On TRT and Thinking about Adding HGH..........

Have been of on TRT for a year now…
100mg/wk Testosterone Cyp injected EOD Sub Q
1.25mg/wk arimidex taken @ .25mg Mon - Fri
hCG 250iu EOD

I’m 44 5’11" 180 lbs and in very good shape (very little body fat)

Labs are all good, feeling pretty good and considering adding HGH. I was hoping for some feedback from those who have added HGH.

Is it worth the additional cost?
What added benefit can I expect from the addition of HGH?

  • Just saw Stallone recently (walking poster boy for HGH) and thought WOW this dude is 64 and looking awesome! Well aside from the bad cosmetic surgery ;o)

Also, what other worthwhile hormones etc should I be adding to the mix to look/feel my best???
DHEA?
Melatonin?
other hormones?
Doses???

Thanks in advance!

It is primarily about the money. Do you have IGF-1 lab results?

IGF-1 no
I guess the question is then…since it’s about he money, is it worth the extra cost given the expected benefits?

First optimize your health with things that are affordable that you can maintain over the long haul. Lots of work to find out what to do and be motivated.

KSman, ya lost me dude! My health is good…much better since I got my TRT dialed in.
My questions is will the HGH make that big a difference? AND is it worth the cost?
How about the other hormones? Any suggestions?
DHEA?
Melatonin?
Thx

At your age, your DHEA levels will be down, yes, take it.

Melatonin is great if you have sleep issues.

You would be nuts to do HGH without IGF-1 numbers, and your doc would be a criminal.

My Doc will only prescribe after IGF-1 levels but I’m sure regardless of the results, I will get the script.
Really just wanted to know if it was worth the cost is all…

DHEA-S test I had done a wile back came in at 6.0 umol/L How much should I supplement? 50mg/day?

KSman your thoughts on this reply (below) to my question please? Confusing, because I thought everyone that was using HGH while on TRT was also continuing with Testosterone at same dosages as prior to addition of the HGH. 100mg/wk is a pretty small dose already no? How much lower would I be going?
*The combo of HGH and test from what I can gather provides a synergistic affect

OVERVIEW:

In your case you would boost growth hormone to let you reduce your T and quit the arimidex, or reduce it to almost zero, as well as improve your sleep (if your sleep is not maximum refreshing), but you will need to naturally produce more cortisol, or supplement appropriately (eg: pregnenolone) to create more cortisol if you can’t produce more cortisol naturally.

DETAILS:

T and GH trigger many of the same repairs (not 100% overlap).

Our genetic optimum for T is set at somewhere which assumes plenty of GH. When we only boost T to trigger the repairs which are ordinarily triggered by both T and GH, then we have to boost our T far above our genetic-setpoint-for-optimum-T.

This causes our body’s defenses to kick in, and our body defends itself from T-which-is-far-above-our-genetic-setpoint-for-optimum-T by one or more of 5 different mechanisms, ie:

…1) Lower SHBG to allow T to remain as “free T” which can be quickly metabolized by the liver into urinary metabolites

…2) Raise SHBG to bind excess T to SHBG, thus taking T-bound-to-SHBG permanently out-of-action until the liver metabolizes T-bound-to-SHBG by stripping the SHBG and converting the free T into urinary metabolites

…3) Dump excess T into E2 and DHT

…4) Suppress LH to starve the testicles of raw materials (pregnenolone), as well as inhibit the production of Leydig cells which produce testosterone in the testicles.

…5) Suppress ACTH to starve the testicles of raw materials (pregnenolone), but this also reduces cortisol production.

In your case your body has definitely invoked “3)” and “4)”.

We can’t escape “4)” but by boosting GH considerably we can escape “3)” because boosting GH allows us to reduce our T accordingly, and the reduction in T puts our T at much closer to our genetic-setpoint-for-optimum-T, which means we slow down the rate at which T converts into E2 and DHT, to much closer to their optimum levels. Thus we can reduce our arimidex to zero or almost zero.

Usually boosting GH this way this means our ability to manage our T-to-E2 ratio is almost 100% reliable. Ie: we get erections on demand, and maintain them for longer. On the other hand, our libido is not as strong because not only do we reduce the amount of T dumping into E2, but we reduce the amount of T dumping into DHT. And DHT is the main hormone responsible for libido.

Usually boosting GH this way, at night time, improves our neurotransmitter balance greatly too, to the point where we get a fantastic night’s sleep and wake up very refreshed indeed.

Usually boosting GH this way, at night time, requires us to produce (or supplement appropriately) more cortisol at night time, because GH at night requires plenty of cortisol at night time, because GH and cortisol work synergistically to produce the benefits which are incorrectly attributed to GH alone. Without a cortisol boost (natural or supplement) then boosting GH will achieve no benefits.

.


Warning:

A) Slow excreters have pooly functioning livers. They must monitor hormone levels very carefully, to ensure their dosages are low enough to prevent accumulation of hormones to the point where levels become excessive, or even toxic, after several days or weeks of supplementation.

B) Fast excreters have excessive liver enzyme activity. These people require relatively high and frequent doses of hormones, and the cost of hormone supplementation, for these people, is relatively high.

“”" This causes our body’s defenses to kick in, and our body defends itself from"“”

The body is not willful or aware, who ever wrote this is getting dramatic. Things happen and we know that.

I don’t agree with what he is telling you [sales pitch], even though there are some facts involved. You can try HGH, if you can afford it, and see if it makes life better for you. Then the debate by others is of no concern to you.

We need more cortisol at night? That keeps people awake. Take Cortef and have a good sleep?

As for DHEA and DHEA-S, you did not supply lab ranges.

You asked “AND is it worth the cost?” -What would your costs be?

DHEA-S test I had done a wile back came in at 6.0 umol/L Range was (5.2-14.2 umol/L)
I believe the conversion is 6.0 x 38 = 228
How much should I supplement? 50mg/day?

My cost for HGH approx 300/mth

You said:
We need more cortisol at night? That keeps people awake. Take Cortef and have a good sleep?

So I should take cortef? are you being sarcastic???

50mg DHEA is suitable for most males.

If anyone understands cortisol they would see the sarcasm!

20 years of HGH is $72,000. Now think of that money going into a savings account or tax sheltered investment. As an engineer, I can’t get the cost/benefit out of mind.

72k over 20 years sure puts it in perspective…maybe when I retire and can buy it cheaper in some place like Thailand or Mexico.

[quote]KSman wrote:
50mg DHEA is suitable for most males.

If anyone understands cortisol they would see the sarcasm!

20 years of HGH is $72,000. Now think of that money going into a savings account or tax sheltered investment. As an engineer, I can’t get the cost/benefit out of mind.

[/quote]

This summarizes why you’re my favourite poster on T-Nation.

I am on both gh and test cyp (3 weeks) right now … only pay $400/ year for the growth from a doctor and the effects it has for me in the 4 months have been on it is incredible… some stretch marks i had on my stomach … gone… increased energy thinning my body out (sorta changing it … like what happened to mark McGuire and Barry bonds) hair has gotten thicker (but with the test its sort of a wash now) … now with the synergistic effects of test and gh i cant wait to see what will happen in the next coming months

Sully - what exactly does your doctor have you on? I am curious because as far as I know there are no cheap 100% substitutes to HGH shots.

neutropin now and switching over to omnitropin

well its not cheap … i just pay a co pay … its nutropin and omnitropin ive taken … gotta love insurance

lol the guys at Jintropin claim that thyroid will downregulate after hgh use and I believe them.

[quote]cjackson25 wrote:
lol the guys at Jintropin claim that thyroid will downregulate after hgh use and I believe them. [/quote]

What does that mean? TSH goes down because the thyroid response to TSH is improved [good]? Or T4 and T3 go down [bad]? Please make such comments clear so they are useful.