I have read and used a few different powerlifting training templates readily available on the internet (I particularly liked the West Side Barbell inspired ones). I’d love to do a training cycle focusing on improving my olympic lifts.
Do you guys know of any good training templates or any advice in general? Thanks in advance.
-Adam
Joe Mills 20/20 workout by Gary Valentine
Snatch and clean and jerk are done all in the same workout. All singles. This is great for sharpening technique, building confidence and learning to Olympic Lift!
Start with about 70% of your best snatch. Do 5 singles, about a minute apart, all competition squat or split style. This should be light and is basically still warming up, but do them fast and explosively. Mills said if it’s light you should just get under it faster and feel it pull you up, setting the motor patterns for heavier lifts to come. After these 5 singles, add 5 kg and do 5 more singles, again, each one just like in a competition. The way you do these is the way you’ll do the max.
Then add 2.5 kg and do 5 more singles. Take a minute or two between, whatever you need to pretty much recover and lift explosively.
You’ve now done 15 snatches. The 16th should be 2.5 kg more, the 17th 2.5 kg more, etc…reaching 20 which should be close to max. If you can do 21 or 22 and never miss, you should move the whole progression up 2.5 kg.
After all the snatches, take 5-10 minutes rest, then begin clean and jerk the same way. 5 singles with about 70-75%, add 5 kg for 5 more singles, add 2.5 kg for 5 more singles. Reps 16-20 should add 2.5 kg each. If you make all 20/20, this all should take a good hour and a half, and believe me, you won’t want to do any “assistance exercises.” As a matter of fact, if you think you are in shape for assistance exercises, try it!
It’s best to start light and get in all lifts. You can always move it up. You could do just 15/15 the first few times or whenever you want a lot of good practice. Just stay with the 15th rep weights for lots of practice. The idea is that it is an easily organized way of keeping track of lifting progress, great for building confidence on the platform. He said that once you had a few more years of this type of workout under your belt, you could open in a meet with 10-20 pounds more than your 20th lift! I found this to be true in my last meet in March (1999), ending 20’s usually with 110/152 kg, opened with 115/155, made 123/162!
Perfect practice makes perfect he’d say, and when you’re used to doing heavy attempts tired, it’s a relief when you are rested up for a meet!
The Joe Mills program (above) is great…very challenging.
For more variety, follow Mike Burgener’s Work Out of the Day (WOD).
http://www.mikesgym.org/wod.php
…Of course, the well initiated are going to advise you to seek out a coach, which is the best advice of all.
Hey Guys–
I just started to include O-Lifts into my routine. I broke the snatch down into a snatch-grip deadlift and an overhead squat; I broke the C&J down into a clean-grip front squat and overhead press/jerk variations. When I feel confident with those lifts, I’ll start piecing them together into a full snatch and C&J.
On a semi-related note: Do you think a Olympic lifting routine can be effectively incorporated into a powerlifting program? Wouldn’t the speed/power gains made in the O-lifts transfer to the squat, bench press and deadlift found in powerlifting? …or are we talking about completely different movement patterns that must be trained separately to be trained effectively?
[quote]D Rock wrote:
Hey Guys–
I just started to include O-Lifts into my routine. I broke the snatch down into a snatch-grip deadlift and an overhead squat; I broke the C&J down into a clean-grip front squat and overhead press/jerk variations. When I feel confident with those lifts, I’ll start piecing them together into a full snatch and C&J.
On a semi-related note: Do you think a Olympic lifting routine can be effectively incorporated into a powerlifting program? Wouldn’t the speed/power gains made in the O-lifts transfer to the squat, bench press and deadlift found in powerlifting? …or are we talking about completely different movement patterns that must be trained separately to be trained effectively?[/quote]
Train oly lifts in the morning, and traditional powerlifting at night. Little no to assesory work for the oly lifts.
OR:
instead of westside DE days do the oly lifts
OR:
jerk on DE upper body days snatch before squats, cleans after or before deadlifts
The jerk is really a lower body dominant lift - arms are only used to drive the body under the bar (after leg drive has driven it to the top of your head) and to fix it overhead.
If you want to train them on the same day you can just do:
A) Oly lift variation
B) Squat/dead/bench
C) Assistance
[quote]ninearms wrote:
The jerk is really a lower body dominant lift - arms are only used to drive the body under the bar (after leg drive has driven it to the top of your head) and to fix it overhead.
If you want to train them on the same day you can just do:
A) Oly lift variation
B) Squat/dead/bench
C) Assistance[/quote]
Just getting and holding that much weight overhead hits my upper back/shoulders pretty well. I do realize that most of the force is generated by the legs, but it’s not nearly as taxing on the legs as the upper back in my experience. YMMV.
[quote]D Rock wrote:
Hey Guys–
I just started to include O-Lifts into my routine. I broke the snatch down into a snatch-grip deadlift and an overhead squat; I broke the C&J down into a clean-grip front squat and overhead press/jerk variations. When I feel confident with those lifts, I’ll start piecing them together into a full snatch and C&J.
On a semi-related note: Do you think a Olympic lifting routine can be effectively incorporated into a powerlifting program? Wouldn’t the speed/power gains made in the O-lifts transfer to the squat, bench press and deadlift found in powerlifting? …or are we talking about completely different movement patterns that must be trained separately to be trained effectively?[/quote]
You can do both and be good at both, but you’ll probably never be as good at either as you would be if you were just training one.
To answer your question, no, there’s not a great deal of carryover between the Olympic lifts and the powerlifts. The loading and speed of execution are just too different, not to mention that the technique is very different as well. The squat will help your Olymplic lifts, but not a “powerlifting style” squat.
I like zephead’s idea of incorporating oly lifts into Westside DE days.
If I did that, do you envision the same training volume I would use for a standard Westside DE day? Or do you think less volume is appropriate, considering the complexity of the oly lifts?
[quote]ninearms wrote:
If you want to train them on the same day you can just do:
A) Oly lift variation
B) Squat/dead/bench
C) Assistance[/quote]
For the sake of giving some more options, you can check out:
…Its set up like this for the most part.
I got excellent results from the Performance Menu programming, especially given that I had little consistent coaching at the time.
[quote]D Rock wrote:
I like zephead’s idea of incorporating oly lifts into Westside DE days.
If I did that, do you envision the same training volume I would use for a standard Westside DE day? Or do you think less volume is appropriate, considering the complexity of the oly lifts?[/quote]
I didn’t like doing it that way, so someone else should chime in.
I think he should decide whether he wants to powerlift or Olympic lift and not try to ride two horses with one ass.
Olympic Lifters still do bench press.
Their cleans suffice deadlifting and front squats are commonly used by many other sports, including bodybuilding.
You have to be prepared to not have the ultimate brute strength though, it is the nature of their training that there is less volume, more overall power, less overall pure strength.
If you do one you will find it HARDER to do the other, but as quoted in a recent article, there are eastern Europeans which compete in both, and also in bodybuilding competitions too. Yes it is possible to do all three, just make sure you are ready to multiply your determination, effort and planning.
My primary focus right now is powerlifting and I’m looking to compete in a raw meet 6 to 8 months out from now. I’m interested in whether or not anything could be gained by incorporating olympic-style lifts into my powerlifting routine.
It seems that there are more effective methods of supplementing the powerlifts than using a Snatch or C&J variation.
You are absolutely right: as a sport, it is very difficult to train for one while training for the other. That said, I wonder what kind of results could be achieved if a dedicated athlete did complete in both powerlifting and weightlifting events.
forevernade: you mentioned a “recent article.” Which article are you referencing?
[quote]D Rock wrote:
You are absolutely right: as a sport, it is very difficult to train for one while training for the other. That said, I wonder what kind of results could be achieved if a dedicated athlete did complete in both powerlifting and weightlifting events.
[/quote]
I’m sure that many olympic weightlifters could switch to powerlifting and manage very well. The other way round it’s more difficult (and please no one start the debate on the powerlifting vs. olympic weightlifting which is harder or which ones are stronger or any of that bullshit…they are different thats all).
One legendary man from Finland comes to mind when talking about simultaneously training for both events. His name is Taito Haara and he competed in both events with great success. His best results include in weightclass +110kg
squat 405kg
bench 225kg
deadlift 362.5 kg
total 985kg
He held European records with these lifts and he won the world record in 1977 among other medals.
In weightlifting his results were in weightclass under 110kg
press 192.5kg
snatch 170kg
clean and jerk 213kg
He held Nordic records with these results and he also took part in 2 olympic events and 4 wm’s but didn’t achieve medals (positions in the best 10 anyway). He also competed in +110kg class.
About his training he said in an interview that he trained 6 days a week (2-4 hours per day) for both events most of the time. Only during the last 3-4 weeks before competitions he would train only that event in which he competed.
Multitalented people in strength sports are becoming definitely more and more of an exception these days. It’s harder now than it’s ever been because both sports have developed so far.
If you don’t aim to be the worlds best (or if you don’t plan to compete or if you just do it for your own pleasure) then it is possible to train both events and to get good results. In my opinion the best option training wise is to periodise your training such that you switch the emphasis between the events every now and then. Do maintenance loads for weightlifting while emphasising powerlifting and vice versa.
[quote]RenaissanceMan wrote:
In my opinion the best option training wise is to periodise your training such that you switch the emphasis between the events every now and then.[/quote]
What a great idea! And so easy to implement, I didn’t think of it. Thanks RM.
Remember to do maintenance work for weightlifting (each lift at least once per week) while emphasising powerlifts and vice versa.
Even though the main idea is easy (best ideas are always the simplest/most elegant) I think that the part where you actually put theory in practise, takes a lot of time to learn. You really have to know yourself (how long cycles to use/which exercise to choose/what kind of intensities/volume to assign for the developing/maintenance qualities etc…)
But once you put the effort in you will get a hell-of-a-good program that will work for you. And I still think it’s better than trying to mix everything on a single week…it’s practically impossible to train olympic lifts at least 2-3 times per week while also doing all powerlifts 2-3 times per week and include enough assistance work as well.
And by the way…this system is obviously not my invention…but rather my interpretation/implementation of the block periodization (or conjugate sequence system…not to be mixed with westside’s conjugate periodization).
[quote]RenaissanceMan wrote:
But once you put the effort in you will get a hell-of-a-good program that will work for you. And I still think it’s better than trying to mix everything on a single week…it’s practically impossible to train olympic lifts at least 2-3 times per week while also doing all powerlifts 2-3 times per week and include enough assistance work as well. [/quote]
In my current routine I have 3-4 workouts a week where I warm up to 3 working sets of 80-85% of my max on either CnJ, snatch, or a supplement of one or the other. After that I do 5-10 working sets of a strength exercise, balance, or supplemental.
That could include back squats, front squats, bicep/hamstring curl(yes I have a day devoted to just curls), OH squats, paused Bench Press, deadlift/cleans and a high reps leg press day.
Not only do I do this, but I also train 1-3 times a week at my coach’s gym. Used to I would just pyramid up on a given lift, do a few working sets at near maximal effort singles, and then leave.
Lately it’s been pyramiding up on a combo lift, then doing 5 sets of one supplemental, 4-5 sets of another supplemental, and then some sort of heavy squatting movement.
The reason I can’t go to coach’s but 1-3 times a week is because he only opens his gym 12-4pm every day for coaching, so I really can only go when work and college permit me to.
The result of my training is that I can drill my weight lifting form every day with a comfortable weight so that I can have room for progression even if I plateau. Also doing the lighter weight at the gym gives me the opportunity to note problems with form that need to be addressed. I’m always confident when I go to workout with coach that my form is the best I can make it at the time. But, with the time between seeing him I always have some major tweeking to do to my lifts.
I feel that I’m doing okay, I’m hitting a PR atleast once a week on my weight lifting and I’m getting more consistent in my strength training, though the gains are much slower.
I really had to start doing it this way, because training just oly lifting dropped my squat from 350 to 280 in a few short months. Coach had put me on lighter squats that went much lower than traditional PL style and before I knew it I was dropping poundage by not training for strength.
[quote]Annwyn wrote:
In my current routine I have 3-4 workouts a week where I warm up to 3 working sets of 80-85% of my max on either CnJ, snatch, or a supplement of one or the other. [/quote]
To me that is more like maintenance work. When emphasising olympic lifts I would:
On all lifts I would typically do like 5-8 sets of 1-3 reps at over 80% or 3-5 sets of 3-5 reps at 70%-85%.
On top of that I would do assistance work like:
If I wanted to emphasise powerlifts I would:
And add plenty of assistance work for:
To me doing all those in one week would be overkill. I usually do something like 2-3 main exercises + 2-3 assistance exercises per day and train 6 days per week. So that is enough for me.