My bet is on the bear. Here’s a video of a similar scenario but on a much smaller scale.
30 hornets vs 30,000 bees.
The hornets are 5 times the size of the bees.
Easy work in 3 hours… not even a contest.
Why couldn’t the bees sting the hornets. I never did once see a bee attack the hornet from the flank. Seems like the soldiers would always go heads up. And there was no way tis could go positive due to the size difference.
seem like the hornet attack was to use the jaws, snap the thorax and throw it. And continue to the next. they worked as mechanically as warehouse workers slinging boxes.
[quote]djrobins wrote:
Why couldn’t the bees sting the hornets. I never did once see a bee attack the hornet from the flank. Seems like the soldiers would always go heads up. And there was no way tis could go positive due to the size difference.
seem like the hornet attack was to use the jaws, snap the thorax and throw it. And continue to the next. they worked as mechanically as warehouse workers slinging boxes. [/quote]
Honeybee stings are really short and not as rigid as a wasps or hornets. So stinging them isn’t a great option. But rest assured the worker bees tried to sting any hornet they could. But know that the exoskeleton of these hornets are tough. Only a sting in between the folds of the abdomen is effective.
As for the way the hornets attacked. That’s how they take their prey also. They have very powerful mandibles that snap, crush, and cut the flesh of their victims. The bees had no chance. As for the hornets not using their sting, it’s a defensive weapon. Why waste venom when you can just bite the enemy in half?
We can use anyone we want for the people side, right? Okay. We need disciple, courage, strength, and tenaciousness. People who are not going to turn and run when the bear starts flailing, who can work as a unit, and will fight to the last man.
Give me Leonidas and 99 Spartans.
Sadly, they don’t make 'em like that anymore.
BIG,
you heard what I was saying tho.
The soldier bee’s did go “heads up” with the hornets, but it wouldve been like a man going heads up with a 2000 lb bear who is so angry he could snap a bulls or lions neck with one swipe.
the exoskeloton of the hornet was too dense for a stinger strike unless it was in a “crease”.
I guess they couldve bit the wings or legs, but going heads up aint going to cut it.
The drone bees just got in the way.
When bees flew into the flapping wings of the nornets they where kicked aside like a human getting kicked by a horse.
that was rough.
Too bad the bees cant learn and retain knowledge from generation like man, cause he could’ve learned how to handle a wasp, at least in a 100 on 1 situation. but here their raw instincts just wasnt going to cut it.
IE: soldier going heads up and drones just getting in the way.
[quote]djrobins wrote:
BIG,
you heard what I was saying tho.
The soldier bee’s did go “heads up” with the hornets, but it wouldve been like a man going heads up with a 2000 lb bear who is so angry he could snap a bulls or lions neck with one swipe.
the exoskeloton of the hornet was too dense for a stinger strike unless it was in a “crease”.
I guess they couldve bit the wings or legs, but going heads up aint going to cut it.
The drone bees just got in the way.
When bees flew into the flapping wings of the nornets they where kicked aside like a human getting kicked by a horse.
that was rough.
Too bad the bees cant learn and retain knowledge from generation like man, cause he could’ve learned how to handle a wasp, at least in a 100 on 1 situation. but here their raw instincts just wasnt going to cut it.
IE: soldier going heads up and drones just getting in the way.[/quote]
You have to remember that the bee’s defense has evolved from keeping the hive safe from honey robbing animals. Going head to head with a mammal is effective because their stinger can penetrate and stay in flesh. They usually have to worry about large predators, not like the hornets here. Though a hornet attack is certainly a possibility, the vast amount of defending is done against mammals and birds.
[quote]djrobins wrote:
BIG,
Too bad the bees cant learn and retain knowledge from generation like man, cause he could’ve learned how to handle a wasp, at least in a 100 on 1 situation. but here their raw instincts just wasnt going to cut it.
[/quote]
It was the same situation when the Polish cavalry attempted to go up against a Panzer division of the invading Nazi Wehrmacht. They were exemplary cavalrymen, with the best horses, training and weapons money could buy. All of this counted for nothing against six tons of German armor.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
djrobins wrote:
BIG,
Too bad the bees cant learn and retain knowledge from generation like man, cause he could’ve learned how to handle a wasp, at least in a 100 on 1 situation. but here their raw instincts just wasnt going to cut it.
It was the same situation when the Polish cavalry attempted to go up against a Panzer division of the invading Nazi Wehrmacht. They were exemplary cavalrymen, with the best horses, training and weapons money could buy. All of this counted for nothing against six tons of German armor.
[/quote]
Panzers were ferocious war beasts that still strike fear in the men who are still alive to remember them.
[quote]BIGRAGOO wrote:
Panzers were ferocious war beasts that still strike fear in the men who are still alive to remember them. [/quote]
Indeed, speedy devils they were. My grandfather (WWII vet)actually owns one that he keeps at his farm, as well as a Sherman. Crazy stuff.
Now THAT is what we need to beat this damn bear!
[quote]Bauer97 wrote:
BIGRAGOO wrote:
Panzers were ferocious war beasts that still strike fear in the men who are still alive to remember them.
Indeed, speedy devils they were. My grandfather (WWII vet)actually owns one that he keeps at his farm, as well as a Sherman. Crazy stuff.
Now THAT is what we need to beat this damn bear![/quote]
That’s awesome. I know the men I’ve talked to said their Bradleys made them comfortable…until a panzer was encountered. Then they felt as if they were all riding a bike.
The bear would bat at the people. Every swipe would severely injure/kill one person at least. Without weapons the people would be slaughtered. People have no way to cause enough damage naturally to incapacitate the animal.
I think Varqanir had something with the 99 Spartans and Leonidas. I think their best bet would be to try and find a way to strangle the bear with a shirt or a sturdy stick or something. Maybe sacrifice some guys to distract it from one on it’s back trying to choke it.
They sure as Hell aren’t going to beat it to death, unless maybe they could somehow stomp on its throat.
All of this is slim-to-shredded beef, but it’s better than some of the other absurdities(however much hilarity they provided) that have been brought up.
If the men swarmed theb ear, they could take it. One hundred people, each hanging onto every part of your body and biting at you? Even your paws and face?
Yeah. You’re going down. The bear’s claws and mouth would be too full of the first few people for them to effectively maul anyone once the bear is held.
Really, it’s like one-hundred of those giant ants attacking a huge, strong man. He’s going to have his shit ruined.
[quote]grew7 wrote:
Also, I heard that bears’ (maybe just grizzlies?) front legs are shorter than their back legs. If you run downhill, they’ll try and follow you, but then they’ll go summersaulting down. The bear would either break its neck or be very embarrased, and either would be beneficial to your side of the fight.
Now, it’s not like there are any hills in this area, but a like ninety-nine people playing dead while a lone man lures the charging bear over their bodies might do something.[/quote]
LOL! Man you think of the funniest bear killing techiques
[quote]grew7 wrote:
If the men swarmed theb ear, they could take it. One hundred people, each hanging onto every part of your body and biting at you? Even your paws and face?
Yeah. You’re going down. The bear’s claws and mouth would be too full of the first few people for them to effectively maul anyone once the bear is held.
Really, it’s like one-hundred of those giant ants attacking a huge, strong man. He’s going to have his shit ruined.[/quote]
You can’t be serious. And ants? Come on.
The example was:
- 100 men, unarmed, no rocks or sticks.
- 1 1600-2000LB 14-16’ Tall bear, 6 inch claws sharp as daggers and a paw nearly as wide across as a mans chest, this bear has been in several bear and bull fights and snapped the bulls backs each time, with fight lasting under 10 seconds, the bear enraged and cornered
- A 20ydx20yd fighting environment that is 20 feet tall. I astroturfed the floor for traction for the bear and the people.
There is no time for planning.
There is no time for making weapons from fallen comrades.
Just a free for all, men vs a bear. Not figting is not an option because the bear is enraged by the threat.
The people are toast. Each swipe of the bear will incapacitate at least one person, I don’t know if you saw that this bear can jerk something almost like an alligator, so no body will hang on cause it will be knocked off like a kick by a horse.
IT will look like a scene from aliens.
[quote]Kratos wrote:
grew7 wrote:
If the men swarmed theb ear, they could take it. One hundred people, each hanging onto every part of your body and biting at you? Even your paws and face?
Yeah. You’re going down. The bear’s claws and mouth would be too full of the first few people for them to effectively maul anyone once the bear is held.
Really, it’s like one-hundred of those giant ants attacking a huge, strong man. He’s going to have his shit ruined.
You can’t be serious. And ants? Come on.[/quote]
Fine. You make a bear-claw kind of thing from household objects or whatever. Then try ripping apart mounds of raw meat with it. See how long it takes until your claws are too slimed up for them to cut throw anything.
Then imagine you’ve got your mouth full of it, it’s inbetween your teeth. You could still use your jaws to crush the guy in your mouth, but he’s just going to get stuck in there and you won’t be able to bite off the rest of the meat-bags that are climbing all over you.
And yes. Ants.
Hell. One hundred of those things could probably kill a bear.
One hundred of these things, spread about 3-4 inches from each other. You’d squash one and the ones you didn’t would just crawl onto you. You’re gonna get killed.
[quote]djrobins wrote:
The example was:
- 100 men, unarmed, no rocks or sticks.
- 1 1600-2000LB 14-16’ Tall bear, 6 inch claws sharp as daggers and a paw nearly as wide across as a mans chest, this bear has been in several bear and bull fights and snapped the bulls backs each time, with fight lasting under 10 seconds, the bear enraged and cornered
- A 20ydx20yd fighting environment that is 20 feet tall. I astroturfed the floor for traction for the bear and the people.
There is no time for planning.
There is no time for making weapons from fallen comrades.
Just a free for all, men vs a bear. Not figting is not an option because the bear is enraged by the threat.
The people are toast. Each swipe of the bear will incapacitate at least one person, I don’t know if you saw that this bear can jerk something almost like an alligator, so no body will hang on cause it will be knocked off like a kick by a horse.
IT will look like a scene from aliens.
[/quote]
What happened to the football field in the original thread? And why is there no time to plan? Would a bear in this environment instantley attack a group of 100 people and not relent until it had killed them all? 5 people could distract it whilst the others formed a a strategy.
Sureley 11,000LB of stampeding human muscle could make an impact on the bear? The human stampede is a formidable weapon.
The Rugby scenario is pointless, do you think the bear is going to wait for your planned attack? Yeah, he’ll wait for you to set up, distracted or not by the other ones playing with their balls…hehe… It will be unpredictable how the bear will react as the field is too open.
Example, when I was younger in my teens playing football, we practiced in full gear at times. One time we did a British Bulldog kind of thing, we split the team into 2, offense and defense, each end of the football field, the offensive team (I was on offense) had a football the defensive team would tackle us, each player that was tackled became part of the defensive team.
We would set up and go again, until we see who is left standing, over and over. I ended up as the last man with a football. I started at one end of the field, as usual and the other 40+ guys were at the other, I was able to out manouver them for like 10 minutes, I made use of the field and I was fired up with adrenaline, the coach called it a day I finished untackled, it was a rush.
I think the bear would win against the rugby team, becasue when all hell breaks loose the Rugby team will break apart will fast.
I also know a guy that went for a short hike in Alberta, he found a lookout point, he dscribed it as being just off the side of the mountain, it was made of chain link fence and metal posts, I’ll try to describe it, the posts were 6 feet high, around 6 inches in diameter and cemented in the rock face, about 4 feet apart, the chain link fence covered this area about 12 feet wide and about 8 feet high.
This guy heard some brustling sounds off the path so he went to investigate. Big mistake, he came upon a Grizzly and high tailed it out of there, the bear chased him, he was running as fast as he could and the bear was behind him, he could hear it’s breath, he didn’t look back.
He came upon this lookout point and saw a hole in the fence and literally jumped through it and tumbled down the side which was covered with loose rocks and boulders, after he stopped rolling, he looked up and saw the bear at the fence and could see that the shoulder of the bear reached just short of the posts!
Then the bear did something unexpected, he leaned on the fence and folded it down like it was tin-foil and continued his chase, this guy was horrified and had to slide down the mountain because there was no footing, he slid down and ran on the road below and met up with his father (This guy was 24 and traveling the country with his father in an RV) He ran into the RV and screamed for his father to get the hell out of there.
The father (I work with him) said that when he saw his son, he started up the RV and as his son was telling him a grizzly was chasing him, he didn’t see a bear behind his son as he ran towards him, just saw his son full of blood, ripped shirt etc. He informed a park ranger of the incident and the locals (can’t remember the name of the town) said they haven’t seen a bear near that lookout in 30 years.
Perhaps some Albertans on this board might remember this from last summer in their local papers. Anyway, the bear was freakin’ strong if you ask me!!
[quote]djrobins wrote:
The example was:
- 100 men, unarmed, no rocks or sticks.
- 1 1600-2000LB 14-16’ Tall bear, 6 inch claws sharp as daggers and a paw nearly as wide across as a mans chest, this bear has been in several bear and bull fights and snapped the bulls backs each time, with fight lasting under 10 seconds, the bear enraged and cornered
- A 20ydx20yd fighting environment that is 20 feet tall. I astroturfed the floor for traction for the bear and the people.
There is no time for planning.
There is no time for making weapons from fallen comrades.
Just a free for all, men vs a bear. Not figting is not an option because the bear is enraged by the threat.
The people are toast. Each swipe of the bear will incapacitate at least one person, I don’t know if you saw that this bear can jerk something almost like an alligator, so no body will hang on cause it will be knocked off like a kick by a horse.
IT will look like a scene from aliens.
[/quote]
That may be what you want to see so you can worship the bear but the majority of the people here are responding to the original post by grew7 which is a different situation entirely. What you propose is not “the example” but an alternate one. It’s fine to imagine this situation as well but be clear you are using an alternate situation.