Been lifting 18 months right now im at 495 1RM on squat 315 1RM Bench 315 1RM Deadlift. My question is about deadlifts they kill my lower back even when my form is good Im trying to establish a solid method in my training and enjoy lifting heavy dont really care about bodybuilding for looks just wanna stay strong and would love to compete with the old dudes in my area some day. If I use a sumo form for deadlifts its alot easier is this good or bad ? Will it hurt me as far as maximum gains ?
Give sumo a shot. It allows yourself to have a more upright position, and a lot of people love that stance as it also decreases the distance the barbell has to travel for a complete lockout.
If I were you, I’d really hit some high rep lower back stuff for awhile, and gradually increasing with weight. If you have a reverse hyper machine, they are amazing for your lower back. I also like the band good mornings as the high reps really tax my lower back.
Play around with some things. Just play it safe until you know that your problem is being addressed effectively, and safely.
I agree with Landon, build up the lower back with other exercises. I think you are having a hard time deadlifting because of your height. You are not all that tall and probably have short arms.
Deadlifting favors long arm guys. The Sumo stance is the way to go.
Now I want you to pay attention to your elders! (I have two years on you pal, and I’m still going strong!).
I’m by no means an expert but how do you know your form is correct. If you can handle a 500lb squat your back and hamstrings should have it for at least 425 DL. If i would guess i’m going to say that your form is bad. Have someone take a look at that before you go nuts on other things. It might only be one little thing but that little thing is holding you back alot. I Know i thought i was weak till my friend helped me with simple foot positioning and i went up 50lbs. Tell us where you are missing the lift and we can help you from there.
Thanks for the feedback guys seems everyone I talk to is saying the same thing ease up on the weight back up a bit, strengthen the lower back but dam patience is not my strong point nevertheless I have hit the wall on the big weight I am having to retreat and regroup come at it from a differant perspective just grabbin heavier and heavier weight has stopped working caz I cant lift it anymore !!!
But I AM AN ANIMAL !!! I will whoop 600lbs before i hit the Nursing Home !!!
Well today at the gym I broke down and actually tried ya’lls advice I focused on lower back, And lo and behold I think I found my problem after doing just a (3 x 10) back extensions the vertical muscles next to my spine guess there the spinal erectors or something actually started cramping after just 30 repetitions with only my body weight “Duh” this is probly the weak point dont ya think ! I just bet this is my deadlift problem that and yes I am a short no armed caveman type !!! But damn Im pretty dont ya think !!!
Although deadlifts do definitely favor those of us with longer arms, having a 495 squat with only a 315 deadlift is something that I almost can’t even comprehend. I’m definitely on the same page as everyone else, and would recommend switching to sumo deadlifts, at least for awhile.
However, while this may take away most of your pain almost instantly, like you said, you obviously have a weak lower back. Do good mornings, reverse hypers(if this option is available to you), and although I’m not a big fan of back extensions, I would suppose if that’s your only option you should continue to do those as well. Also, I would imagine that you have a pretty solid core if you’re squatting close to 500 pounds, but I would look into hitting that harder too. Keep it up and before long you’ll be pulling weights that will make your old max look like a warm-up.
Ive heard lot of folks say that me not being able to dead more than 315 but squatting for a 1rm of 495 is outta whack , How come the muscles for dead lift seem to be alot differant than a squat, On a deadlift there is grip strength, arm strength, back lots of areas i dont seem to hit whem im squatting. Ive also reecently started using a box and coming to a fully relaxed position on the box with the weight before powering up and dang thats some hard stuff my max went down to 405.
The box squat will help your deadlift tremendously, it seems to me you need to start pulling speed deadlifts off a 4inch box to bring up your grip and arm strength not to mention the punishment your post chain will take, also get yourself some mini bands from dave tate and double them up under the box and begin to pull against them. this will bring up your deadlift 100 pounds i promise it, if you are also incorperating rack pulls on max effort day…good luck big martin
i must admit corkster, i am stumped by this one. i have never met anyone with that good of a squat who could not deadlift any more than that. the short stocky therory does not really work as i have the same dimensions ans you and my deadlift has always been STRONGER than my squat!
a coulple of questions, not meaning to insult you, but bear with me. that 495 squat, is it even near full depth? if it is, i cant believe your back and hips are not strong enough to support mor weight than 315 in the deadlift. if you squat 1/2 or 3/4, i can understand it. as that would be more of a quad exercise and your low back, hips and abds are not getting much work.
the squat and deadlift work essentially the same muscles. when i did personal training, i often worked with highschool and college athletes that had been squating for some time, but never deadlifted. they all could deadlift nearly 90% of their squat, some more!
is grip an issue? if so use straps.
send in a pic of your squat at various positions and your deadlift, perhaps that will give us a clue to what you perhaps could improve on.
I must admit after doing box squats I am pretty certain I was not reaching full squat depth at 495 but I did do a box squat of 405 and I still cant dead over 315 lbs without my lowback getting fried. Now if a box squat of 405 isnt low enough to prove my point I dont know what else I can do I put 8/45lb plates on a 45lb bar as low as possible on my traps sat fully back on the box then powered up for one full rep “Note bout busted a vein to get it but I got it”
I have been wanting to increase my deadlifts specifically lately. One of the things I was finding was that my lower-back was failing before the rest of my body. I started doing Rack Pulls and my lifts are way way up now. I just focused on Rack Pulls for a while and now my lower back is much stronger and consequently my deadlifts are better. For me, the rack pulls just allow me to focus on my lower back and it also works my upper mid back and traps some.
Everyone seems to recommend Good Mornings. I have been wanting to add these to my routine to increase lower back strength.
To everyone who recommended Good Mornings: What type of Good Mornings are best to bring up lower back strength for the deadlift? (stance, bar position, back position, reps…)
corkster,
that still does not tell me anything. how tall of a box were you using? a “box” does not have universal dimnensions. IF it was below parallel, then a 405 box squat probably equats to a 495 free squat, as they are much tougher(i could do a low box squat with 510 when i squated 640 in competition), i stress that IF the box height was below parallel. if you are using a typical gym flat bench as a “box” i can tell you for a fact(cause we are the same height) that you are NOT below parallel, probably 1-1.5" above.
for me(and i know everybody is different) for every inch in height of m i could add about 10% to my max off that box.
again, i recomend you take the camera you used for the pic of you flexing for us to the gym, and get some pics of your squat at bottom position and your deadlift starting position, that may help us help you.
good luck, and keep training hard you big strong old bastard you…
heavy;)
If you are 46, and only been lifting for 18 months and can true squat almost 500 lbs then I say you are a bad motherfucker and should just keep doing what you have been doing and don’t worry. Where did all that strength come from?
Appreciate all the input, and heavy i noticed the bench is not below parallel but equal to parallel need to borrow that camera again i guess. Anyways after attempting 495 squat to the flat bench Re Injured my back again !!! So this Old Fart is about to throwin the towel on the Heavy’s seems like my body is sayin “Dam Thats Enough” Guess Ill wuss out and stick to leg press. Lookout Leg Press !!!
Oh and reply to Tinman “Daddy Was A Short Strong Caveman” just have that body type easy muscle gains easy fat gains. No juice or anything cant afford them being a poor ole blue collar dude in Oklahoma, Or i would most assuredly take gallons…I just Love the challenge of getting that next 5 or 10 lbs gets me up in the mornings…Sick Huh ! I have no life Eat - Work - Lift
Good mornings, reversehypers, different bar good mornings, etc. You’re lower back is weak. Box squats will also help.
A for instance I’m hovering around a 285-290 supended safety squat bar good morning witha low to mid 500 max deadlift. Your good morning goes up, your deadlift will be up.
