25M, 230lbs, 5’7, chubster. I recently started a weight-loss journey to get myself back in shape. Been training consistently for about 2 or 3 months now, 6 days a week. Mostly working on strength training, trying to convert as much fat into muscle as possible. I’ve seen great visual progress, but haven’t weighed myself since the beginning because the internet tells me it’s unhealthy.
I am curious as to what the best approach to fat-loss is, and if there are any programs you all would recommend for someone who doesn’t want to be skinny, but wants to lose the fat, maintaining all muscle.
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I can’t say enough about the RP Diet and training apps.
It’s not “unhealthy” but it can be deceiving especially if your training in the gym but it is a good tool to see if things are going the right way and how different food choices can affect you. The mirror doesn’t lie.
Excluding your current period lifting. Had you lifting for any significant amount of time in the past?
Just so you know, this doesn’t really happen. You can lose fat, and build muscle, but you can’t convert fat to muscle. I’m not just picking on semantics, I think it matters to understand what your real goal is.
My goal would be focused on fat loss.
And it sounds like you agree!
So, with all that out of the way, picking a program is actually going to be the least consequential part. There’s a gajillion or so, for free, on this site. I find hard training 6 days a week to be a little much, pretty much ever now, but certainly in a fat loss phase. It’s really whatever you want to do, though. I will say this: you can’t go wrong running a program from a reputable coach, like the kind on this site, as written. Many, many posters have been disappointed in their results when trying to make up their own thing. I still wouldn’t say “went wrong,” because you win or you learn, but my hard advice would be to pick something that looks fun to you and just get after it.
Outstanding!
I don’t want to get into a discussion for which I’m unqualified, but I’m pretty sure the Internet thinks everything is scary and dangerous and nobody should ever do it. Certainly, there are those with an eating disorder that should never look at the scale; that’s a relatively slim (pun bravely intended) minority at this point. This sentiment, to me, feels to come from the “healthy at any weight” self-justification line of thinking.
Now, I’m not saying to pick a number and crash to get there (or eat up to it, for that matter). I’m not saying the scale is the end all, be all. And, certainly, visual results trump everything; we want to hit a level of leanness and muscularity with which we’re happy, and let that weight fall where it may.
However, the scale is a fantastic tool. For one, despite what we tell ourselves, it’s a rare and short-term occurrence that we are completely offsetting our fat loss with muscular gain… so in a fat loss phase, we should see the scale moving downward; if we aren’t, that’s a clue to adjust our calories. Secondly, there is a period where you’re probably going to look worse, or at least not better, whilst dieting down - you get a little softer, your arms and chest will lose fat and glycogen first, and you won’t be lean enough to be happy with that progress. The mirror will tell you to eat a cheeseburger; the scale will let you know you’re on the right track. Finally, it’s freaking simple: if the scale is going down, and your lifts are maintaining or going up, it’s more than likely you’re meeting your goal of losing fat and maintaining (or even gaining) muscle. Let’s not add more thinking to this than we must.
After that tirade, I mentioned above that the lifting program doesn’t really matter, so what does? Your diet. What are you eating? That’s going to be the variable that drives your fat loss. We can all chime in with a lot of advice, but it will be more helpful if you tell us what is your current daily menu, compliance, likes and dislikes. Not saying you will, but just a quick heads-up, if you reply “my diet is dialed in, all healthy stuff,” with no additional detail, we’re simply unable to give any assistance.
At the end of all of this, there are some “rules” based on
- Caloric deficit with sufficient protein
- Lift weights ~3x weekly
- Some cardiovascular work (movement)
There’s ranges within the above, but that’s really the breakdown.
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I strongly recommend that you get access to a good body composition analyzer and get incremental scans. This will tell you how much fat you’re losing over time. When I started a major (for me) body recomp a couple of years ago, my total weight didn’t change but tracking with an inbody (commercial ones, I don’t rate the at home ones) I could see that I lost 30lb in fat and gained the same in muscle over a very short time period, which made it a more a rewarding and insightful journey.
I also recommend you looking into your hormonal balance if you haven’t already, get some bloodwork done and if your total testosterone is anywhere 600 or lower you would benefit from TRT, which will boost metabolism, muscle development, strength and recovery.
I haven’t used the RP app but Dr Mike certainly knows his stuff so if you’re going to educate yourself on what will be productive or reductive towards your goals, look up Renaissance Periodization on YouTube and watch his stuff
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Yes, it was more-so a figure of speech to say I want to change my overall body composition.
I’m currently active duty and trying to stay fit as much as possible. I find it much easier to consistently go to the gym when I am going almost every day rather than taking a bunch of day off a week – doing the latter causes me to take extra days off or feel less motivated… it’s just a personal preference I suppose.
I like the way you worded this, it makes a lot of sense and just may get me to buy a new scale. Everytime I owned a scale I ended up checking my weight every single morning and when I saw an increase or any sort of stagnation, I felt demotivated and gave up. I understand a little bit now, that my weight will naturally fluctuate but it’s hard to pull myself out of the rut that I feel when I don’t see progression.
My daily menu for the last few weeks has been all over the place. My job pushed me to an overnight schedule for the last two weeks so I’ve been eating at strange times. One day I had a homemade beef bulgolgi for my breakfast, turkey and cheese salad w/ oil and vinegar for lunch with a small 1 serving kitkat bar and a seltzer water, right after the gym I had a double scoop GNC Double Chocolate Protein shake with 2tbsp of powdered PB, and for dinner I had two enchiladas which were leftovers from the night before… That meal plan is kind of the gist of how all my days have been going. The dinners and breakfast vary but they’re typically low-carb meals with a bunch of protein and veggies in them. My wife and I really don’t know much about nutrition so deciding on healthy meals is a challenge.
I appreciate the time you took to write this response and I’ll take everything you said into true consideration.
Specifically lifting, no. I spent some time in the gym 4 years back before joining the Air Force, then spent my entire first year in the AF in the gym, but lost the fire and motivation once I went overseas.
Thanks a lot! I’ll look into RP Diet when I get home today!
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I’m not too sure if I’m allowed to do anything like that in the military… I probably should have mentioned that in the post as well.
I will definitely do that. Thanks for the recommendation!
I appreciate your thoughtful response! I’ll get that body comp scan in the next few weeks.
Totally fair! And that plays into this hugely. In that case, have you considered something like Thibaudeau’s “best damn” workout? It’s purpose-built for exactly the frequency you prefer, and the feedback from trainees is fantastic:
https://t-nation.com/t/the-best-workout-plan-for-natural-lifters/282025
Rather than pontificate, I’m just going to tag @QuadQueen; she’s a bonafide dietician that can help you on the right path.
Thank you for your service! Let’s make sure we’re still doing enough running for the PT test, but I think it’s relatively short for you guys.
I totally understand all this, and it’s why people will advise staying away from the scale altogether, but having a cheap, easy, consistent and (relatively) reliable metric just makes too much sense to me. If it is a derailer for you, certainly we need to move away from it, but if you can get patient and comfortable enough just dealing with a weekly average weight, then I think it’s a helpful tool. Especially as you learn about nutrition, you’ll start seeing what foods have a measurable impact on your body.
FWIW - I used to weigh myself everyday, and check my BF with a hand held BIA device. I would then enter that information into a spreadsheet that calculated my lean body mass and fat in pounds. At the end of each week, I set it up to give me an average so I could see the weekly trend rather than just flipping out daily.
I thought I was being smart.
Now I weigh and measure on Mondays.
We have several active duty military who are clients of ours, I don’t think it’s an issue, as long as you are staying within natural range.
Shit, the number of police and firemen who are jacked to the gills around my area is laughable I expect most are using UGL or less reputable clinics, but still pretty funny.
Nothing wrong with weighing every day. It can give you a great sense of how eating/drinking different things affect you as you learn about your body. I’ve been weighing myself daily for more than 10 years. Just a habit now. I don’t get excited with daily changes but it gives me a picture of what’s going on and how i’m trending while dieting/building.
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@v_gains This is a waste of money. The scale, mirror and fit of clothing should be enough to tell if you are losing fat, even if there are no dramatic weight changes. Getting stronger will also be an indicator that you are building muscle.
This is ridiculous. He is 25, overweight, just got back into lifting, and you suggest lifelong hormone therapy if it’s lower than 600? Even if he tested low, there could be many contributing factors, and he has given no signs of feeling bad.
Of course you have a clinic.
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The best approach to fat loss? One question, 100 different answers.
I have had two MDs tell me, when I was heavier, and laying on the couch 7 days a week, work excepted, that the Atkins Diet was what I needed to be doing. I about fell over. Twenty-five years ago I lost 60 lbs. on the Atkins Diet and my MD then almost went into vapor lock. He was pissed. Times have changed. Today, I guess, we call Atkins, Keto. There are probably variations, but there are similarities.
There is the No S Diet (Reinhard Engels), which is a lower sugar diet, but it has also worked for me.
A week or two ago a poster put up a weight loss calculator based on your maintenance calories minus 500 calories for weight loss. For instance I am about 210 lbs. My maintenance is around 2400 calories a day. Minus 500 is 1900 calories a day. Watch your protein. Eggs are cheap, eat them.
Then there is the Ellington Darden approach where you eat between 1600 and 1200 calories a day and drink one gallon of cold ice water a day. He has a variety of books with that as a base weight loss diet. See Killing Fat. (They come with a built in workout…)
Your workout is your baby. There is a thread, started yesterday, concerning the one book on weightlifting/bodybuilding we would choose if we could only choose one. Super Squats was listed (Randall Strossen), The Complete Keys to Progress (McCallum), books by Dan John were mentioned, a program called 531 (I do not know the author). I picked the Encyclopedia of Bodybuilding (Schwarzenegger), but a HIT approach found in The New High Intensity Training might be attractive. (My second would be The Nautilus Book by Ellington Darden)
If you want to start a cardio approach, you might want to stay away from pounding the pavement and try an assault bike (Airdyne), skipping rope is incredibly efficient (just start with 100 skips…). Interval aerobic training could be of interest, there are a lot of ways to do that, including burpees. (When did the %&$# burpee make a comeback. The horror of jr. high.)
I really know nothing of hormone replacement so I cannot comment.
I type a lot, sorry. But, as Diamond Dallas Page says: Make it your own. And you have to, we can type all we want, but you have to make the decisions. And push the resistance.
Good Luck!
Edit: Just read what QuadQueen typed.
My best advice is to just not overthink it. Keep it simple to get things started. The things you want to focus on are:
- Lean proteins - your meals should center around these. Avoid frying, breading, fat or cream rich gravies and sauces.
- Non-starchy vegetables - 1/3-1/2 of your plate should be colorful - get your veggies. Using bags of frozen veggies is fine - heat them in the microwave and enjoy. Season with salt, pepper, herbs and a small amount of olive oil.
- Starchy carbs - limit these and/or keep them focused around your workouts. Your best options will be potatoes, sweet potatoes, legumes, and oats. Again, avoid sauces, gravies and/or adding high amounts of fat to them - just a little olive oil.
- Healthy fats - add these in small/moderate amounts. Be mindful of how much oil gets added in cooking, and how much fat your meats are contributing naturally. Fat is a condiment if fat loss is your goal. The best fats to choose are: olive or avocado oil, avocado, olives, MODERATE amounts of nuts/nut butters, fatty fish (both fat and protein here).
Just keep it to the basics for the first week or two. Once you establish a baseline and pattern you can start playing with it.
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Blockquote @OTay @v_gains This is a waste of money. The scale, mirror and fit of clothing should be enough to tell if you are losing fat, even if there are no dramatic weight changes. Getting stronger will also be an indicator that you are building muscle.
I am a member at 4 different gyms, every one of them has some variant of a body composition analyser that they offer to members for free. We also have one in our clinic that our members use free of charge. I’ve never paid to use one. They’re not hard to find if you look for them, and help you quantify the changes you’re making, which can be impactful. Many of them also calculate basal metabolic rate which can be used to then calculate carolic need to stay in a mild defecit and lose weight, lots of benefits.
Blockquote @OTay This is ridiculous. He is 25, overweight, just got back into lifting, and you suggest lifelong hormone therapy if it’s lower than 600? Even if he tested low, there could be many contributing factors, and he has given no signs of feeling bad.
I missed that he was 25, yeah that is too low. Possibly Enclomiphene would be a good option since it wouldn’t negatively affect fertility but too young for TRT supplementation unless his levels are really low (sub-300) and supporting symtpoms are present.
Most gyms offer some form of body composition analysis on an occasional basis. I think mine offers an introductory analysis as part of a come on to sell coaching.
I have been insanely obsessed with BF for years. I had calipers, had my coach, a Doctor of Physical Therapy and a SSC, use calipers, had some twenty year old named Trevor use calipers on me in 1999, bought some over the top shit a few years ago, but I keep coming back to my hand held Omron monitor - it gives me a trend.
The mirror tells me the rest.