Opinions of Krav Maga?

[rundymc]

I’ll give you an example from my own experience in BJJ and Karate before it. Both sports have been sold at some point as self-defense. With that in mind, there are numerous positions in BJJ that I would NEVER want to end up in an altercation/attack. There are numerous techniques I learned in Karate that I would never use in a real fight.

BJJ/wrestling/boxing, these are martial arts and sports. Most guys that do them seriously do them for their own sake. Ask anyone who’s been on the mat for more than a year what they’re trying to accomplish, most will say “I’m trying to become a better boxer/grappler”. The ones that learn the sport for the sake of self defense usually stop after a few months… because by then they’ve learned all they need to know to handle themselves (at least in BJJ/wrestling, can’t speak for boxing).

All that said, point of Krav is self-defense, and as has been iterated in this thread multiple times, self defense is more than having physical skills. It’s about building sound reactions, keeping calm under pressure, identifying threats etc etc.

But yes, I’ve seen a couple ridiculous Krav places (pseudo MMA, lol).

[Sentoguy]

[quote]krazylarry wrote:
People can learn to box and wrestle but how many pro fighters do you see that still can do it, Jack Sheilds-boxing, Phil Baroni, Dan Hardy, Pat Barry, and these are guys who fight in the best promotion in the sport. So maybe everyone can’t do it, yet any one can bite you. So why pay 150 bucks a month to “learn” something you already can do?[/quote]

Not sure exactly what you were saying with that first sentence. Were you actually putting Jake Shields, Phil Baroni, Dan Hardy, and Pat Barry in the same category in terms of boxing/wrestling skill?

Anyone can punch or wrestle, but it takes time to learn how to do it on a high level. The same is true with biting. Anyone can bite, but it takes time to learn how to do it skillfully.

And besides, even if you are going to argue that biting requires less time to become proficient at than striking or wrestling, doesn’t that make it even more desirable from a self defense standpoint?

Say we have a 110 lb woman who has been training self defense (boxing/kickboxing, wrestling/BJJ, biting, eye attacks, nerve attacks, body handles, and weaponry) for a couple months and she is attacked by a 260 lb college linebacker. What do you think she’s going to have a better chance of pulling off with that amount of training history, boxing/wrestling him to victory, or biting the guy, throwing something into his eyes (powder make-up, hot liquid, salt/pepper/other spices/etc…) and smashing him over the head with an iron/frying pan and running out of there?

I’m not putting boxing or wrestling down in any way. Those are two skill sets that I think anyone serious about self defense should learn as they will definitely improve your ability to defend yourself. I just don’t get why people buy into this idea that they are the ONLY effective skill sets or that NOT training all of the other effective skill sets (biting, eye attacks, nerve attacks, body handles, and weaponry) will make you a more effective Martial Artist/fighter.

[Sentoguy]

[quote]rundymc wrote:
BJJ/wrestling/boxing, these are martial arts and sports. Most guys that do them seriously do them for their own sake. Ask anyone who’s been on the mat for more than a year what they’re trying to accomplish, most will say “I’m trying to become a better boxer/grappler”. The ones that learn the sport for the sake of self defense usually stop after a few months… because by then they’ve learned all they need to know to handle themselves (at least in BJJ/wrestling, can’t speak for boxing).
[/quote]

See, I just don’t get that mindset (regarding the self defense practitioner). Boxing/kickboxing and grappling are skills which require countless repetitions to truly become proficient at, and then require at least some continued practice to maintain that proficiency. To think that because you “learned a move to escape from side control” means that you now don’t have to continue to train that skill just boggles my mind. After a few months of training there is no way in hell that you have developed the necessary level of skill needed to pull off those skills under high levels of adrenal stress, nor to synergize those skills together effectively.

It’s ironic that the people who are simply trying to win some (relatively worthless) trophy or medal will train their hearts out while those who are training to save their life or the life of a loved one (ultimately much more valuable things) are only willing to put in a couple months of training.

[Ranzo]

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]rundymc wrote:
BJJ/wrestling/boxing, these are martial arts and sports. Most guys that do them seriously do them for their own sake. Ask anyone who’s been on the mat for more than a year what they’re trying to accomplish, most will say “I’m trying to become a better boxer/grappler”. The ones that learn the sport for the sake of self defense usually stop after a few months… because by then they’ve learned all they need to know to handle themselves (at least in BJJ/wrestling, can’t speak for boxing).
[/quote]

See, I just don’t get that mindset (regarding the self defense practitioner). Boxing/kickboxing and grappling are skills which require countless repetitions to truly become proficient at, and then require at least some continued practice to maintain that proficiency. To think that because you “learned a move to escape from side control” means that you now don’t have to continue to train that skill just boggles my mind. After a few months of training there is no way in hell that you have developed the necessary level of skill needed to pull off those skills under high levels of adrenal stress, nor to synergize those skills together effectively.

It’s ironic that the people who are simply trying to win some (relatively worthless) trophy or medal will train their hearts out while those who are training to save their life or the life of a loved one (ultimately much more valuable things) are only willing to put in a couple months of training.[/quote]

You can’t believe how much I agree with this. After training a couple different arts and doing Krav for a while, I decided to do some MMA fights, granted not a street confrontation, and what I learned from doing my first fight would take months and months in the gym to learn and then you might not ever get it.

Getting in a fight with someone who really really wants to smash your brains in brings the effectiveness of your techniques to the table and it will certainly test your will to fight. A lot of things you see and use in the gym or dojo whatever go right out your ass in a real fight and it takes experience, fortitude and practice to be relaxed enough and have the situational awareness to use them that is why I go by the statement that you will not rise to the occasion you will default to your level of training.

That is why I feel most people practicing are wasting there time or it is just some sort of excercise for them.

that being the case when training you have to keep in mind that you don’t know how your attacker is going to respond to your defenses, if he is pissed or enraged or on PCP… whatever your strikes may have no immediate effects.

I will say that my school does a good job of covering this and look at the ability to make the best defense you can and get the hell out of there and if it dosen’t work then what do you do next. I feel that even that is not enough sometimes.

[anon31651765]

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Like I said, it’s rare. I’m not suggesting that it’s a common occurrence.
[/quote]

It’s rare enough that it really isn’t worth training for. If you spend a lot of time on it, you’re wasting that time, and if you don’t train it often though, whatever you learned is useless because you’re not practiced enough.

In theory it’s easy to think about how one would just use a different tool, but under adrenal stress things can change. I’m not saying that it happens to everyone, but there are numerous cases where LEOs have been killed by knife wielding attackers because they became fixated on deploying their firearm to the exclusion of all else. And LEOs are trained individuals.

I do agree that completely disregarding their other tools could be detrimental though.

I honestly just don’t have enough practice with weapons to know about this, so I’ll defer to you on it for now.

Trying to disarm a knife wielding attacker is definitely far from the best approach, especially with a light blade like a box cutter or razor. But, thinking that you are going to be able to slip or dodge against one is just as impractical.

One of the things that makes edged weapons so dangerous is that they require almost no momentum to do damage. All they have to do is to touch you and they can inflict damage. Because of this they can come at completely unorthodox angles and don’t have to follow a straight trajectory to their target.

There is no way in hell that you (or anyone else) is going to be able to move your whole body as fast as I (or any other even remotely fast individual) can move their arm. Since no body mass is required to do damage, I am also free to continuously attack at any angle that I want with literally no telegraph whatsoever.

Now, if you were able to just maintain distance, then that could work, but since your attacker can run forwards faster than you can run backwards that strategy will only buy you a little time, (not to mention there are environmental factors to take into account). And, the longer the confrontation lasts, the more likely you won’t make it out alive. Eventually you are going to have to either completely escape, draw your own weapon and convince the attacker that they don’t want to continue pursuing you (in which case the knife on knife “duel” could ensue), or take out the attacker (which would be the last resort/worst case scenario, but you still need tactics to enable you to do this).

We agree on most of this - we’re not arguing the same point. My point initially was that nobody teaches you how to deal with a box cutter - they teach you tactics that work only on big ass bowie knives that you’ll never get attacked with.

Hell, how many training knives look like a folding knife? They should, because that’s what you’re most likely to encounter in the street, because few people (at least around here) are carrying fixed blade hunting knives.

Or, teach them how to deal with box cutters. Good luck disarming a guy with that or a razor - your only move anyway is going to grab an improvised weapon and try to trap that arm and hit and rip and claw with the other.

But few places teach that. They just teach the same old worthless shit - how to disarm an idiotic, slow opponent armed with a bowie knife after he does a leaping thrust at you and pauses so you can kung fu him.

It’s fucking garbage.

Well, let’s look at it the other way then. Let’s say that you go into an unarmed vs knife situation with the thought that you will make it out without getting cut. Guess what? You most likely are. So when you do then you aren’t going to be mentally prepared for it and are probably going to freeze up or worse yet, give up.

At least if you are mentally prepared for the worst case scenario (you always want to believe that you will survive the encounter though, so worst case that still leaves you alive at the end) then you won’t freak out if it happens. If it doesn’t and you get extremely lucky and don’t get cut, then even better.

You’ve only lost if you give up, and preparing yourself mentally and emotionally for the worst case scenario is much less likely to result in you giving up than preparing yourself for the best case scenario.

I am not sure about this. There’s no way to replicate being cut, there’s no way to replicate being shot, and there’s not any way to teach people how to really deal with the shock that comes with it.

Instilling that “Never say die” attitude is probably the only way to do it, but you’re not getting that out of your twice a week karate class.

I think that’s some kind of bullshit that housewives or lawyers or middle management jerkoffs are going to tell themselves- “I’m prepared to get cut” - then they cut and pass the fuck out.

The mental preparation needed to survive an encounter like that is something that a lot of arts are never going to give you, and ironically, it’s more likely that you’ll get it from the sporting arts, which are teaching you to keep punching (or grappling) through exhaustion, through pain, and no matter what.

Tell you what, have one of your (boxing) friends don some headgear and attack you with a magic marker or rubber training knife who’s blade is marked with lipstick or magic marker. You can dodge, slip, run, strike, whatever you want (as long as you’re unarmed). His job is to “kill” you with the knife, yours is only to survive. Have then fully resist you, no compliance whatsoever. See how many times out of 10 (I’d say more, but your friend is probably going to get tired of getting punched in the head by then and is going to want to reverse the roles) that you don’t get cut. If you are successful more than 1-2 times out of those 10 then either you are exceptionally fast, exceptionally lucky, or your partner is a chump.

Like I said, it’s just being honest.

Again - I’m not arguing that. I know that. I’m just saying that it’s like telling someone going into battle - expect to get shot.

It’s the quickest way to get someone cowering in the corner.

[Sentoguy]

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
It’s rare enough that it really isn’t worth training for. If you spend a lot of time on it, you’re wasting that time, and if you don’t train it often though, whatever you learned is useless because you’re not practiced enough.
[/quote]

For the most part I agree. Though, certainly individual environments/circumstances/cultural practices might change that. I still feel that it’s worthwhile to at least have some skills for that situation, but spending an inordinate amount of time on it wouldn’t be very wise.

I honestly just don’t have enough practice with weapons to know about this, so I’ll defer to you on it for now.

Fair enough.

We agree on most of this - we’re not arguing the same point. My point initially was that nobody teaches you how to deal with a box cutter - they teach you tactics that work only on big ass bowie knives that you’ll never get attacked with.

Hell, how many training knives look like a folding knife? They should, because that’s what you’re most likely to encounter in the street, because few people (at least around here) are carrying fixed blade hunting knives.

Or, teach them how to deal with box cutters. Good luck disarming a guy with that or a razor - your only move anyway is going to grab an improvised weapon and try to trap that arm and hit and rip and claw with the other.

But few places teach that. They just teach the same old worthless shit - how to disarm an idiotic, slow opponent armed with a bowie knife after he does a leaping thrust at you and pauses so you can kung fu him.

It’s fucking garbage.

Yeah, I can totally agree with you on that.

I am not sure about this. There’s no way to replicate being cut, there’s no way to replicate being shot, and there’s not any way to teach people how to really deal with the shock that comes with it.

Instilling that “Never say die” attitude is probably the only way to do it, but you’re not getting that out of your twice a week karate class.

I think that’s some kind of bullshit that housewives or lawyers or middle management jerkoffs are going to tell themselves- “I’m prepared to get cut” - then they cut and pass the fuck out.

The mental preparation needed to survive an encounter like that is something that a lot of arts are never going to give you, and ironically, it’s more likely that you’ll get it from the sporting arts, which are teaching you to keep punching (or grappling) through exhaustion, through pain, and no matter what.

I totally agree with you that you are not going to develop that “never say die” attitude from doing 2x a week classes and that things like being forced to persevere through exhaustion and pain will usually be more effective in developing that mindset. But, I think that a combination of mental preparation/fear management/emotional conditioning AND hard physical training is better than either in isolation. A good RMA/Self Defense system should have both IMO.

Again - I’m not arguing that. I know that. I’m just saying that it’s like telling someone going into battle - expect to get shot.

It’s the quickest way to get someone cowering in the corner.

I can see what you’re saying.

Fear management is one area of combat that really should be a huge part of any self defense training, but sadly there are few who truly understand it or teach it.

[Miss_Parker]

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

Hell, how many training knives look like a folding knife? They should, because that’s what you’re most likely to encounter in the street, because few people (at least around here) are carrying fixed blade hunting knives.

[/quote]

I’ve never been able to find a training knife that looks like a folding knife. Best option so far has been water based markers that are about as long as my folding knife when opened & will mark you so you know where you got “cut”. People get a little rattled when they see the marks…but it still doesn’t look anything like a folding knife.

I have an idea - I’ll hit up the kiddie section of a store & see if I can find rubber or plastic cutlery that includes a little knife. Still sucks getting jabbed with hard plastic, if anybody has any other ideas, let’s have them.

[Robert_A]

[quote]Miss Parker wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

Hell, how many training knives look like a folding knife? They should, because that’s what you’re most likely to encounter in the street, because few people (at least around here) are carrying fixed blade hunting knives.

[/quote]

I’ve never been able to find a training knife that looks like a folding knife. Best option so far has been water based markers that are about as long as my folding knife when opened & will mark you so you know where you got “cut”. People get a little rattled when they see the marks…but it still doesn’t look anything like a folding knife.

I have an idea - I’ll hit up the kiddie section of a store & see if I can find rubber or plastic cutlery that includes a little knife. Still sucks getting jabbed with hard plastic, if anybody has any other ideas, let’s have them.
[/quote]

Toys are often brittle enough to break and then cut you, or they are so damn soft they bend/whip around. Not worth the dollars in my opinion.

Spyderco makes training models of their folders. These are metal, so they are good for actually practicing getting the knife into action when you are attacked, but are probably no good for hard contact because you will run out of partners.

For the contact stuff. Take cardboard. Use your own blade as a rough pattern. So lay it on the cardboard, trace it very roughly, then flip it over keeping the spine of the blade in contact with the paper. Cut out the pattern and fold it so it is doubled over. Use tape to wrap the “blade”/bind the doubled over knife together., I like electrical tape because it is smooth (if you want a silver blade you can get colored electrical tape from a craft store). You can wrap a bunch of tape around the handle to bulk it up but I don’t bother. Now you have a cardboard knife that should have the cutting surfaces completely covered in smooth tape. Make a bunch more because these are disposable. They will hold up to light training for a while, but the blade will fold over/break down rather than pierce or cut. That is intentional. You still need eye protection. If you really get a good stab in with proper geometry you may even be able to bruise/crack a rib, but it is very unlikely you will do any serious damage even at full speed. They will hurt bad enough that people don’t get cavalier about getting hit though. Also you can make any shape so box cutters, screw drivers, shanks, etc. are all available.

For “sparring”/contact drills where you are in training gear. Take a small length of 1 inch PVC pipe. Wrap the pipe with foam rubber insulation. Tape the shit out of it. Draw a line straight down one side lenghtwise. This is the back of the blade/spine so you don’t lose track of orientation. These WILL crack ribs/bruise or break fingers and hands so hockey gloves, and fencing head gear is what I would suggest. Chest protectors optional/situational. Again, the goal is to make the training knife disposable so that if the padding wears at all you just make a new one.

Just some suggestions. Your milage may vary. Wear eye protection at all times.

Regards,

Robert A

[Miss_Parker]

Robert A brings the awesome. I’ll do it & let you know how it goes. Thanks!

Regards,

Parker W (hee hee)

[krazylarry]

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]krazylarry wrote:
People can learn to box and wrestle but how many pro fighters do you see that still can do it, Jack Sheilds-boxing, Phil Baroni, Dan Hardy, Pat Barry, and these are guys who fight in the best promotion in the sport. So maybe everyone can’t do it, yet any one can bite you. So why pay 150 bucks a month to “learn” something you already can do?[/quote]

Not sure exactly what you were saying with that first sentence. Were you actually putting Jake Shields, Phil Baroni, Dan Hardy, and Pat Barry in the same category in terms of boxing/wrestling skill?

Anyone can punch or wrestle, but it takes time to learn how to do it on a high level. The same is true with biting. Anyone can bite, but it takes time to learn how to do it skillfully.

And besides, even if you are going to argue that biting requires less time to become proficient at than striking or wrestling, doesn’t that make it even more desirable from a self defense standpoint?

Say we have a 110 lb woman who has been training self defense (boxing/kickboxing, wrestling/BJJ, biting, eye attacks, nerve attacks, body handles, and weaponry) for a couple months and she is attacked by a 260 lb college linebacker. What do you think she’s going to have a better chance of pulling off with that amount of training history, boxing/wrestling him to victory, or biting the guy, throwing something into his eyes (powder make-up, hot liquid, salt/pepper/other spices/etc…) and smashing him over the head with an iron/frying pan and running out of there?

I’m not putting boxing or wrestling down in any way. Those are two skill sets that I think anyone serious about self defense should learn as they will definitely improve your ability to defend yourself. I just don’t get why people buy into this idea that they are the ONLY effective skill sets or that NOT training all of the other effective skill sets (biting, eye attacks, nerve attacks, body handles, and weaponry) will make you a more effective Martial Artist/fighter.[/quote]
Did you really just say you need to learn how to bite skillfully?
I’m saying KM is a scam because you pay 150 bucks a month to have someone teach you how to bite. This is not something you should be paying for. Can you show me one real fight where a KM guy fights? i have looked and not found any.

In the situation that chick is screwed, not matter what, unless she has a knife or a gun. KM, boxing, is not going to change that.
I’m saying if you are going to pay someone to teach you a skill, have it be a real skill, boxing, wrestling, ect. Not play acting like KM does.

[Aussie_Davo]

[quote]Robert A wrote:

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
Kind of on topic - I’ll never understand some of the Israeli weapon handling methods

Fair to say, I’m no firearms experts, especially in the realm of combat shooting, but it still makes me scratch my head sometimes watching videos of them teaching shooting.[/quote]

I think I know what you are saying/asking.

The reasonable answers I have been told/read/come up with are as follows.

We need to look at the time and what was going on when this developed.

Israel was a new country, and not wealthy. The handguns being used were a hodge podge of models, action types, and calibers. Many of the handguns were older, pre WWII models/designs.

Good holsters, especially concealment holsters, were not readily available or were in limited supply.

So, the Israelis had to instruct people on how to fight with handguns that were vastly different from one another. Some of them were clearly designed by people who never shot or seldom shot. Most were used by military forces as an indicator of rank. For example, the 1934 model Berreta had a safety that needs to be rotated 180 degrees to operate. There are others just as fucked. Some were single action autos, some were double action autos, some were revolvers. Safeties, magazine releases, slide releases were in all different places or absent. So, for safety and a uniform manual of arms, Condition 3 (magazine loaded, chamber empty, hammer down, safety off) was the order across the board.

Since there were a ton of different models and leather holster makers are a rare breed they needed a method that did not need a specialized/custom fit holster (this is before kydex) that most everyone else would take for granted. This also supported the codition 3 method because the pistol was either tucked in the front of the wasteband (appendix/“Mexican Carry”/AIWB) or behind the hip sans holster.

In order to get the gun into action they needed to teach acquiring a grip, drawing/presentation, and get the weapon charged/racking the slide. Note: straight blowback pistols (its a type of operating mechanism) can be a bitch to rack, especially if you are sweaty/bloody, and especially/especially if you are a small women or elderly. So they settled on the whole punch the pistol forward while racking the slide so that rather than just one arm doing it you get a push/pull thing going.

The emphasis on point shooting is probably due to 3 factors. First, after WWII the authority on handgun technique for combat was Rex Applegate, and he espoused point shooting. This is years before Jeff Cooper would re-write the book with Modern Technique. And more years before the post-Modern Technique stuff we see now. Second, at close range point shooting/over the sights/slide focus is pretty damn effective. Third, have you ever tried using the sights on vintage 1920’s/30’s/40’s pistols? I have seen more usable sights on squirt guns. The Eastern Block stuff is even worse. Tiny sights, that cannot be adjusted are not all that useful when your inner voice is saying “Oh fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck…” and your problems are so bad your current best solution is to start flinging tiny pieces of metal through the air in order to make bad things stop right now.

Regards,

Robert A[/quote]

Thanks Robert, that clears up a lot of stuff for me.

[anon31651765]

[quote]krazylarry wrote:
Did you really just say you need to learn how to bite skillfully?
I’m saying KM is a scam because you pay 150 bucks a month to have someone teach you how to bite. This is not something you should be paying for. Can you show me one real fight where a KM guy fights? i have looked and not found any.

In the situation that chick is screwed, not matter what, unless she has a knife or a gun. KM, boxing, is not going to change that.
I’m saying if you are going to pay someone to teach you a skill, have it be a real skill, boxing, wrestling, ect. Not play acting like KM does. [/quote]

I think you’re generalizing pretty badly here and being generally inaccurate.

They do way more than “teach you how to bite,” and as I’ve said before, the one thing they really do well that will serve ANYONE good is pound the shit out of you and MAKE you keep going - and it’s that, more than any technique that anyone teaches, that is going to get you out of trouble if you get into it.

I don’t think you are being fair.

[Sentoguy]

[quote]krazylarry wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]krazylarry wrote:
People can learn to box and wrestle but how many pro fighters do you see that still can do it, Jack Sheilds-boxing, Phil Baroni, Dan Hardy, Pat Barry, and these are guys who fight in the best promotion in the sport. So maybe everyone can’t do it, yet any one can bite you. So why pay 150 bucks a month to “learn” something you already can do?[/quote]

Not sure exactly what you were saying with that first sentence. Were you actually putting Jake Shields, Phil Baroni, Dan Hardy, and Pat Barry in the same category in terms of boxing/wrestling skill?

Anyone can punch or wrestle, but it takes time to learn how to do it on a high level. The same is true with biting. Anyone can bite, but it takes time to learn how to do it skillfully.

And besides, even if you are going to argue that biting requires less time to become proficient at than striking or wrestling, doesn’t that make it even more desirable from a self defense standpoint?

Say we have a 110 lb woman who has been training self defense (boxing/kickboxing, wrestling/BJJ, biting, eye attacks, nerve attacks, body handles, and weaponry) for a couple months and she is attacked by a 260 lb college linebacker. What do you think she’s going to have a better chance of pulling off with that amount of training history, boxing/wrestling him to victory, or biting the guy, throwing something into his eyes (powder make-up, hot liquid, salt/pepper/other spices/etc…) and smashing him over the head with an iron/frying pan and running out of there?

I’m not putting boxing or wrestling down in any way. Those are two skill sets that I think anyone serious about self defense should learn as they will definitely improve your ability to defend yourself. I just don’t get why people buy into this idea that they are the ONLY effective skill sets or that NOT training all of the other effective skill sets (biting, eye attacks, nerve attacks, body handles, and weaponry) will make you a more effective Martial Artist/fighter.[/quote]
Did you really just say you need to learn how to bite skillfully?
I’m saying KM is a scam because you pay 150 bucks a month to have someone teach you how to bite. This is not something you should be paying for. Can you show me one real fight where a KM guy fights? i have looked and not found any.

In the situation that chick is screwed, not matter what, unless she has a knife or a gun. KM, boxing, is not going to change that.
I’m saying if you are going to pay someone to teach you a skill, have it be a real skill, boxing, wrestling, ect. Not play acting like KM does. [/quote]

Yes, I said that you can learn how to bite skillfully and, just like any other combative skill, you need to practice it if you really want to maximize your effectiveness when using it. I have talked about this numerous times on this forum, if you want to go back and read what I have written go ahead, if not then don’t. Either way I know that what I am saying is the truth because I have experiential knowledge of it.

If all Krav taught was biting (which would be more like Kino Mutai), then I could see having a problem with them charging that type of money. Then again, if they are teaching biting as simply one effective skill set for self defense (especially when talking about smaller less physically individuals), then I have no problem with that.

In regards to a “real” fight example, first real Martial artists are not going to get into “fights”, but instead might find themselves in a self defense situation (which are totally different things). Such situations are unlikely to be caught on camera and thus be able to be posted on youtube. Women especially are unlikely to “pick a fight” with a larger, physically superior man in front of their friend’s camera and then post the results on youtube.

And even then we are only talking about the physical portion of a fight/self defense situation.

Let’s say that someone tries to pick a fight with a Krav guy and the Krav guy uses verbal and postural de-escalation tactics to talk the would be assailant out of wanting to fight, then goes home to his family, sleeps in his own bed, and resumes life as he knows it the next day. Would you say that he “won” that fight?

Now let’s take the same situation and say that the Krav guy instead lets his ego get the best of him and accepts the would be assailant’s challenge. The Krav guy gets some minor scrapes, maybe a black eye, but winds up smashing the opponent’s head into the pavement repeatedly until they become unconscious. The police then show up, arrest him, take the attacker to the hospital and he gets to spend the night in jail. He then has to appear before a judge and jury of his peers who deem that he was not justified in using the level of force that he did and could have walked away from the fight altogether, so find him guilty of assault and battery. The sentence is then increased when they find out that he has had formal martial arts training and he winds up spending several years in prison.

Boxing and wrestling are great skill sets (like I have said many times before), but they are both entirely “active combat” oriented skill sets and will teach a person nothing, absolutely nothing about how to avoid letting things get to that point in a fight (which is the smartest route to take in many situations). They are also two combat sports where there are weight classes and are divided by sex (most of the time). That’s great if you are interested in competing in combat sports; not so great if you are by nature a physically inferior person (no offense meant ladies), or might have to fight much larger opponents, multiple opponents, or outside of their rules in some other way (weapons, ambush attacks, etc…).

As part of a larger whole however (which would include things like biting, groin strikes, weapons, etc…) they will definitely make someone a more effective “fighter”.

And, if you want to believe that about the woman in that situation, fine belive it. You’d be wrong, but believe what you want.

[Miss_Parker]

Sentoguy, you are a very patient man.

[anon31651765]

And by the way, as long as your krav maga class teaches you to punch in a straight line instead of the retarded swinging shit most people do, it’s been worth the money.

If it teaches you a couple combinations, you’re won. And you’ll probably be able to win 90 percent of the streetfights you might get in by just punching straight.

[Miss_Parker]

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
And by the way, as long as your krav maga class teaches you to punch in a straight line instead of the retarded swinging shit most people do, it’s been worth the money.

If it teaches you a couple combinations, you’re won. And you’ll probably be able to win 90 percent of the streetfights you might get in by just punching straight.[/quote]

Amen. I am freaking printing that out & taping it on the mirror at the gym. I swear to God we worked combinations just this morning with a focus on sending the jabs & crosses out in a straight line. Am still having trouble getting them to loosen up on hooks, though. Right now they’re moving their bodies as one unit, like Frankenstein’s monster.

I wonder what happened to the OP? LessTravelled, if you’re around please tell us how your class went.

[grayman19]

I might be late to the party here, but I’ll drop what I have. Krav Maga is a fighting system designed to win fights hard and fast. It is, however, not unique in this regard. However, there are many fighting systems around that do the same thing. There is no magic to it, and knowing it won’t make your dick 3 inches longer. The most important part of it and any other fighting system is the mindset, which is what the instructor should really be teaching.

Rather than pick a fighting system, I suggest picking an instructor. Ask around for a list to veritable instructors and courses. Sentoguy could probably help you, as could google.

[anon31651765]

[quote]Miss Parker wrote:

Amen. I am freaking printing that out & taping it on the mirror at the gym. I swear to God we worked combinations just this morning with a focus on sending the jabs & crosses out in a straight line. Am still having trouble getting them to loosen up on hooks, though. Right now they’re moving their bodies as one unit, like Frankenstein’s monster.
[/quote]

Give them time. Hooks are hard to learn and most folks do them wrong. My hook is terrible, it’s something that I’ve been doing wrong for years and only now am trying to correct… it’s very difficult.

[Ranzo]

I just have one question. What Krav Maga school teaches biting? haha certainly not any of the Worldwide affilitates. Kicking to the groin, hell yes, eye poking or pressure point manipulation especially on the ground hell yes. The training is not for a fair fight so anything goes. I don’t see how it is a scam.

[rundymc]

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]rundymc wrote:
BJJ/wrestling/boxing, these are martial arts and sports. Most guys that do them seriously do them for their own sake. Ask anyone who’s been on the mat for more than a year what they’re trying to accomplish, most will say “I’m trying to become a better boxer/grappler”. The ones that learn the sport for the sake of self defense usually stop after a few months… because by then they’ve learned all they need to know to handle themselves (at least in BJJ/wrestling, can’t speak for boxing).
[/quote]

See, I just don’t get that mindset (regarding the self defense practitioner). Boxing/kickboxing and grappling are skills which require countless repetitions to truly become proficient at, and then require at least some continued practice to maintain that proficiency. To think that because you “learned a move to escape from side control” means that you now don’t have to continue to train that skill just boggles my mind. After a few months of training there is no way in hell that you have developed the necessary level of skill needed to pull off those skills under high levels of adrenal stress, nor to synergize those skills together effectively.

It’s ironic that the people who are simply trying to win some (relatively worthless) trophy or medal will train their hearts out while those who are training to save their life or the life of a loved one (ultimately much more valuable things) are only willing to put in a couple months of training.[/quote]

Never thought of it that way, nice.