 cals without counting cheats)
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You’re losing friends
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Also walking ~15 000 steps and adding a few cardio sessions 
but yeah being 6’1 can be useful
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That makes it worse! I remember when I stopped growing. Sad day for TfP. I think I was like 14!
Anyway, I’ll stop derailing; you should definitely feel free to expand on your cardio philosophy. I always struggled to manage it as a variable, and preferred to just keep dropping food because that was more controllable. I’d much rather eat more and do more, within the practical realities of real life - we don’t have endless time, but I never seemed to be able to make that actually work once I left the Army and wasn’t on my feet all day. Maybe it’s because I insist on training like a bodybuilder and am leaving too much opportunity to get my heart rate up on the table.
I completely agree yeah. I don’t have a wife and kids so I have more time for that, and I take it.
I tried the “eat less” before and sure I ended up lean but not looking as good or performing as good at all.
I’m guessing if I had really no time I’ll try to squeeze in 20-40 mins of cardio daily then
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I can’t say I have no time - there’s always half an hour for cardio. It’s just very different from the always on your feet running around kind of time.
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This is where so many people panic and end their cuts, especially if the strength has started to decline also. I lost 15-20lbs in 6-8weeks at the beginning of the year. My shirts started to look too big for me, my arms nowhere near filling the sleeves etc I started to lose faith. As soon as I entered the bulk again with all that glycogen and water coming back I found myself wishing I stuck it out for a few weeks longer. I’m not interested in being too lean, 15-20% is my happy place. Super convenient as even with a 1000+ deficit strength or energy didn’t really decline. Going from ~22%+ to 15% was dead easy and I even feel I could have upped the pace a little more. Anything below that and I’d have started to struggle.
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Thanks. Some other somewhat related questions… Understand these are all person specific but still interested in your thoughts on general philosophy… With big lifts is it better to do one insane set or 2-3 slightly more moderate sets.
Example my max 8 rep deadlift is 205kg. I’d say this is 100% or close to it… I could probably do another rep gun to my head but not with acceptable form.
So am I better off targeting 206x8 for one set next session, or going for a more moderate 195 x 8 for 2 sets?
This is where I get confused as to whether I should just go bare bones set numbers and keep going for PBs or back off a bit and get out a couple of extra sets.
IF we are going for the more sets approach, should I just be doing 2 sets the same, e.g. 2sets x 195x8 OR is it better to taper it up e.g. 185 x 8 then 200 x 8?.. Interested in your thoughts on this question across all training cycles (e.g. not limited to cutting).
Thanks 
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‘I think I lost muscle’ is usually a comfort blanket for the grim realisation that you actually never really built any muscle IMO
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I think at this point you’re overthinking it dude. The answer to “across all training cycles” is yes to all of the above. Everything will work until it doesn’t, then you change it up. How well it works is highly individual based on your training history.
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Exaaaactly I just lost 7 kilos, want to lose a couple more. The first 5 kilos lost I just looked worse. It’s only now that i’m beginning to look real good
First of all, nice lift, that’s strong! Then, you wanna know a gym secret…
What you believe in is what will work. Trust me, if something excites you, you really love a training philosophy, you give it your all, it will be better than the “optimal” program.
Then, what to do with your deadlift… It depends of your goals, and what you respond to.
But generally for strength, you will be better off keeping reps in the tank, perfect form, and several sets (it can be across the week) because strength will be built mostly on intra and inter-muscular coordination, and CNS efficiency.
Some people are spending a lot of their time trying to figure out the perfect formula (like Mike Israetel). I believe the human body is an incredible, complex machine, but I don’t believe it makes such a difference lol.
Just stick to a model for a few weeks and see what you prefer/respond better to.
In all cases, what matter the most is EFFORT
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